THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[kennethcadwell]

Well it don't matter if you break one you break them all...and you cant keep them most of the day and real good on sunday... What part of the royal law of love is hard for you? the part where you don't judge others by standards you cant keep?

It does matter because that is the reason the Holy Spirit was sent here to help us, to make us better and stronger in the faith so that we do not falter in keeping the commands. You would see what I already said on what commandments that was listed I still struggle with. Yet the Holy Spirit is still guiding me and making me stronger in those areas.

 

[Mitspa]

That which was done away refers to the Old Covenant, not the 10 Commandments. Compare Jer. 31:31-33 with Heb. 8:8-10 and you will see the same law is now in our HEARTS under the New Covenant. The law only changed to make it more difficult to keep in the Spirit, not the letter, by the GRACE that is JESUS, the empowerment to KEEP THE LAW.

So do you keep the law? or break it?

 

[authorgracebook]

Well said, Mitspa!

 

[Mitspa]

Im just trying to find one of you guys who keep saying they are under the law ...who keeps it? Seems all you guys do is break it? The sinners do that ! What have you guys got that they don't?

 

[Hizikyah]

How about you...what biblical standard do you keep...not break...keep? we know you are a sinner...so how can you judge others by a standard you do not keep?

Why do you like to condemn people? does it make you feel good?

Well it don't matter if you break one you break them all...and you cant keep them most of the day and real good on sunday... What part of the royal law of love is hard for you? the part where you don't judge others by standards you cant keep?

I know not all of that was to me, but you seem to be the one judging others.

calling a sin a sin is not judgement of a person, the day where people can't put a difference between right and wrong is called the mystery of iniquity...

 

[Mitspa]

It does matter because that is the reason the Holy Spirit was sent here to help us, to make us better and stronger in the faith so that we do not falter in keeping the commands. You would see what I already said on what commandments that was listed I still struggle with. Yet the Holy Spirit is still guiding me and making me stronger in those areas.

It don't matter if you break the law? wow is that just for you or everybody?

 

[Hizikyah]

Im just trying to find one of you guys who keep saying they are under the law ...who keeps it? Seems all you guys do is break it? The sinners do that ! What have you guys got that they don't?

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."

1 Yahchanan 2:3-5, "Now by this we do know that we know Him: If we keep His Laws (entole). He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His Law, in him truly is the love of Yahweh perfected: by this we know that we are in Him."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

What Laws was he talking about?

1 Yahchanan 2:7, "Brothers, I write no new Laws to you, but the old Laws which you had from the beginning: The old Laws are the Law which you had from the beginning."

 

[Mitspa]

I know not all of that was to me, but you seem to be the one judging others.

calling a sin a sin is not judgement of a person, the day where people can't put a difference between right and wrong is called the mystery of iniquity...

I want to know what biblical standard you keep...before you preach and teach to others?

are you a sinner? trying to teach others the law of God...you cant teach others the law you break...bankrobbers teach class on honesty

 

[kennethcadwell]

That which was done away refers to the Old Covenant, not the 10 Commandments. Compare Jer. 31:31-33 with Heb. 8:8-10 and you will see the same law is now in our HEARTS under the New Covenant. The law only changed to make it more difficult to keep in the Spirit, not the letter, by the GRACE that is JESUS, the empowerment to KEEP THE LAW.

Good post as that is the thing that people still have a hard time understanding is that the law that is written in our hearts is the 10 commandments that contains God's moral law and the two main ones that Jesus gave us. And by the two Jesus gave us, He says you will keep the rest of His commandments by those two. People want so hard to make the whole 613 old mosaic covenant laws still apply's, when they don't.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Im just trying to find one of you guys who keep saying they are under the law ...who keeps it? Seems all you guys do is break it? The sinners do that ! What have you guys got that they don't?

I keep the commandments ... All of them, including the " Great ones "

 

[Mitspa]

Good post as that is the thing that people still have a hard time understanding is that the law that is written in our hearts is the 10 commandments that contains God's moral law and the two main ones that Jesus gave us. And by the two Jesus gave us, He says you will keep the rest of His commandments by those two. People want so hard to make the whole 613 old mosaic covenant laws still apply's, when they don't.

