The Gifts

[Abiding]

1.) Define "Spirituals".1 Cor 12:1 3rd word
you can look it up.

2.) Is it a doctrine of men to use the gifts as they are intended?Why ask this
silly question? if it for sarcasm...then i like it. If your serious, its a complex prayer can cure.

3.) In what way do we test every spirit?Is this an admission that you do not know?
Im thinking this is a possibilty, since it seems by the whole thread that you may not understand discernment.

4.) Who is spiritual and who is not? (as to judge one another)All believers are to be bereans acts17:11. All believers have the anointing 1John 2:27. All judge Phil 1:9 Heb 5:13-14......

5.) And once again, not everyone is given the gift of discernment. Who then can say that they can ''discern'' everything? This is often used as a tactic to call out folks, instead of the edification that the gifts are given for.

You have my avoided my question since the beginning, by merely asking questions. This paragraph, shows not so much any logic, or scriptural truth. But mostly murmer.
Discernment is a duty and command for every believer to get and use.

Ill ask the third time: do all spirituals have to be within the grounds of scripture? and be tested by it?
By the way I dont think you know what it means or how to test the spirits.

I agree with you im sure by the way that some who say they can "discern" are surely in the wacky group of so called gift bearers. Not that there isnt a unction of the Holyspirit to give any believer at any time He will to have a judgement on something. The same Spirit requires it to be tested. Warm feelings, and selfasurance, is not a test.

you keep saying gifts. Very confusing, what exactly are you talking about? The gift of Mercy? the gift of administrations? the gift of helps? there are many gifts. Is someone calling out foul on someone with
the gift of mercy?

 

[jkalyna]

Id like to point out(see above) that there are many gifts. Everyone is given them and they very much are needed.
Each of us has something divinely given for the other. That why gathering with other saints is so
essential for us for our health.

I think at times when people think of gifts they are really talking about the manifestations of the Holyspirit.
Which these days is misunderstood by many. Which is too bad. Ignorance in these is exactly why Paul wrote on them
so we wouldnt be ignorant.

But we surely all have special gifts. And to not use them is to withhold what you have been given to
nourish another. Sign gifts may have a purpose but those who seek after signs I believe are missing
out of the major purpose of gifts in general which is to edify the body and increase itself in love, of which
the majority of the gifts are not seen but provided through each of us in fellowship. And normally is promoted
from our sense of love and esteem for others.

HAVE U CONSIDERED WRITING A BOOK?

 

[jkalyna]

You have my avoided my question since the beginning, by merely asking questions. This paragraph, shows not so much any logic, or scriptural truth. But mostly murmer.
Discernment is a duty and command for every believer to get and use.

Ill ask the third time: do all spirituals have to be within the grounds of scripture? and be tested by it?
By the way I dont think you know what it means or how to test the spirits.

I agree with you im sure by the way that some who say they can "discern" are surely in the wacky group of so called gift bearers. Not that there isnt a unction of the Holyspirit to give any believer at any time He will to have a judgement on something. The same Spirit requires it to be tested. Warm feelings, and selfasurance, is not a test.

you keep saying gifts. Very confusing, what exactly are you talking about? The gift of Mercy? the gift of administrations? the gift of helps? there are many gifts. Is someone calling out foul on someone with
the gift of mercy?

THANK GOODNESS ADMIN DOSN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL THIS PAPER

 

[Messenger_T]

Abiding,

Why are you taking this so personally?

I do not understand what you mean by ''logic''?

AND scriptural truth is what I am trying to discuss without it getting personal by calling it ''murmuring''.
Why do you feel you need to say this? I am not therefore oogical, seeking scriptural truth and just murmering?

And yes I now what it says in 1 Cor 12:1. But it is talking about the spiritual gifts. I was referring to what you believe ''spirituals'' (the people) are?

And I am NOW asking ''silly'' questions?

Concerning testing every spirit: I am not admitting I do not know. I am asking YOU what it means?

