The Importance of Romans 11: 25-26

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T

texian

Guest
#1
Importance of Romans 11: 25-26

The dispensationalist theory that the physical Israelites who went into the apostasy
of the religion of the Pharisees and into Talmudic Judaism, and rejected Jesus Christ, and continue to do so
in this apostasy, will be saved as a house sometime in the future hinges to a great extent on their
view of Romans 11: 26, "All Israel shall be saved." But this is postphonement theology, and contradicts
many texts in the New Testament.

What postponement theology teaches is that at this point in time, the physical Israelites in apostate
religion and who continue to reject Christ are not the elect, not saved, but they will become the elect and
be saved sometime in the future, perhaps in the tribulation because of their flesh, their literal-physical DNA from Abraham. People who do not have that DNA are not allowed, in dispensationalist theory, to get a second chance sometime in the future if they die before accepting Christ. Individuals of physical Israel, in apostasy, can repent and turn from that false chosen people fleshly belief system and be saved. The false part of the dispensationalist postponement theory is that physical Israel as a house will be saved in the future.

This is leaning to man's own understanding (Proverbs 3: 5), and making this man-made prophecy specific by saying that in the tribulation all Jews then living will be saved, or many will be saved, is speculation and more leaning to man's own understanding without backing from scripture.

Some, who are not followers of dispensationalism have pointed out that
Paul teaches in Romans 2: 28-19, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 25-26
that there are two Israels. In One text Paul calls that Israel which
was in the religion of the Pharisees and Talmudic Judaism and who
rejected Christ, "Israel after the flesh." (I Corinthians 10: 18)

Since there was, after the coming of Christ and the Cross, an Israel
after the flesh, then there must also be an "Israel after the Spirit,"
or Israel born again in Jesus Christ (John 3: 1-6).

Paul expresses this thought in Romans 2: 28-29 in saying "For he is
not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which
is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
not of men, but of God. "

In Romans 9: 6-8 Paul says "Not as though the word of God hath taken
none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all
children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not
the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for
the seed."

And in Galatians 4: 25-26 he tells us that there are two Jerusalems,
one which now is and is in bondage with her children, and another
which is above, is free and is the mother of us all. Jerusalem, for
those following the literalist bent of dispensationalism is used as a
metaphor for Israel.

Then go on to Romans 11, where in verse 5 Paul points out that there
is a remnant according to the election of grace. That is, a small
number of those of physical Israel, the literal descendants of
Abraham, are elected to salvation. Those of physical Israel who
rejected Christ were
broken off. (Romans 11: 17,20)

Matthew 23: 38 says the house of physical Israel "...is left unto you
desolate." And Matthew 8: 11-12 says "And I say unto you, That many
shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham,
and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Following Romans 11: 5, that Israel which is the remnant is elected to
salvation, and Romans 11: 17, 20 says those who rejected Christ are
broken off, meaning they did not receive the election to salvation,
though individuals of Israel after the flesh could repent and be
transformed into Christians or Israel reborn in Christ. (Romans 11:
23)

Israel after the flesh as a house is desolate, and many are cast into
outer darkness. I Peter 2: 9 explains that "ye" are "...a chosen
generation, a holy nation, a peculiar people..." "Ye" are Christians,
not Israel after the flesh.

Now look at Romans 11: 25-26: "For I would not, brethren, that ye
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own
conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the
fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall
come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from
Jacob: "

Since Paul in Romans 2; 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 25-26
has taught that there is an Israel of the flesh which is no longer the
people of God and another Israel which is the people of God, then
which Israel is he talking about in Romans 11: 26?

In a spiritual sense there is only one Israel of God, only one saved
Israel, made up of former Jews and former Gentiles (Galatians 3:
28-29). And since there is only one saved Israel, there is only one
Israel, the "Israel of God of Galatians 6: 16." Paul had to have
some term to use to point to the Israelites who were broken off in
Romans 11. But there really are not two Israels of God, only one
fold (John 10: 16), and one Israel.

So, Romans 11: 26, "All Israel shall be saved," is not a prophecy, but is
a statement about who is that one saved Israel, that Paul calls the Remnant in
Romans 11: 5. That Remnant, from Isaiah 10: 22, was at the very start,
on the Day of Pentecost, made up entirely of former members of physical
Israel, but the former Gentiles were brought into that Remnant beginning with
Acts 10: 34-46 when Cornelius and his people were converted.

