THE GOSPEL

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
K

Kaycie

Guest
#21
Again, the gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16).

The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish (including water baptism) as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who BELIEVE (trust) in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation.

Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality. Water baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual transformation and relation to Christ attained before the baptism. A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

The gospel is not "water baptized or condemned." Don't be deceived by the church of Christ. We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Those who refuse to BELIEVE the gospel have not obeyed the gospel.

Those who truly BELIEVE the gospel can certainly say this (Romans 1:16; 3:24-26). Praise God! :)
You must obey the gospel, not just believe (Mark 16:16). If simply believing was obeying, then that would mean that you are saved before baptism, and if that were the case, that would mean that baptism does not save, and if that were the case, then God is made out to be a liar when He says "Baptism doth also now save you- not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clear conscience towards God."
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#22
In Colossians 2:11,12 God performs spiritual circumcision when? When we are baptized into Christ.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#23
You must obey the gospel, not just believe (Mark 16:16). If simply believing was obeying, then that would mean that you are saved before baptism, and if that were the case, that would mean that baptism does not save, and if that were the case, then God is made out to be a liar when He says "Baptism doth also now save you- not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clear conscience towards God."
This man was never baptized so it punches a giant hole in what you're saying. Did Jesus lie to him? Oops.

Luke 23
[SUP]39 [/SUP]One of the criminals who were hanged there was [SUP][a][/SUP]hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the [SUP][b][/SUP]Christ? Save Yourself and us!” [SUP]40 [/SUP]But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? [SUP]41 [/SUP]And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving [SUP][c][/SUP]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come [SUP][d][/SUP]in Your kingdom!” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

--

Ephesians 2
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

--

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all (like the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43). A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).

Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting-wet part that saves but is the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.

An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'

"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”

Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#24
This man was never baptized so it punches a giant hole in what you're saying. Did Jesus lie to him? Oops.

Luke 23
[SUP]39 [/SUP]One of the criminals who were hanged there was [SUP][a][/SUP]hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the [SUP][b][/SUP]Christ? Save Yourself and us!” [SUP]40 [/SUP]But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? [SUP]41 [/SUP]And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving [SUP][c][/SUP]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come [SUP][d][/SUP]in Your kingdom!” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

--

Ephesians 2
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

--

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all (like the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43). A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).

Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting-wet part that saves but is the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.

An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'

"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”

Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?
The thief on the cross was under the old covenant. Christ's church, and the way into it, had not been established yet.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#25
This man was never baptized so it punches a giant hole in what you're saying. Did Jesus lie to him? Oops.

Luke 23
[SUP]39 [/SUP]One of the criminals who were hanged there was [SUP][a][/SUP]hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the [SUP][b][/SUP]Christ? Save Yourself and us!” [SUP]40 [/SUP]But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? [SUP]41 [/SUP]And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving [SUP][c][/SUP]what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” [SUP]42 [/SUP]And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come [SUP][d][/SUP]in Your kingdom!” [SUP]43 [/SUP]And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

--

Ephesians 2
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

--

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Those who believe that baptism is required for salvation are quick to use 1 Peter 3:21 as a “proof text,” because it states “baptism now saves you.” Was Peter really saying that the act of being baptized is what saves us? If he were, he would be contradicting many other passages of Scripture that clearly show people being saved (as evidenced by their receiving the Holy Spirit) prior to being baptized or without being baptized at all (like the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43). A good example of someone who was saved before being baptized is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. We know that they were saved before being baptized because they had received the Holy Spirit, which is the evidence of salvation (Romans 8:9; Ephesians 1:13; 1 John 3:24). The evidence of their salvation was the reason Peter allowed them to be baptized. Countless passages of Scripture clearly teach that salvation comes when one believes in the gospel, at which time he or she is sealed “in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Ephesians 1:13).

Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.” While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting-wet part that saves but is the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.

An excellent explanation of this passage is given by Dr. Kenneth Wuest, author of Word Studies in the Greek New Testament. “Water baptism is clearly in the apostle's mind, not the baptism by the Holy Spirit, for he speaks of the waters of the flood as saving the inmates of the ark, and in this verse, of baptism saving believers. But he says that it saves them only as a counterpart. That is, water baptism is the counterpart of the reality, salvation. It can only save as a counterpart, not actually. The Old Testament sacrifices were counterparts of the reality, the Lord Jesus. They did not actually save the believer, only in type. It is not argued here that these sacrifices are analogous to Christian water baptism. The author is merely using them as an illustration of the use of the word 'counterpart.'

"So water baptism only saves the believer in type. The Old Testament Jew was saved before he brought the offering. That offering was only his outward testimony that he was placing faith in the Lamb of God of whom these sacrifices were a type....Water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer's inward faith. The person is saved the moment he places his faith in the Lord Jesus. Water baptism is the visible testimony to his faith and the salvation he was given in answer to that faith. Peter is careful to inform his readers that he is not teaching baptismal regeneration, namely, that a person who submits to baptism is thereby regenerated, for he says, 'not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.' Baptism, Peter explains, does not wash away the filth of the flesh, either in a literal sense as a bath for the body, nor in a metaphorical sense as a cleansing for the soul. No ceremonies really affect the conscience. But he defines what he means by salvation, in the words 'the answer of a good conscience toward God," and he explains how this is accomplished, namely, 'by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,' in that the believing sinner is identified with Him in that resurrection.”