Discernment: I know what discernment is and I know what it isn't. I do know that not everyone has the discernment of spirits. (1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues

I know that to test the spirits are to test the message that peple are bringing against God's Word. And since not everyone has the gift of discernment in scripture; then to say that EVERYONE is called upon to test every spirit MUST be by something else. SO I look to: (Acts 17:10-11
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.)

It is knowledge that we test the spirits as to whether or not what someone is telling us is the truth.

AND also to: 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

So then EVERYONE must either have the gift of discernment OR they must know scripture inside and out in order to be able to ''test the spirits''. If they do not they they are only testing them against what they know or by what GOD is giving them in understanding.

ALSO in 1 COrinthians 13 it says we know in part and we prophecy in part. This means EVEN with discernment we do nto KNOW everything. And to cast people down for lack of knowledge is hypocritcal at best since NO ONE knows everything of GOD and what HE usesfor His people in their gifts or their knowledge.

YES I understand what it means (SCRIPTURALLY for discernment).


THE PASSAGE in Phillipians 1 is about Paul writing to Paul and Timothy and it goes on to say WHAT they are to JUDGE: And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
It is talking about suffering for GOD's sake and to further the things that are GOOD and to continue the ministry. And be prepared for what is to come because you DO.

AND when you say ''spirituals'' I am referring to the PEOPLE and not the gifts. Are there any ''spirituals'' that have gifts or do you consider ''spirituals'' ALL false (Concerning speaking in ttongues, discernment, etc.)?

YOUR QUESTION: ''Ill ask the third time: do all spirituals have to be within the grounds of scripture? and be tested by it?''
Yes EVERYONE (NOT JUST ''spirituals'') have to be within the ''bounds of scripture''. This means that ANYONE who wants to test the spirits (as explained above) is called upon to do so within the scope of their gift of discernment from God OR thier knowledge as they have gained from study etc. from scripture. And as 1 Cor 13 says NO ONE knows it all or has ALL prophecy. So to call out people with this limited knowledge (as scripture says) calls for us to look at the passage about the splinter vs the timber in our eyes to one another.

I am speaking to the gifts as scripture defines:

1 Corinthians 12:28-31

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Romans 12:3-8



3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (I like this one.)
4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.


1 Corinthians 12:4-11



4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.






There is something in scripture call ''ehortation'':

Definition of EXHORTATION

An act or instance of exhorting

Language intended to incite and encourage

This is what we are ALL called on to do. Not try to cast others down by inciting the call to call out ''false spirituals''. BUT, to teach, to learn, to encourage, to worship, to help, to love etc. ALL the things PLUS the fruits of the Spirit as described Galatians. For if those fruits are not present then we are not Walking in the SPirit as Paul ealso explained in the very same chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:25

One Body with Many Members

25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. (This care is what 1 Cor 13 is explaining. And in explaining what love is is EVERY single fruit of the Holy SPirit as it is exhibited in us. Let us ALSO Walk in the Spirit.



And once again, only SOME people are given the gift of the discerning of spirits. And we are all called upon to ''study to show ourselves approved''. BUT not everyone has the gift of discernment and not everyone knows EVERYTHING there is to know about scripture and about God.

So until EVERYONE knows everything and EVERYONE has the gift of discernment (which is not scriptural) then we should seek to LOVE one another in teaching and learning TOGETHER, rather than casting down folks who ONLY seek the truth of GOD. The truth is either given by God or it is learned and given in FAITHFUL following of God and His Word as we know it. NOT in opinion or our OWN understanding.

 

[Crossfire]

Abiding,

Why are you taking this so personally?

I do not understand what you mean by ''logic''?

AND scriptural truth is what I am trying to discuss without it getting personal by calling it ''murmuring''.
Why do you feel you need to say this? I am not therefore oogical, seeking scriptural truth and just murmering?

And yes I now what it says in 1 Cor 12:1. But it is talking about the spiritual gifts. I was referring to what you believe ''spirituals'' (the people) are?

And I am NOW asking ''silly'' questions?