Romans 11: 25-26 is also a statement about what was happening at the time
Paul was writing to the Roman Christians, that blindness or hardness had happened to
a part of physical Israel at the time that many former Gentiles were being saved.
I know most translations have "until" the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, which
might be consistent with the view that this is a prophecy. But the Greek word,
achri, Strong's number 891, can mean either "the idea of a terminus of time, until, up to
..or while."

But to be consistent with Paul's teaching on there being one part of physical Israel who
now are Jews in the heart and in the spirit (Romans 2: 28-29) and another part which
are only outwardly "Jews," and are the children of the flesh, but not the children of God (Romans 9:
6-8) and that there is one part of physical Israel (called Jerusalem) which now is and is in bondage with
her children and another "Israel" (called Jerusalem too ) which is above, is free and is the mother of us
all (Galatians 4: 25-26), "All Israel" in Romans 11: 26 would be all Israel of the Remnant elected to salvation by grace. The fact that Paul uses the term "All Israel" would alert one that he is not
predicting that every person who has claimed to be an Israelite will be saved.

Since that Israel which is the Israel of God (Galatians 6: 16) are all
saved, then "all Israel shall be saved."

If you are saved then you are part of "all Israel," the Israel of God.

In I Corinthians 15: 23 Christ is said to be the first fruits, meaning
he was the first one of Israel transformed from a physical people
operating in the physical - physical circumcision, a physical seed
line from Abraham, a physical temple of God, etc - to a spiritual
people. There is one fold,(John 10: 16) one people of God, which is
now Israel reborn in Jesus Christ.

Now look at Revelation 2: 9:

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2: 9
"Thy" is the church at Smyrna.

A literalist, dispensationalist interpretation would say the Jews in
Revelation 2: 9 must be "All Israel," the Jews. That is, to a dispensationalist, those who say
they are Jews, but are not real Jews, are people who do not have the blood line from
Abraham. To a dispensationalist, a real Jew has to be
someone who has Abraham's literal-physical DNA.

But if we understand
what Paul taught in Romans 2: 28-29, we can see that those
who say they are Jews and are not really Jews in a spiritual way are
those who stick to the chosen people teaching, as literal descendants
of Abraham. Since Jews are, after the Cross and after the Day of
Pentecost, no longer outward Jews, but the real spiritual Jews are now
inward Jews, "circumcised" in the heart and in the spirit, and not of
the letter.

Those who say they are Jews but are not really Jews any more are said
to practice blasphemy.

And "...he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born
after the Spirit,even so its is now." Galatians 4: 29

In addition, the proxies for those born after the flesh oppose those
born after the Spirit, the Remnant of Israel today.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2
In Rom 11

1. Paul separates gentile and Isreal
2. Paul even separates isreal between saved Isreal and unsaved Isreal
3. Paul said both saved and unsaved Isreal living at one time will repent, and All Isreal will be saved.
4. He says when this will happen. When the blindness of Isreal has been removed, which will not occur until the time of the gentile has been fulfilled.
5. We are in the time of the gentile today. So one can not say that this has already happened, or will never happen.

One must separate Spiritual Isreal, where there is no nationality, And natural Isrteal, which was given a covenant to posses the land of Cannon.


 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#3
The question is who is Israel in the Bible today? Jesus is the true Israel and those who belong to Him belong to Israel.

Matthew 2:15
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Hosea 11:1

(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

To belong to Israel we need to belong to Christ. Anyone who does not belong to Christ does not belong to Israel.

Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 
T

texian

Guest
#4
Eternally Grateful has here expressed the dispensationalist, Christian Zionist or chosen people point of view while Laodicea has expressed an important part of the present Remnant of Israel viewpoint. It is very likely that these two opposing points of view will continue on.
 
Feb 23, 2011
1,708
13
0
#5
Importance of Romans 11: 25-26

The dispensationalist theory that the physical Israelites who went into the apostasy
of the religion of the Pharisees and into Talmudic Judaism, and rejected Jesus Christ, and continue to do so
in this apostasy, will be saved as a house sometime in the future hinges to a great extent on their
view of Romans 11: 26, "All Israel shall be saved." But this is postphonement theology, and contradicts
many texts in the New Testament.

What postponement theology teaches is that at this point in time, the physical Israelites in apostate
religion and who continue to reject Christ are not the elect, not saved, but they will become the elect and
be saved sometime in the future, perhaps in the tribulation because of their flesh, their literal-physical DNA from Abraham. People who do not have that DNA are not allowed, in dispensationalist theory, to get a second chance sometime in the future if they die before accepting Christ. Individuals of physical Israel, in apostasy, can repent and turn from that false chosen people fleshly belief system and be saved. The false part of the dispensationalist postponement theory is that physical Israel as a house will be saved in the future.

