THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Mitspa]

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones

Why are so many in the church not seeing the promises of God when it comes to health and healing?
Because we have a bunch of unbiblical preachers ministering death and condemnation to them every week!

So if the preacher says we are doing a study on the Ten Commandments and not to set you free from them but to put you under them? He is basically ministering death to you...no wonder many are sick among you and fall asleep? You don't understand the Body of the Lord. That the law was only a shadow of His Body and it was nailed to His Cross!

 

[Mitspa]

No I did not... your purpose is wrong....you cannot use Rom3:19....because you are not under the law...you are dead...God already took care of that when he concluded all under sin...He placed the whole world under the law so that all may be guilty before him...

I think Romans 3:19 comes right before Romans 3:31....you cant understand 31 unless you read it in context

 

[newbirth]

I think Romans 3:19 comes right before Romans 3:31....you cant understand 31 unless you read it in context

either way you still try to void the law through faith..3:19 says the whole world is become under the law/ under sin... (that we may be saved by grace through faith in Christ...)...3:31 says we must not void the law simply because we have been saved by grace through faith in Christ...

 

[newbirth]

So if the preacher says we are doing a study on the Ten Commandments and not to set you free from them but to put you under them? He is basically ministering death to you...no wonder many are sick among you and fall asleep? You don't understand the Body of the Lord. That the law was only a shadow of His Body and it was nailed to His Cross!

if your preacher tells you that ...RUN.....that being said....If you are in Christ and you break the least of the commands or teach men to do so you shall not be guiltless...
it is like this the law of nature says you must breathe air to live and you cannot breathe under water you will drown.... but the law of scuba gear says you can breathe air under water and live...that does not void the law of nature....the minute you take off the scuba gear under water the law of nature is waiting to drown you...because you must breath air to live

 

[Mitspa]

either way you still try to void the law through faith..3:19 says the whole world is become under the law/ under sin... (that we may be saved by grace through faith in Christ...)...3:31 says we must not void the law simply because we have been saved by grace through faith in Christ...

No the law still has its place and its lawful use to make all flesh guilty before God and to bring all men to Christ...but its not for the righteous believer justified and alive in Christ. Its those who break the into parts to justify the flesh who are guilty of not keeping or upholding the law.

 

[Mitspa]

if your preacher tells you that ...RUN.....that being said....If you are in Christ and you break the least of the commands or teach men to do so you shall not be guiltless...
it is like this the law of nature says you must breathe air to live and you cannot breathe under water you will drown.... but the law of scuba gear says you can breathe air under water and live...that does not void the law of nature....the minute you take off the scuba gear under water the law of nature is waiting to drown you...because you must breath air to live

No one in Christ can break the law of Mose and only those who teach the love of Christ are teaching folks to keep the commandments through love.

 

[Mitspa]

Christ magnified the law to its true standard that if anyone broke any part of the law they was guilty of it all. That all might turn to Him and His Work on the Cross and with Him die to all confidence in the flesh through the law. Having died with Christ to the law we have peace with God with Him and are set free from the laws right to judge and condemn us as sinners. Rejoice and be glad He has fulfilled every jot and tittle!

 

[newbirth]

No the law still has its place and its lawful use to make all flesh guilty before God and to bring all men to Christ...but its not for the righteous believer justified and alive in Christ. Its those who break the into parts to justify the flesh who are guilty of not keeping or upholding the law.

a little leaven, leavens the whole lump...if you start in error ....who will believe the little truth that comes after? and if they believe all then you are guilty of teaching error...
...the law does not bring anyone to Christ.....the goodness of God brings us to repentance....that’s grace.....
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[h=1]John 12:31-33King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]31 [/SUP]Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]This he said, signifying what death he should die.

