The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

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G

GWH

Groovy
#541
Oct 19, 2024
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#541
Cameron143 said:
Post #533.
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Which stated, "The book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant."

Apparently you did not understand that "omega" signified the end of history, including the OC.

Continuing, "Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold."

Apparently you did not understand that "the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap" refers to what would unfold.

Okay, now that you understand we DO agree regarding the purpose of RV, please continue with your explanation of the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#542
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#542
GWH said:
Which stated, "The book of Revelation isn't that difficult if you understand that it is concerned with the end of the old covenant."

Apparently you did not understand that "omega" signified the end of history, including the OC.

Continuing, "Because God is gracious, He has the Apostle John write the book of Revelation so His people would be prepared for what was soon to unfold."

Apparently you did not understand that "the horror of the judgment that the enemies of God will reap" refers to what would unfold.

Okay, now that you understand we DO agree regarding the purpose of RV, please continue with your explanation of the imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20.
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We don't agree as to the purpose. Alpha and Omega refer to a person, not history. And Israel was the enemy being destroyed.
Have you ever read the parable in Matthew 21: 33-46. This is a synopsis of Jewish history. The book of Revelation answers the question in verse 40.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#543
Oct 19, 2024
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#543
Cameron143 said:
We don't agree as to the purpose. Alpha and Omega refer to a person, not history. And Israel was the enemy being destroyed.
Have you ever read the parable in Matthew 21: 33-46. This is a synopsis of Jewish history. The book of Revelation answers the question in verse 40.
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It seems that you like to quibble. A&O refers to Jesus embodying salvation history! And Christians are spiritual Israel, so the enemy being destroyed is the anti-Christ/s. It is true that the Jews who are anti-Christ are the subject of the parable in MT 21:33-46, but their destruction will be shared by Gentile anti-Christs (cf. RM 11:21).

If you are done stalling, how about answering MY question regarding the RV imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?
 
CS1

CS1

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#544
May 23, 2012
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#544
FYI, this is catholic doctrine and is false. Nothing of the catholic church today is even worth listening to. The pope is an open apostate of our faith. Period. and here on CC, that is not permitted. Due to the fact, you say in the thread title :

The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation


Is more than questionable.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#546
Mar 1, 2022
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#546
GWH said:
It seems that you like to quibble. A&O refers to Jesus embodying salvation history! And Christians are spiritual Israel, so the enemy being destroyed is the anti-Christ/s. It is true that the Jews who are anti-Christ are the subject of the parable in MT 21:33-46, but their destruction will be shared by Gentile anti-Christs (cf. RM 11:21).

If you are done stalling, how about answering MY question regarding the RV imagery: the four living creatures in 4:6, the seven spirits of God in 5:6, the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?
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I'm not quibbling. I posited at the outset that the purpose of the book of Revelation is important to understanding the imagery. Still I can point you to the source of the imagery.
Starting in 4:6 read Ezekiel 1 and share your thoughts.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#547
Oct 19, 2024
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#547
Cameron143 said:
I'm not quibbling. I posited at the outset that the purpose of the book of Revelation is important to understanding the imagery. Still I can point you to the source of the imagery.
Starting in 4:6 read Ezekiel 1 and share your thoughts.
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Okay, reading EZK 1: He had a vision of a windstorm and fire/light, in the center of which were four living creatures, each of which had four faces and four wings arranged in a square facing outward. Each face was human between the faces of a lion and an ox with faces of an eagle somewhere. Two wings spread out upward, and the other two went downward over its body. They moved in unison with the fiery spirit as lightning flashed among them. Beside each creature was a wheel intersecting another wheel. The rims of the wheels were full of eyes all around. The spirit made the creatures move laterally and upward. A vault stretched over the creatures, and the sound of their wings when they moved was like a roaring river, an army host, or the Almighty's voice. Above the vault was a throne, and on the throne was a man, whose waist glowed like brilliant metal or a rainbow. Upon seeing the likeness of the Lord, Ezekiel fell facedown to the ground and heard a voice speak.

