The God-Kind of Faith

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Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
13
18
#1
It seems that the Greek scholar that Hank Hanegraaff cited actually stated that the literal Greek for Mark 11:22 is "the God-kind of faith", but for some reason he left that out of his book Christianity in Crisis.

[video=youtube;9sUSggDq7Eo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sUSggDq7Eo[/video]​
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#2
Many Protestants today realize that Catholics adhere to the idea of salvation sola gratia (by grace alone), but fewer are aware that Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
Justification by Faith Alone
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#3
I love the work you do. Have you heard of the Concordant Literal Version (http://concordant.org/version/index.html)? I believe they use the same approach of contextual interpretation that was mentioned in your video. Would love to see you do something on their conclusion that the Greek aorist is indefinite (past-future) rather than simple past tense.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#4
I love the work you do. Have you heard of the Concordant Literal Version (http://concordant.org/version/index.html)? I believe they use the same approach of contextual interpretation that was mentioned in your video. Would love to see you do something on their conclusion that the Greek aorist is indefinite (past-future) rather than simple past tense.
that link I provided doesn't have a lot of meat. These are better:

The Concordant Method
The Vocabulary Method
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,073
13,083
113
58
#5
Many Protestants today realize that Catholics adhere to the idea of salvation sola gratia (by grace alone), but fewer are aware that Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
Justification by Faith Alone
If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,297
6,590
113
#6
Many Protestants today realize that Catholics adhere to the idea of salvation sola gratia (by grace alone), but fewer are aware that Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
Justification by Faith Alone

May I suggest you read the 5th Chapter of Romans?
 

epostle

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2015
660
15
18
#7
If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your exact answer?
Admission into heaven does not depend on an answer He would already know. Assurance of salvation is not taught in the Bible. That's what you are getting at. It is a reformist invention. It is a red herring to the topic and proves you did not read my link.

May I suggest you read the 5th Chapter of Romans?
I have. Several times. May I suggest you read James 2?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,318
26,345
113
#8
Assurance of salvation is not taught in the Bible.
You need to read the Bible. 1 John 5:13

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,318
26,345
113
#9
It is a reformist invention.
LOL. Is that what you say to anything you don't like? Whenever the evidence of history disagrees with your Roman Catholic opinion, you claim some protestant invention.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,073
13,083
113
58
#10
Admission into heaven does not depend on an answer He would already know.
Of course Jesus already knows who is going to heaven. The reason I asked you that question was to see exactly what you are trusting in to save you/what you have placed your faith in for salvation. Your answer to my question will demonstrate this.

Assurance of salvation is not taught in the Bible. That's what you are getting at. It is a reformist invention. It is a red herring to the topic and proves you did not read my link.
Assurance of salvation is clearly taught in the Bible. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. I've read your link and nothing that Jimmy Akin had to say was anything new or enlightening.

I have. Several times. May I suggest you read James 2?
James 2:24 has to be the most misunderstood verse in the Bible. This verse is misinterpreted by Roman Catholics, Mormons and those who attend the church of Christ. In the first place, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. *In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *Please listen closely - *James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

The harmony of Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 4:2-6; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,999
927
113
#11
Of course Jesus already knows who is going to heaven. The reason I asked you that question was to see exactly what you are trusting in to save you/what you have placed your faith in for salvation. Your answer to my question will demonstrate this.

Assurance of salvation is clearly taught in the Bible. 1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. I've read your link and nothing that Jimmy Akin had to say was anything new or enlightening.

James 2:24 has to be the most misunderstood verse in the Bible. This verse is misinterpreted by Roman Catholics, Mormons and those who attend the church of Christ. In the first place, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. *In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *Please listen closely - *James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

The harmony of Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 4:2-6; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do. Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
Sure true, Christ nailed it to the cross! To add, as per context on James is about "Vain man" .

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man,...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#12
Many Protestants today realize that Catholics adhere to the idea of salvation sola gratia (by grace alone), but fewer are aware that Catholics do not have to condemn the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
Justification by Faith Alone
May I suggest you read the anathemas from the Council of Trent.
 

Lancelot

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2015
168
13
18
#13
I love the work you do. Have you heard of the Concordant Literal Version (http://concordant.org/version/index.html)? I believe they use the same approach of contextual interpretation that was mentioned in your video. Would love to see you do something on their conclusion that the Greek aorist is indefinite (past-future) rather than simple past tense.
Thanks for your support. I'm not a Greek scholar, so that task may be beyond my paygrade. I'm just a guy trying to clear up some misconceptions created by (hopefully) well-meaning apologists about what I believe. I subscribe to the view that God does have faith, because God's Word is the object of faith and He has faith in His Words. That would explain why the fig tree died when Jesus cursed it, how the heavens and earth (the universe) came into being, and the waves of the sea stopped where He told them to stop.