 

[newbirth]

No one in Christ can break the law of Mose and only those who teach the love of Christ are teaching folks to keep the commandments through love.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[newbirth]

Christ magnified the law to its true standard that if anyone broke any part of the law they was guilty of it all. That all might turn to Him and His Work on the Cross and with Him die to all confidence in the flesh through the law. Having died with Christ to the law we have peace with God with Him and are set free from the laws right to judge and condemn us as sinners. Rejoice and be glad He has fulfilled every jot and tittle!

that was always the standard of the law....a little leaven...
Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

 

[Kerry]

Can anyone name any biblical character that was able to keep the law Besides Jesus? I'm thinking not, I meant what law did Adam have, don't eat of the tree that is in the midst of the garden. Guess what he couldn't do it and we are his children and guess what, we can't do it.

 

[newbirth]

Can anyone name any biblical character that was able to keep the law Besides Jesus? I'm thinking not, I meant what law did Adam have, don't eat of the tree that is in the midst of the garden. Guess what he couldn't do it and we are his children and guess what, we can't do it.

ask Mitspa...

Originally Posted by Mitspa

No one in Christ can break the law of Mose and only those who teach the love of Christ are teaching folks to keep the commandments through love.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

We do not make void the Law. Rather, we leave the Law to where and whom the Law was given. To those who reject Grace.

We who are married to the One who was raised from the dead refuse to step foot in the house of the Law. To go to the House of the Law is to prove unfaithfulness to Him.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[Mitspa]

a little leaven, leavens the whole lump...if you start in error ....who will believe the little truth that comes after? and if they believe all then you are guilty of teaching error...
...the law does not bring anyone to Christ.....the goodness of God brings us to repentance....that’s grace.....
Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
John 12:31-33King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
[SUP]32[/SUP]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

[SUP]33 [/SUP]This he said, signifying what death he should die.

have you read the New Testament much?

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[newbirth]

We do not make void the Law. Rather, we leave the Law to where and whom the Law was given. To those who reject Grace.

We who are married to the One who was raised from the dead refuse to step foot in the house of the Law. To go to the House of the Law is to prove unfaithfulness to Him.

Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The law was given to the the children of Israel until Christ came...After the death of Christ God concluded all under sin/the law ...that all should be saved from the law/sin.....
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[newbirth]

have you read the New Testament much?

Ga 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

see how you do not understand scripture....Paul was referring to the law as the standard of God up until the advent of Christ...not that the law is a driving or pulling force bringing one to Christ...
[h=1]Galatians 3:20-24King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[Mitspa]

see how you do not understand scripture....Paul was referring to the law as the standard of God up until the advent of Christ...not that the law is a driving or pulling force bringing one to Christ...
Galatians 3:20-24King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

LOl ..so what does bring us to Christ mean? And only in light of our sin do we understand our need for a Savior.


Ro 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Here is the purpose of the law!

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

The law was given to the the children of Israel until Christ came...After the death of Christ God concluded all under sin/the law ...that all should be saved from the law/sin.....
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 3:9
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Are you clothed in Christ's righteousness?

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


The Law was not made for those who are in Christ. They are clothed in Christ's righteousness and have no need of the Law. To go to the Law while married to Christ is to commit spiritual adultery. Would you live in the house of another who is not your physical spouse? Why live in the house of the Law when you are married to the One who was raised from the dead?

 

[newbirth]

Are you clothed in Christ's righteousness?

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


The Law was not made for those who are in Christ. They are clothed in Christ's righteousness and have no need of the Law. To go to the Law while married to Christ is to commit spiritual adultery. Would you live in the house of another who is not your physical spouse? Why live in the house of the Law when you are married to the One who was raised from the dead?

bro you are jumping all over the place ..let us deal with one matter at a time...I am contending that the law does not bring anyone to Christ as in drawing or wooing...the law identifies sin....Christ is the one who draws us by his Spirit through preaching...Now look at your response to this comment...

The law was given to the the children of Israel until Christ came...After the death of Christ God concluded all under sin/the law ...that all should be saved from the law/sin.....

everything else was scripture...do you really think I should take your response seriously? it has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted...