The Jefferson Bible.

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calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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lawton ok
#21
You better throw out all of the children's Bibles also because they leave out much detail and also puts the scriptures in very short sentences. Point is translations or study material that is Biblically accurate in lesson and thought like children's Bibles are just as helpful for the audience it is directed at. The Indians barely could speak English and was having to rewire centuries of pagan thought.

Your speaking of two translations ESV and NIV. Have you compared every translation, verse by verse to the original Hebrew and Greek? I doubt it, so to say those two are the most original translations in modern English is your opinion.

You mentioned the KJV but what about the great Bible or the Geneva Bible that came before the KJV? My cross translations of the KJV in my opinion isnt far off the original language. But if your fear is that it was printed under the command of King James then you need to start a cross examination of the Geneva Bible that came into formation as the reformation began to sweep across Europe.

But back on point. You haven't given me counter evidence to show my original comment was wrong. Instead you switched gears and decided to attack the idea that the Jefferson Bible wasn't in your mind what you would of gave the Indians.

You also make the claim that Barton is a crackpot with no supporting evidence.

So far you have many holes to plug in order to keep your thought afloat.
This is idotic. It had nothing to do with Native Americans or Children's Bibles which belong in the places meant to teach them. If a child should ask "What is adultery, fornication or homosexuality," I believe it is their parents job to decide when and if they are old enough to learn. If a native American should ask "what is a Jew or a gentile, can't I be saved?" It takes a non racist teacher with love in there hearts to break it down for them and reassure them that the Lord died for all, not just a few.

I respect Ben Shapiros intellect and I've listened to his debates and he makes a lot of sense. However e's as close to the ragged edge as Cenk Uygur just on the opposite side. This is a Christian site so I very strongly feel that the so called Jefferson bible has no more authority than Darwin's atheist propaganda. I'm just sounding the alarm that Jefferson's so called Bible isn't a bible at all. It's only bits and pieces of one occasionally used to support the nationalistic agenda that I, as a descendant of immigrants am offended by.

From World Magazine:
David Barton, president of the WallBuilders organization and a frequent guest on Glenn Beck's broadcasts, is one of America's most popular Christian history writers. Liberal critics have long accused Barton of misinterpretations and errors, and readers of the History News Network recently voted a new Barton book, The Jefferson Lies, as the "Least Credible History Book in Print." But now some conservative Christian scholars are publicly questioning Barton's work, too.

Jay W. Richards, senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, and author with James Robison of Indivisible: Restoring Faith, Family, and Freedom Before It's Too Late, spoke alongside Barton at Christian conferences as recently as last month. Richards says in recent months he has grown increasingly troubled about Barton's writings, so he asked 10 conservative Christian professors to assess Barton's work.

Their response was negative. Some examples: Glenn Moots of Northwood University wrote that Barton in The Jefferson Lies is so eager to portray Jefferson as sympathetic to Christianity that he misses or omits obvious signs that Jefferson stood outside "orthodox, creedal, confessional Christianity." A second professor, Glenn Sunshine of Central Connecticut State University, said that Barton's characterization of Jefferson's religious views is "unsupportable." A third, Gregg Frazer of The Master's College, evaluated Barton's video America's Godly Heritage and found many of its factual claims dubious, such as a statement that "52 of the 55 delegates at the Constitutional Convention were 'orthodox, evangelical Christians.'" Barton told me he found that number in M.E. Bradford's A Worthy Company.

Barton has received support from Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, and other political leaders. He questions how many of his new critics have actually read his work, especially The Jefferson Lies. Barton concedes that Jefferson doubted some traditional Christian doctrines, but argues that these doubts did not emerge until the last couple of decades of his life. He says that all of his books, including his latest, are fully documented with footnotes, and that critics who look at the original sources he is using often change their minds.


A full-scale, newly published critique of Barton is coming from Professors Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter of Grove City College, a largely conservative Christian school in Pennsylvania. Their book Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims about Our Third President (Salem Grove Press), argues that Barton "is guilty of taking statements and actions out of context and simplifying historical circumstances." For example, they charge that Barton, in explaining why Jefferson did not free his slaves, "seriously misrepresents or misunderstands (or both) the legal environment related to slavery."
In a response posted on the WallBuilders website, Barton says that Throckmorton and Coulter's book typifies attacks by "academic elitists" who position themselves as the "sole caretakers of historical knowledge." He contends that Throckmorton and Coulter are hostile toward his "personal religious beliefs." Barton also disputes several of their specific arguments. For instance, contrary to Getting Jefferson Right, Barton insists that Jefferson did not merely buy a copy but was an investor in a 1798 edition of the Bible, which reveals Jefferson's philosophical support for the sacred text.
Richards emphasizes that he and the scholars he consulted about Barton are politically conservative evangelicals or Catholics. They largely agree with Barton's belief that Christian principles played a major role in America's founding, but Richards argues that Barton's books and videos are full of "embarrassing factual errors, suspiciously selective quotes, and highly misleading claims."
Who is David Barton?
After receiving a bachelor's degree in religious education from Oral Roberts University in 1976, Barton worked for a time as a pastor and schoolteacher. In the late 1980s he began building a following among evangelicals and Republicans by tirelessly speaking on America's founding at churches and political conferences. WallBuilders has published most of Barton's books, but Thomas Nelson published The Jefferson Lies.
Barton gained new exposure in 2005 when Time named him as one of the 25 most influential American evangelicals. Then came his appearances on Glenn Beck, a May 2011 profile in The New York Times, and multiple interviews on Jon Stewart's The Daily Show. —Thomas Kidd
This article was originally posted online Aug. 7, 2012.


 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,642
4,431
113
65
lawton ok
#22
You also make the claim that Barton is a crackpot with no supporting evidence.
Wrong I said "crackpot nationalistic right wing fanatic" and I'm not a liberal. I'm a centrist. I voted for Jimmy Carter over Ronald Reagan, I would again!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,642
4,431
113
65
lawton ok
#23
I voted for Jimmy Carter over Ronald Reagan, I would again!
I take that back as I have sepperated from all political parties because I have come to believe that Power, fame and fortune are as corruptive and addictive as drugs and porn. Not everybody gets addicted but they don't have 'I a crook tattooed on their foreheads either so I just pick the issues I'm for or against and vote accordingly. The parties choose the candidates now days and I don't trust any of them.

I'd rather build bridges than walls!
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,642
4,431
113
65
lawton ok
#24
@Roughsoul1991 Suppose JFK created something like a missal, and put his name on it and called it a Bible, would you not object?
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Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,042
590
113
#26
This is idotic. It had nothing to do with Native Americans or Children's Bibles which belong in the places meant to teach them. If a child should ask "What is adultery, fornication or homosexuality," I believe it is their parents job to decide when and if they are old enough to learn. If a native American should ask "what is a Jew or a gentile, can't I be saved?" It takes a non racist teacher with love in there hearts to break it down for them and reassure them that the Lord died for all, not just a few.

I respect Ben Shapiros intellect and I've listened to his debates and he makes a lot of sense. However e's as close to the ragged edge as Cenk Uygur just on the opposite side. This is a Christian site so I very strongly feel that the so called Jefferson bible has no more authority than Darwin's atheist propaganda. I'm just sounding the alarm that Jefferson's so called Bible isn't a bible at all. It's only bits and pieces of one occasionally used to support the nationalistic agenda that I, as a descendant of immigrants am offended by.

From World Magazine:
David Barton, president of the WallBuilders organization and a frequent guest on Glenn Beck's broadcasts, is one of America's most popular Christian history writers. Liberal critics have long accused Barton of misinterpretations and errors, and readers of the History News Network recently voted a new Barton book, The Jefferson Lies, as the "Least Credible History Book in Print." But now some conservative Christian scholars are publicly questioning Barton's work, too.

Jay W. Richards, senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, and author with James Robison of Indivisible: Restoring Faith, Family, and Freedom Before It's Too Late, spoke alongside Barton at Christian conferences as recently as last month. Richards says in recent months he has grown increasingly troubled about Barton's writings, so he asked 10 conservative Christian professors to assess Barton's work.

Their response was negative. Some examples: Glenn Moots of Northwood University wrote that Barton in The Jefferson Lies is so eager to portray Jefferson as sympathetic to Christianity that he misses or omits obvious signs that Jefferson stood outside "orthodox, creedal, confessional Christianity." A second professor, Glenn Sunshine of Central Connecticut State University, said that Barton's characterization of Jefferson's religious views is "unsupportable." A third, Gregg Frazer of The Master's College, evaluated Barton's video America's Godly Heritage and found many of its factual claims dubious, such as a statement that "52 of the 55 delegates at the Constitutional Convention were 'orthodox, evangelical Christians.'" Barton told me he found that number in M.E. Bradford's A Worthy Company.

Barton has received support from Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, and other political leaders. He questions how many of his new critics have actually read his work, especially The Jefferson Lies. Barton concedes that Jefferson doubted some traditional Christian doctrines, but argues that these doubts did not emerge until the last couple of decades of his life. He says that all of his books, including his latest, are fully documented with footnotes, and that critics who look at the original sources he is using often change their minds.


A full-scale, newly published critique of Barton is coming from Professors Warren Throckmorton and Michael Coulter of Grove City College, a largely conservative Christian school in Pennsylvania. Their book Getting Jefferson Right: Fact Checking Claims about Our Third President (Salem Grove Press), argues that Barton "is guilty of taking statements and actions out of context and simplifying historical circumstances." For example, they charge that Barton, in explaining why Jefferson did not free his slaves, "seriously misrepresents or misunderstands (or both) the legal environment related to slavery."
In a response posted on the WallBuilders website, Barton says that Throckmorton and Coulter's book typifies attacks by "academic elitists" who position themselves as the "sole caretakers of historical knowledge." He contends that Throckmorton and Coulter are hostile toward his "personal religious beliefs." Barton also disputes several of their specific arguments. For instance, contrary to Getting Jefferson Right, Barton insists that Jefferson did not merely buy a copy but was an investor in a 1798 edition of the Bible, which reveals Jefferson's philosophical support for the sacred text.
Richards emphasizes that he and the scholars he consulted about Barton are politically conservative evangelicals or Catholics. They largely agree with Barton's belief that Christian principles played a major role in America's founding, but Richards argues that Barton's books and videos are full of "embarrassing factual errors, suspiciously selective quotes, and highly misleading claims."
Who is David Barton?
After receiving a bachelor's degree in religious education from Oral Roberts University in 1976, Barton worked for a time as a pastor and schoolteacher. In the late 1980s he began building a following among evangelicals and Republicans by tirelessly speaking on America's founding at churches and political conferences. WallBuilders has published most of Barton's books, but Thomas Nelson published The Jefferson Lies.
Barton gained new exposure in 2005 when Time named him as one of the 25 most influential American evangelicals. Then came his appearances on Glenn Beck, a May 2011 profile in The New York Times, and multiple interviews on Jon Stewart's The Daily Show. —Thomas Kidd
This article was originally posted online Aug. 7, 2012.