This is leaning to man's own understanding (Proverbs 3: 5), and making this man-made prophecy specific by saying that in the tribulation all Jews then living will be saved, or many will be saved, is speculation and more leaning to man's own understanding without backing from scripture.

Some, who are not followers of dispensationalism have pointed out that
Paul teaches in Romans 2: 28-19, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 25-26
that there are two Israels. In One text Paul calls that Israel which
was in the religion of the Pharisees and Talmudic Judaism and who
rejected Christ, "Israel after the flesh." (I Corinthians 10: 18)

Since there was, after the coming of Christ and the Cross, an Israel
after the flesh, then there must also be an "Israel after the Spirit,"
or Israel born again in Jesus Christ (John 3: 1-6).

Paul expresses this thought in Romans 2: 28-29 in saying "For he is
not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which
is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that
of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is
not of men, but of God. "

In Romans 9: 6-8 Paul says "Not as though the word of God hath taken
none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all
children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not
the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for
the seed."

And in Galatians 4: 25-26 he tells us that there are two Jerusalems,
one which now is and is in bondage with her children, and another
which is above, is free and is the mother of us all. Jerusalem, for
those following the literalist bent of dispensationalism is used as a
metaphor for Israel.

Then go on to Romans 11, where in verse 5 Paul points out that there
is a remnant according to the election of grace. That is, a small
number of those of physical Israel, the literal descendants of
Abraham, are elected to salvation. Those of physical Israel who
rejected Christ were
broken off. (Romans 11: 17,20)

Matthew 23: 38 says the house of physical Israel "...is left unto you
desolate." And Matthew 8: 11-12 says "And I say unto you, That many
shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham,
and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer
darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Following Romans 11: 5, that Israel which is the remnant is elected to
salvation, and Romans 11: 17, 20 says those who rejected Christ are
broken off, meaning they did not receive the election to salvation,
though individuals of Israel after the flesh could repent and be
transformed into Christians or Israel reborn in Christ. (Romans 11:
23)

Israel after the flesh as a house is desolate, and many are cast into
outer darkness. I Peter 2: 9 explains that "ye" are "...a chosen
generation, a holy nation, a peculiar people..." "Ye" are Christians,
not Israel after the flesh.

Now look at Romans 11: 25-26: "For I would not, brethren, that ye
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own
conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the
fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall
come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from
Jacob: "

Since Paul in Romans 2; 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 25-26
has taught that there is an Israel of the flesh which is no longer the
people of God and another Israel which is the people of God, then
which Israel is he talking about in Romans 11: 26?

In a spiritual sense there is only one Israel of God, only one saved
Israel, made up of former Jews and former Gentiles (Galatians 3:
28-29). And since there is only one saved Israel, there is only one
Israel, the "Israel of God of Galatians 6: 16." Paul had to have
some term to use to point to the Israelites who were broken off in
Romans 11. But there really are not two Israels of God, only one
fold (John 10: 16), and one Israel.

So, Romans 11: 26, "All Israel shall be saved," is not a prophecy, but is
a statement about who is that one saved Israel, that Paul calls the Remnant in
Romans 11: 5. That Remnant, from Isaiah 10: 22, was at the very start,
on the Day of Pentecost, made up entirely of former members of physical
Israel, but the former Gentiles were brought into that Remnant beginning with
Acts 10: 34-46 when Cornelius and his people were converted.

Romans 11: 25-26 is also a statement about what was happening at the time
Paul was writing to the Roman Christians, that blindness or hardness had happened to
a part of physical Israel at the time that many former Gentiles were being saved.
I know most translations have "until" the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, which
might be consistent with the view that this is a prophecy. But the Greek word,
achri, Strong's number 891, can mean either "the idea of a terminus of time, until, up to
..or while."

But to be consistent with Paul's teaching on there being one part of physical Israel who
now are Jews in the heart and in the spirit (Romans 2: 28-29) and another part which
are only outwardly "Jews," and are the children of the flesh, but not the children of God (Romans 9:
6-8) and that there is one part of physical Israel (called Jerusalem) which now is and is in bondage with
her children and another "Israel" (called Jerusalem too ) which is above, is free and is the mother of us
all (Galatians 4: 25-26), "All Israel" in Romans 11: 26 would be all Israel of the Remnant elected to salvation by grace. The fact that Paul uses the term "All Israel" would alert one that he is not
predicting that every person who has claimed to be an Israelite will be saved.