Part of the confusion on this passage comes from the fact that in many ways the purpose of baptism as a public declaration of one’s faith in Christ and identification with Him has been replaced by “making a decision for Christ” or “praying a sinner’s prayer.” Baptism has been relegated to something that is done later. Yet to Peter or any of the first-century Christians, the idea that a person would confess Christ as his Savior and not be baptized as soon as possible would have been unheard of. Therefore, it is not surprising that Peter would see baptism as almost synonymous with salvation. Yet Peter makes it clear in this verse that it is not the ritual itself that saves, but the fact that we are united with Christ in His resurrection through faith, “the pledge of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 3:21).

Therefore, the baptism that Peter says saves us is the one that is preceded by faith in the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that justifies the unrighteous sinner (Romans 3:25-26; 4:5). Baptism is the outward sign of what God has done “by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5).

Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?
When we get baptized God does the work, not us. He performs spiritual circumcision of the heart (Colossians 2:11,12). Our obedience does not earn our salvation, but God only gives the gift of salvation to those who obey Him.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#26
When we get baptized God does the work, not us. He performs spiritual circumcision of the heart (Colossians 2:11,12). Our obedience does not earn our salvation, but God only gives the gift of salvation to those who obey Him.
I'm not opposed to baptism. Think we should be. But obedience follows saving faith. When you've added a work to the condition of salvation, you nullify grace.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,999
927
113
#27
The Gospel is both the Person of Christ and His works. In salvation, a sinner both received and believed the Person of Christ and the His saving knowledge that Christ died, buried and that He was risen. No amount of good works to earn it. Jesus paid it all! Water Baptism does not save us. It only identifies us to Christ.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,999
927
113
#28
(I am mine no more, I am mine no more, I've been bought with Blood, I am mine no more.)
Oh, I like this one, we are bought with a price. It's the BLOOD of Jesus that still saves! There is Power in the Blood not in the tub:)
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
33
#29
Oh, I like this one, we are bought with a price. It's the BLOOD of Jesus that still saves! There is Power in the Blood not in the tub:)
Haha, good one. :p
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#30
The gospel


"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”


With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 2:36-40
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,069
13,082
113
58
#31
You must obey the gospel, not just believe (Mark 16:16).
As I showed you from Romans 10:16, we obey the gospel when we believe the gospel. Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. Notice that Paul did not say believes AND obey in Romans 1:16 as if obeying is something in addition to believing it.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

*If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If simply believing was obeying, then that would mean that you are saved before baptism,
We are saved BEFORE water baptism. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. *BEFORE WATER BAPTISM* Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"

Referring back to what took place here in Acts 10:43-47, we read in Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" *Notice they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (spiritual gift ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism.

and if that were the case, that would mean that baptism does not save, and if that were the case, then God is made out to be a liar when He says "Baptism doth also now save you- not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clear conscience towards God."
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the what saves you), but an appeal to God for a good conscience (that is, an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

The symbol and the reality are related and the symbol can be used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

So after reading ALL of 1 Peter 3:21 and not simply isolating the first part of the verse, we can see that we are not literally saved by the mechanical act of getting water baptized (not the removal of the dirt from the flesh) and God is not made out to be a liar. If we are not saved until after we are water baptized, then God is made out to be a liar in many many passages of Scripture in which He promises eternal life to those who simply BELIEVE. (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 1:13; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,069
13,082
113
58
#32
In Colossians 2:11,12 God performs spiritual circumcision when? When we are baptized into Christ.
When we are baptized into the body of Christ by ONE SPIRIT into ONE BODY (1 Corinthians 12:13). This is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism. Water baptism is the picture but not the reality. Notice in verse 11 - In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. *See Romans 2:29 - " ..circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit.."

Paul clearly teaches that what is signified in baptism (buried and raised with Christ) actually occurs "through faith." Christians are "buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead" (Colossians 2:12). Justification on account of union in Christ's death, burial and resurrection is brought about "through faith" - and is properly symbolized by dipping the new believer in and out of the water.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#33
I was taught that the Gospel is the teachings in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John - the life and teachings of Jesus Christ.
Those are the gospel's, not THE Gospel.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#34
You must obey the gospel, not just believe (Mark 16:16). If simply believing was obeying, then that would mean that you are saved before baptism, and if that were the case, that would mean that baptism does not save, and if that were the case, then God is made out to be a liar when He says "Baptism doth also now save you- not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clear conscience towards God."
All who believe have been baptised, whether they have been dunked or sprinkled with H2O or not.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#35
When we get baptized God does the work, not us. He performs spiritual circumcision of the heart (Colossians 2:11,12). Our obedience does not earn our salvation, but God only gives the gift of salvation to those who obey Him.
If man could have been obedient there would have been no need for Jesus to come, suffer and die for us. You're putting the cart before the horse.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
3,545
113
#36
They did not ask, what shall we do to be saved. Based on what they were just told they asked, what shall we do, where do we go from here? They were told to do what John the Baptist preached, repent and be baptized for remission of sins. Different that what Paul would preach.


Acts 16:30-33, "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." Paul preached to them, they believed and were saved, then they were baptized.


The gospel


"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."
When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”


With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 2:36-40
 

plaintalk

Senior Member
Jul 20, 2015
445
15
18
#37
I am new here and was wondering if the folks here know what the Gospel is. What is you version of the Gospel? We are told to preach the Gospel to the ends of the Earth. But, what is the Gospel?
The gospel is found in 1 Cor. 15: 1-4, Paul identifies it as the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord. God bless.