What biblical standard do you keep? last time im asking...if you cant answer...you have NO Business trying to teach others anything... I account you a reprobate

 

[kennethcadwell]

It don't matter if you break the law? wow is that just for you or everybody?

Lord Jesus did not send His Holy Spirit here just to come in us, and let us continue to walk however they want to.
Jesus said I will send you a helper, for the purpose to make us better and stronger in the faith. And as He molds us we learn to cut off sin before it becomes full grown, and takes over our lives again to where we obey it instead of the Lord.

 

[Mitspa]

I keep the commandments ... All of them, including the " Great ones "

You don't break them? Or are your justified by faith in Christ and love as He has loved you?

 

[newbirth]

Not true

Obedience is a work.

if it is done out of love, and not expecting anything in return, it is a work of true righteousness.

if it is done to recieve something, it is a work which is not counted as grace but as debt, as Paul makes clear in romans 4.

God promised the HS to those who obey .....is it a sin to receive the HS...
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.




Christ offered one sacrifice for sin and is expecting...is he sinning???

Hebrews 10:12-14King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
if faith is the substance of things hoped for...and hope is expecting ....is faith sin
[h=2]Full Definition of HOPE[/h]intransitive verb
1
: to cherish a desire with anticipation <hopes for a promotion>

2
archaic : trust

transitive verb
1
: to desire with expectation of obtainment

2
: to expect with confidence : trust
— hop·er noun
— hope against hope : to hope without any basis for expecting fulfillment

 

[kennethcadwell]

What biblical standard do you keep? last time im asking...if you cant answer...you have NO Business trying to teach others anything... I account you a reprobate

See post #1104

 

[Mitspa]

Lord Jesus did not send His Holy Spirit here just to come in us, and let us continue to walk however they want to.
Jesus said I will send you a helper, for the purpose to make us better and stronger in the faith. And as He molds us we learn to cut off sin before it becomes full grown, and takes over our lives again to where we obey it instead of the Lord.

How can you tell others about Gods standards when you don't keep any yourself or don't seem to know what biblical standard you have? Do you just make the standards up as you go along?

 

[authorgracebook]

Thanks for liking this, Brainfreeze. Your brain is definitely not frozen and you have the mind of Jesus!

 

[Karraster]

Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If God has justified a man he is forever justified and nothing can separate him from Gods love...that sounds "saved" to me....

In case anyone reading here wants to know what the reference verse 36 truthfully means, it is taken from Psalms 44:22. In order to grasp it's relevance in this thread please read the whole chapter, and further references to that is readily found for those seeking to know.

 

[Brainfreeze]

You don't break them? Or are your justified by faith in Christ and love as He has loved you?

I myself am not justified through keeping them, because it's the Holy Spirit who helps me to do so.. by faith, that He is real, and that He is God, He forgave me giving me grace.. I still stumble, I'm not perfect... but I no longer live to sin, I live to serve Him, I don't live in hate, I live in love, I no longer live in pride, I live by humbleness and humility ...etc

 

[Hizikyah]

I want to know what biblical standard you keep...before you preach and teach to others?

are you a sinner? trying to teach others the law of God...you cant teach others the law you break...bankrobbers teach class on honesty

SO if I stole 1 time I can never tell anyone they should not steal?

Man... if that were true not a single person in the earth could say sin is bad, I bet satan would LOVE that...

What if stealing something had a terrible effect on me and those around me, and I wanted to share my story so others would not fall into the same pit?

9 Minutes Ago #1117
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/104615-great-debate-law-grace-56.html#post1821958

Psalm 119:142-144, "Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, because Your Law is the truth! Trouble and anguish have overtaken us, but Your Laws are our delights. The righteousness of Your testimonies is everlasting, giving us understanding, so we may live,"

Isayah 30:9-13, "That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of Yahweh; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (the Law) , and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Matt 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Who's doctrine was that in Matt 5:19?

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."