Since that Israel which is the Israel of God (Galatians 6: 16) are all
saved, then "all Israel shall be saved."

If you are saved then you are part of "all Israel," the Israel of God.

In I Corinthians 15: 23 Christ is said to be the first fruits, meaning
he was the first one of Israel transformed from a physical people
operating in the physical - physical circumcision, a physical seed
line from Abraham, a physical temple of God, etc - to a spiritual
people. There is one fold,(John 10: 16) one people of God, which is
now Israel reborn in Jesus Christ.

Now look at Revelation 2: 9:

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan." Revelation 2: 9
"Thy" is the church at Smyrna.

A literalist, dispensationalist interpretation would say the Jews in
Revelation 2: 9 must be "All Israel," the Jews. That is, to a dispensationalist, those who say
they are Jews, but are not real Jews, are people who do not have the blood line from
Abraham. To a dispensationalist, a real Jew has to be
someone who has Abraham's literal-physical DNA.

But if we understand
what Paul taught in Romans 2: 28-29, we can see that those
who say they are Jews and are not really Jews in a spiritual way are
those who stick to the chosen people teaching, as literal descendants
of Abraham. Since Jews are, after the Cross and after the Day of
Pentecost, no longer outward Jews, but the real spiritual Jews are now
inward Jews, "circumcised" in the heart and in the spirit, and not of
the letter.

Those who say they are Jews but are not really Jews any more are said
to practice blasphemy.

And "...he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born
after the Spirit,even so its is now." Galatians 4: 29

In addition, the proxies for those born after the flesh oppose those
born after the Spirit, the Remnant of Israel today.
I always love your posts, Texian. Thanx. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
The question is who is Israel in the Bible today? Jesus is the true Israel and those who belong to Him belong to Israel.

Matthew 2:15
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Hosea 11:1

(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

To belong to Israel we need to belong to Christ. Anyone who does not belong to Christ does not belong to Israel.

Galatians 3:29
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Like the next guy said. we will not get anywhere.

Jesus said in his covenant with abraham. In you shall ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD BE BLESSED

In this aspect of the covenant comes salvation. COmes spiritual Isreal, And comes CHrist as savior for all mankind.

There is no Jew or gentile in this aspect. There never was, if it ever was, no Gentile could be saved. But ninevah ( a Gentile city) was saved, as was many gentiles. Why? they are the spiritual heirs of the promise, Abraham being their spiritual father.

You all however Ignore the rest of the covenant, Which has ONLY to do with Isreal.

To you and your decendents, in ever generation I give you this land as an ETERNAL COVENANT.

I can separate the two. Why can't you?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#7
Eternally Grateful has here expressed the dispensationalist, Christian Zionist or chosen people point of view while Laodicea has expressed an important part of the present Remnant of Israel viewpoint. It is very likely that these two opposing points of view will continue on.
I am not a Christian Zionist. What I believe has nothing to do with who gets saved or not. Salvation is not the issue, What is the issue is who is living in the promised land. Gentiles because Isreal is in sin, Or Isreal, because she has repented and been given back her land.

This part of the covenant never had a thing to do with salvation. Never has, never will, If it did, All of Isreal who ever lived in the land would have automatically been saved. This is not, nore has it ever been the case.

People want to make this a who is saved thing, when it never has been
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#8
Great post texian, when people keep things in context, the message is clear.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#9


You all however Ignore the rest of the covenant, Which has ONLY to do with Isreal.

To you and your decendents, in ever generation I give you this land as an ETERNAL COVENANT.

I can separate the two. Why can't you?
Because Abraham was looking to inherit the New earth with the New Jerusalem making inheriting the land of Canaan a type of the real inheritance.
 
F

feedm3

Guest
#10
Because Abraham was looking to inherit the New earth with the New Jerusalem making inheriting the land of Canaan a type of the real inheritance.
It seems many do not understand typology in the bible. I have been told I can't compare the physical with the spiritual several times on here. Good point you made
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#11
Because Abraham was looking to inherit the New earth with the New Jerusalem making inheriting the land of Canaan a type of the real inheritance.
Thats fine. But God did not promise his descendants to have a new earth or new jerusalem. He promised them the land of canaan. He even gave land boundaries of what they would own.

What your saying is that God does not keep his promise. If for any reason those who belong to the children of Isreal (physical) would happen to repent and admit they made a mistake God would not keep the promise he made to their fathers?

sorry, I can not see this. God never beaks his promises. especially when he made them unconditionally.