The Immaculate Conception Error

[eternally-gratefull]

That's a self-righteous statement.

What part of you is holy that it goes to the Lord on its own steam without the resurrection?

Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord.

So ask him.

Again, if you read what I said, you go one place or the other.. Your spirit is either alive and goes to be with Christ, Or dead, and goes to the grave. (Hades)

No one earns the right to get to heaven or to have their souls made alive in Christ. God gives them that right.

John 1: [SUP]11 [/SUP]He came to His own,[SUP][c][/SUP] and His own[SUP][d][/SUP] did not receive Him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again:

Eph 2:5 "even when we were dead in trespasses, (God) made us (our corporate life) alive together with Christ"....

What does Paul mean by dead in trespasses? See verse 3: "fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind".

Note that in the spiritually dead the mind and flesh are in harmony.

"In Christ" our shared humanity from Adam was made spiritually alive. Christ is the 2nd Adam, therefore He is our corporate man. Hence He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned as we do....

Also read Col 2:13

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (God) has made (you, the life we share with Adam) alive together with Him (Christ)

Jesus was born spiritually alive, As adam was created spiritually alive, His spirit died when he sinned, He was not spiritually dead before the fall, or he could have no relationship with the god that created him.

Spiritual death is the seperation or barrier that seperates God and man, It is what must be broken, the cross did that, He died, so we may be born again, We, who were dead as a result of sin, were made alive in Him.

We do not make ourselves alive, God makes us alive.

 

[PaulMack]

Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

God chose us first!

We did not chose by ourselves to God, He chose us first.

 

[Cassian]

Roberth,

Eph 2:5 "even when we were dead in trespasses, (God) made us (our corporate life) alive together with Christ"....

I see your misunderstanding. At least you are consistant within a verse.
However the text is not referencing spiritual life but physical life. Through Adam all men were condemned to death. We sin through or are influenced by our mortal state. Christ by His Incarnation, assumed that same human nature and raised it with Himself at the resurrection.
Christ was NOT dead spiritually, but died a phyical death. This is the same life spoken of in Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:22, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14 and many more.

"In Christ" our shared humanity from Adam was made spiritually alive. Christ is the 2nd Adam, therefore He is our corporate man. Hence He was made spiritually alive at the incarnation. If not, He would have sinned as we do....

None of that follows. The whole context is physical not spiritual. Christ bore the very same nature that we have. He in His humanity is of the very same essence as Adam after the fall and as we are, having a mortal nature. Christ did not sin because He had the ability to NOT sin. Another part of the "not sinning" of Christ is that in the Incarnation, which is a mystery, but Christ in His humanity also willed perfectly, or submitted perfectly to the Divine Nature.

You are also conflating meanings here by incorrect usage of prepositions. We were not raised IN Christ, but with Christ, physically.
In the spiritual realm we participate in Christ's death and resurrection by baptism and thus are raised spiritually to be IN
Christ. Rom 6:3-6.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (God) has made (you, the life we share with Adam) alive together with Him (Christ)

again wrong status, it is physical, and misuse of preposition, with. Physically we are raised WITH Christ, spiritually we are raised in or INTO Christ.

I have no idea where you got this idea but it is entirely new to me. I have not heard of that understanding either in reading or on boards on the web. But to say the least, it is far from scriptural. It is a total misunderstanding.

 

[onlinebuddy]

Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

God chose us first!

We did not chose by ourselves to God, He chose us first.

I guess you have posted these verses to address my previous post.

Nevertheless, let me ask you a few questions:
What makes you think that God chose you to be saved and left others out, to be doomed, without even giving them a chance to respond to the Gospel of Jesus?

Are you saying that those he has chosen can never be lost?

 

[PaulMack]

God can see everything that will happen from the very beginning to the very end. God knows who will accept Him and who will reject Him.

To those who God knows will accept Him have then been predestined to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.

God has given everyone a chance to accept Him or reject Him! God did not leave anyone out. Look at Judas, God knew he would reject Him but yet He still chose him to be one of His disciples.

God reveals Himself to everybody and everybody is given the opportunity to accept or reject Him, nobody is left out.

To say others are doomed because they were not given a chance to respond to the Gospel of Salvation shows you really do not know God nor know what He says in the Scriptures.

By the very fact of creation everybody knows there is a God!

Read the Scriptures and you will see God has revealed Himself to everybody in the World, they are without excuse.

Romans 1:18-21
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

 

[wincam]

I guess you have posted these verses to address my previous post.

Nevertheless, let me ask you a few questions:
What makes you think that God chose you to be saved and left others out, to be doomed, without even giving them a chance to respond to the Gospel of Jesus?

Are you saying that those he has chosen can never be lost?

yes this is so and hence we should be overwhelmingly grateful in our worship and praise - the how and why of this has long since been overlooked and mostly lost and the original really good news has been watered down, diluted, mixed up, messed up, meddled with and no longer sounds or seems as good as it really is - stay awhile whilst it is recovered and rediscovered - wincam

 

[onlinebuddy]

To say others are doomed because they were not given a chance to respond to the Gospel of Salvation

There are some on this thread who are implying exactly this. I thought you were one of them.

 

[onlinebuddy]

yes this is so

What is so?
Are you say that some are predestined to be saved while others are predestined to be lost?Are you also saying, that those that are chosen, can never be lost?

 

[wincam]

There are some on this thread who are implying exactly this. I thought you were one of them.

how can this possibly be some may well ask - well imho the second coming for Christians will be the first coming of the saviour for the Jews and Muslims when He will be accepted as Lord and Saviour and every knee will bow and every tongue confess Him as such - btw we further have reincarnation to consider but not here and now - so what may seem wrong and impossible may not be so to the Lord but meanwhile let us thank and praise and worship Him as Christians - wincam

 

[Euphemia]

Muslims? Jesus will return to set His feet down on the Earth and His coming will cause rejoicing among those who will have received Him among the nations of the world---Jew and Gentile---especially Israel, according to the scriptures. But Muslims? Unless they are Muslims turned Christian, they will be destroyed at His coming.

how can this possibly be some may well ask - well imho the second coming for Christians will be the first coming of the saviour for the Jews and Muslims when He will be accepted as Lord and Saviour and every knee will bow and every tongue confess Him as such - btw we further have reincarnation to consider but not here and now - so what may seem wrong and impossible may not be so to the Lord but meanwhile let us thank and praise and worship Him as Christians - wincam