Literally in the preface of the Jefferson bible it says.

In 1803, while "overwhelmed with other busi- ness," Mr. Jefferson cut from the evangelists such passages as he believed would best present the eth- ical teaching of Jesus, and "arranged them, on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject." He called it "The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, extracted from the account of his life and doctrines, as given by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; being an abridgment of the New Testament for the use of the Indians, unembarrassed with mat- ters of fact or faith beyond the level of their compre- hension."



Your missing my example with children's bibles as you said anything but the full word of God is what should be considered worthy of our time. But children's Bibles just as the Jefferson bible isnt designed to a audience for full comprehension yet.



So you show Barton has critics, great now sort out what evidence are they disagreeing with and what evidence does Barton provide to support his claim. 90% of colleges have secular professors that also teach that most if not all of American founders are either deists, agnostic or atheist. Evidence is the only thing that matters. Evidence proves them wrong as you study the founders writings and actions. Just more secular propaganda.



If Jefferson twisted scripture then yes it should of been thrown out. Otherwise it is a book with the moral teachings of Jesus. Scriptures to help change the hearts of pagans so that they could be open to growing closer to Christ. Something worked because many Indian tribes became Christian and has Christian missionaries. A tool for one purpose at one time period. If we get technical then of course it wasn't the Bible but it was more of a summary bible.





Not sure what your offended by as nationalism or what a immigrant has to do with it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
3,042
590
113
#27
@Roughsoul1991 Suppose JFK created something like a missal, and put his name on it and called it a Bible, would you not object?
As I said most of your post was wrong as in the background information for the Jefferson's bible's creation and usage. But yes I agree it isnt a Bible by reference but actually named The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth. It has been nicknamed the Jefferson Bible.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
6,642
4,431
113
65
lawton ok
#28
Literally in the preface of the Jefferson bible it says.

In 1803, while "overwhelmed with other busi- ness," Mr. Jefferson cut from the evangelists such passages as he believed would best present the eth- ical teaching of Jesus, and "arranged them, on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject." He called it "The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth, extracted from the account of his life and doctrines, as given by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; being an abridgment of the New Testament for the use of the Indians, unembarrassed with mat- ters of fact or faith beyond the level of their compre- hension."



Your missing my example with children's bibles as you said anything but the full word of God is what should be considered worthy of our time. But children's Bibles just as the Jefferson bible isnt designed to a audience for full comprehension yet.



So you show Barton has critics, great now sort out what evidence are they disagreeing with and what evidence does Barton provide to support his claim. 90% of colleges have secular professors that also teach that most if not all of American founders are either deists, agnostic or atheist. Evidence is the only thing that matters. Evidence proves them wrong as you study the founders writings and actions. Just more secular propaganda.



If Jefferson twisted scripture then yes it should of been thrown out. Otherwise it is a book with the moral teachings of Jesus. Scriptures to help change the hearts of pagans so that they could be open to growing closer to Christ. Something worked because many Indian tribes became Christian and has Christian missionaries. A tool for one purpose at one time period. If we get technical then of course it wasn't the Bible but it was more of a summary bible.





Not sure what your offended by as nationalism or what a immigrant has to do with it.
Well I never taught my children fairy tales or fictionalized bible stories that's the mistake that the RCC made in order to win converts but never repented and corrected it's misrepresentation of scripture. Barton is more conservative than Ronald Regan ever was. Even Nancy Reagan thought Newt Gingrich was a joke when he canceled the Beach Boys concert at the national mall for the fourth of July and invited them to the White House Rose Garden.

Unbridled nationalism was the same madness that led to World War Two via Stalin, Hitler, Togo and Mussolini. It was the common sense of FDR and Churchill That stopped three of them. But rather than Ignore the poor or hand out checks for nothing. We can put them to work fixing the infrastructure and environmentally friendly energy systems. And education. Make a Public High School Diploma the equivalent of an AA degree. And improve the reading comprehension levels across the board. No nation ever existed for long without taxation but spend the tax money wisely and the working people who earn it will spend it happily and the overall standards of living will improve for the majority and so will our children, the economy and the environment.

If we close the border crossing points and harbors. Enforce the laws with an iron fist we will become just like our enemies.