This chapter's description is abbreviated in RV 4:6-8.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#548
Mar 1, 2022
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#548
GWH said:
Okay, reading EZK 1: He had a vision of a windstorm and fire/light, in the center of which were four living creatures, each of which had four faces and four wings arranged in a square facing outward. Each face was human between the faces of a lion and an ox with faces of an eagle somewhere. Two wings spread out upward, and the other two went downward over its body. They moved in unison with the fiery spirit as lightning flashed among them. Beside each creature was a wheel intersecting another wheel. The rims of the wheels were full of eyes all around. The spirit made the creatures move laterally and upward. A vault stretched over the creatures, and the sound of their wings when they moved was like a roaring river, an army host, or the Almighty's voice. Above the vault was a throne, and on the throne was a man, whose waist glowed like brilliant metal or a rainbow. Upon seeing the likeness of the Lord, Ezekiel fell facedown to the ground and heard a voice speak.

This chapter's description is abbreviated in RV 4:6-8.
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Good synopsis. So who or what are the four living creatures?
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#549
Oct 19, 2024
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#549
Cameron143 said:
Good synopsis. So who or what are the four living creatures?
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Well, they are called "cherubim" in EZK 9&10, and they served in the envisioned temple, giving hot coals to a man in linen (9:3&10:7). They resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory!"

RV 4:8 says that "Day and night the creatures never stop saying: Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was [alpha], who is [history] and who is to come [omega]." Their praise prompts twenty-four elders (commonly understood as the 12 tribes and 12 apostles) to worship the man on the throne (4:10-11) along with a host of angels who encircle the throne (5:11-14).
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#550
GWH said:
Well, they are called "cherubim" in EZK 9&10, and they served in the envisioned temple, giving hot coals to a man in linen (9:3&10:7). They resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory!"

RV 4:8 says that "Day and night the creatures never stop saying: Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was [alpha], who is [history] and who is to come [omega]." Their praise prompts twenty-four elders (commonly understood as the 12 tribes and 12 apostles) to worship the man on the throne (4:10-11) along with a host of angels who encircle the throne (5:11-14).
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Good. Easily explained. They are angelic beings who spend time in God's presence and also carry out His will throughout His creation. Not so hard to understand.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#552
Oct 19, 2024
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#552
Cameron143 said:
Revelation 5:6...7 Spirits
Read Isaiah 11:1-2.
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IS 11:2, "The Spirit (2) of the Lord will rest upon him [the Branch from Jesse]", the Spirit of wisdom (2) and of understanding (3),
the Spirit of counsel (4) and of might (5), the Spirit of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

RV 5:6b, "The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#553
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#553
GWH said:
IS 11:2, "The Spirit (2) of the Lord will rest upon him [the Branch from Jesse]", the Spirit of wisdom (2) and of understanding (3),
the Spirit of counsel (4) and of might (5), the Spirit of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

RV 5:6b, "The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."
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There's your 7 Spirits. Easy peasy.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
#554
Oct 19, 2024
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#554
Cameron143 said:
There's your 7 Spirits. Easy peasy.
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Yes, we have the four living creatures in EZK 4:6 identified as referring to the cherubim in EZK 9&10, who resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty. Also, we have the seven spirits of God in EZK 5:6 identified as the spirits mentioned in IS 11:2,: "The Spirit of the Lord (1), of wisdom (2), of understanding (3), of counsel (4), of might (5), of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

That leaves the following imagery to be covered: the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#555
Mar 1, 2022
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#555
GWH said:
Yes, we have the four living creatures in EZK 4:6 identified as referring to the cherubim in EZK 9&10, who resemble the seraphim mentioned in IS 6:2-4, who exclaimed "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord Almighty. Also, we have the seven spirits of God in EZK 5:6 identified as the spirits mentioned in IS 11:2,: "The Spirit of the Lord (1), of wisdom (2), of understanding (3), of counsel (4), of might (5), of the knowledge (6) and fear of the Lord (7).

That leaves the following imagery to be covered: the six seals in ch.6, the 144,000 in ch.7, the 7th seal & six angels plus one in ch.8-9, the mighty angel and little scroll in ch.10, the two witnesses in ch.11, the woman and the dragon in ch.12, the two beasts in ch.13, the six angels in ch.14, the seven angels & plagues in ch.15, the seven bowls in ch.16, Babylon in ch.17 &18, the war in ch.19, and the thousand years in ch.20?
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Chapter 6...6 seals
Read Daniel 12.
What connections do you make with both chapter 5 and chapter 6.
 
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