Concerning testing every spirit: I am not admitting I do not know. I am asking YOU what it means?

Discernment: I know what discernment is and I know what it isn't. I do know that not everyone has the discernment of spirits. (1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues

I know that to test the spirits are to test the message that peple are bringing against God's Word. And since not everyone has the gift of discernment in scripture; then to say that EVERYONE is called upon to test every spirit MUST be by something else. SO I look to: (Acts 17:10-11
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.)

It is knowledge that we test the spirits as to whether or not what someone is telling us is the truth.

AND also to: 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

So then EVERYONE must either have the gift of discernment OR they must know scripture inside and out in order to be able to ''test the spirits''. If they do not they they are only testing them against what they know or by what GOD is giving them in understanding.

ALSO in 1 COrinthians 13 it says we know in part and we prophecy in part. This means EVEN with discernment we do nto KNOW everything. And to cast people down for lack of knowledge is hypocritcal at best since NO ONE knows everything of GOD and what HE usesfor His people in their gifts or their knowledge.

YES I understand what it means (SCRIPTURALLY for discernment).


THE PASSAGE in Phillipians 1 is about Paul writing to Paul and Timothy and it goes on to say WHAT they are to JUDGE: And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
It is talking about suffering for GOD's sake and to further the things that are GOOD and to continue the ministry. And be prepared for what is to come because you DO.

AND when you say ''spirituals'' I am referring to the PEOPLE and not the gifts. Are there any ''spirituals'' that have gifts or do you consider ''spirituals'' ALL false (Concerning speaking in ttongues, discernment, etc.)?

YOUR QUESTION: ''Ill ask the third time: do all spirituals have to be within the grounds of scripture? and be tested by it?''
Yes EVERYONE (NOT JUST ''spirituals'') have to be within the ''bounds of scripture''. This means that ANYONE who wants to test the spirits (as explained above) is called upon to do so within the scope of their gift of discernment from God OR thier knowledge as they have gained from study etc. from scripture. And as 1 Cor 13 says NO ONE knows it all or has ALL prophecy. So to call out people with this limited knowledge (as scripture says) calls for us to look at the passage about the splinter vs the timber in our eyes to one another.

I am speaking to the gifts as scripture defines:

1 Corinthians 12:28-31

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Romans 12:3-8



3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (I like this one.)
4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
7Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.


1 Corinthians 12:4-11



4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.






There is something in scripture call ''ehortation'':

Definition of EXHORTATION

An act or instance of exhorting

Language intended to incite and encourage

This is what we are ALL called on to do. Not try to cast others down by inciting the call to call out ''false spirituals''. BUT, to teach, to learn, to encourage, to worship, to help, to love etc. ALL the things PLUS the fruits of the Spirit as described Galatians. For if those fruits are not present then we are not Walking in the SPirit as Paul ealso explained in the very same chapter.

1 Corinthians 12:25

One Body with Many Members

25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. (This care is what 1 Cor 13 is explaining. And in explaining what love is is EVERY single fruit of the Holy SPirit as it is exhibited in us. Let us ALSO Walk in the Spirit.



And once again, only SOME people are given the gift of the discerning of spirits. And we are all called upon to ''study to show ourselves approved''. BUT not everyone has the gift of discernment and not everyone knows EVERYTHING there is to know about scripture and about God.

So until EVERYONE knows everything and EVERYONE has the gift of discernment (which is not scriptural) then we should seek to LOVE one another in teaching and learning TOGETHER, rather than casting down folks who ONLY seek the truth of GOD. The truth is either given by God or it is learned and given in FAITHFUL following of God and His Word as we know it. NOT in opinion or our OWN understanding.

I pretty confident you will find your answer in post #7 of this thread. After you've been here a while, you get to know people and their beliefs.

 

[Relena7]

Why is it that people are so threatened by the mention of "gifts"? I thought it was in the bible that God wanted us to pray for them? =/

I don't see why this has to be a big controversy.

You can tell if someone is good or bad by their fruits, whether they've manifested their gift potential or not.