The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[studier]

The truth that God’s method of conversion is NOT coercion was taught by Paul:

TOP #120: God’s normative method of conversion is via persuasion. [2CR 5:11] This method was practiced by Paul in the synagogue at Thessalonica (ACTS 17:1-4) and in Athens at a meeting of the Areopagus (ACTS 17:16-34)

I have different view of coercion and think God does coerce depending upon whose definition we use for "coerce".

30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31 NKJ)

Paraphrase: You're commanded to stop and turn from your ignorance regarding God. Times of such ignorance are over, and God has resurrected His righteous judge and set a day when He will judge the world.

There is a demand and a warning - a threat - here that is a form of coercion, just as is the threat of eternal death.

 

[PAC-fit]

It appears that God accommodated His revelation so that it corresponded with the stages of human moral and intellectual development, ,”

”, , imparting His Spirit/Word by means of words, both literal and allegorical or metaphorical.

That is quite a skip of meaning in the same sentence, reaching a stage of development in order to receive His imparting?

But I see evidence of your insistence for development elsewhere, a qualifying that must be met rather than Him revealing things?

", , simple enough for a child of about nine years old to understand

If you recall, His nature is not removed from confounding wisdom OR rationale. Though the Apostle is seen returning some back to the instruction of “babes”, but for those babes who rose out of that, that is the only development I recall, and I wouldn’t bet on a required young adult as the minimum candidate.

 

[GWH]

An inviting NT concern this thread you have amassed. One comment here I've underscored, how is it, we should expect to see such a change in God and his depth of delivery to the ''unlearned'' and ''babes''?

I think it corresponds also with the development of a normal human soul from a simple understanding of the essential Gospel/kerygma to better understanding of more complex (usually didachaic) doctrines, such as perseverance, election and how to harmonize divine love with justice or wrath and hell.

 

[GWH]

I have different view of coercion and think God does coerce depending upon whose definition we use for "coerce".

30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 "because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31 NKJ)

Paraphrase: You're commanded to stop and turn from your ignorance regarding God. Times of such ignorance are over, and God has resurrected His righteous judge and set a day when He will judge the world.

There is a demand and a warning - a threat - here that is a form of coercion, just as is the threat of eternal death.

I would draw the line between persuasion and coercion between 1. the warning of the just consequence at some indefinite point in the future and 2. immediate slap on the hand, sending to prison, and execution.

 

[GWH]

That is quite a skip of meaning in the same sentence, reaching a stage of development in order to receive His imparting?

But I see evidence of your insistence for development elsewhere, a qualifying that must be met rather than Him revealing things?

If you recall, His nature is not removed from confounding wisdom OR rationale. Though the Apostle is seen returning some back to the instruction of “babes”, but for those babes who rose out of that, that is the only development I recall, and I wouldn’t bet on a required young adult as the minimum candidate.

Well, I believe that the kerygma/Gospel fulfills and supersedes OT revelation but does not contradict its correct interpretation (HB 8:6-13).

However, the NT revelation of GRFS will never become obsolete (PHP 2:9-11, RV 22:12-13). Thus, new revelations from God’s Holy Spirit will not contradict the Gospel, although they may express its truth in a different way or form, or else God would be inconsistent or tricky.

There may be new wine skins, but no new wine (MT 19:17). Post-NT inspiration must be didachaic information regarding contemporary moral or political issues. (I think I have had some such insights using God-given logic :^)

 

[Beckworth]

That a sinner, by the will of the Father...convicted by Jesus, place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, who will give them eternal life through the Holy Spirit indwelling them, sealing them for eternity.

John 3:16, John 5:24, John 6:40, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10

God shows Himself to everyone to
give everyone a chance. Through His creation..His invisible attributes can be seen. He doesn't HAVE to have someone talk to them.

God only shows His EXISTENCE and attributes to everyone through His creation. They cannot learn “the gospel”. Through just seeing HIS creation. ROMANS 10:17 says that the way people learn about the gospel —His will for mankind and about salvation and HOW TO BE SAVED, is by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. So God says in Roman’s 10:17. “Faith comes by HEARING ( not seeing) and hearing by the word of God.” Before that, God says, “How can they “hear” without a preacher?”

In EVERY example of salvation in the gospel dispensation, people were “taught” the gospel before they were saved. Acts 2- Peter preached a sermon about The Christ before they asked “What must we do?” In verse 37. In Acts 8—the disciples went everywhere PREACHING THE WORD. Phillip went to Samaria and “PREACHED CHRIST to them. And they “heeded” the things spoken by Phillip. (5) They believed what Phillip preached and as a result, “both men and women were baptized”. Verse 12. They are putting into action what Jesus said in Mark 16:16- “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” Phillip then went to the Ethiopian eunuch and “PREACHED JESUS TO HIM”. (Verse 35) and he ASKED to be baptized in verse 36. In Acts 9 Saul of Tarsus believes because he sees Jesus and talks to him but God sent Ananias (a man) to him to tell him what to do. Which by the way is what Jesus told him on the road to Damascus. Jesus said, “Go into the city and there it will be TOLD YOU WHAT YOU MUST DO.” When Ananias came to Saul, what did he say? He said, “ What are you waiting on? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.” He was TOLD what he MUST do.

Acts 10- Cornelius had a vision telling him to send for Peter “who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your house will be saved.” (11:14). Then it says that Peter “OPENED HIS MOUTH” and preached to him. (10:34) After receiving the Holy Spirit, which was a sign that they had been accepted to receive the gospel—just like the Jews—Peter commanded them to be baptised.

Acts 16- Lydia was baptized because she “heeded” the things spoken by Paul. (14)

May people think the jailer was saved only by faith, but the jailer was a pagan Roman. He didn’t even know WHO or WHAT he was suppose to believe. He couldn’t believe in Jesus before he even had a chance to find out who Jesus was. Read the next verse—“THEN THEY SPOKE THE WORD OF THE LORD TO HIM.” He had to find out who to believe in. And that didn’t happen until Paul and Silas taught him the WORD OF THE LORD.” Then look at what he IMMEDIATELY did!! Verse 33- “ …he and all hus family were baptized.”

Do you see a pattern here? Mark 16:16–they ALL did the same thing to be saved. They ALL did what Jesus commanded in Mark 16:16- they ALL BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED and they ALL WERE TOLD THE SAME THING TO DO.

The scriptures (God) do not lie. But Satan does. He is the father of lies. Don’t be deceived.

 

[wattie]

God only shows His EXISTENCE and attributes to everyone through His creation. They cannot learn “the gospel”. Through just seeing HIS creation. ROMANS 10:17 says that the way people learn about the gospel —His will for mankind and about salvation and HOW TO BE SAVED, is by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. So God says in Roman’s 10:17. “Faith comes by HEARING ( not seeing) and hearing by the word of God.” Before that, God says, “How can they “hear” without a preacher?”

In EVERY example of salvation in the gospel dispensation, people were “taught” the gospel before they were saved. Acts 2- Peter preached a sermon about The Christ before they asked “What must we do?” In verse 37. In Acts 8—the disciples went everywhere PREACHING THE WORD. Phillip went to Samaria and “PREACHED CHRIST to them. And they “heeded” the things spoken by Phillip. (5) They believed what Phillip preached and as a result, “both men and women were baptized”. Verse 12. They are putting into action what Jesus said in Mark 16:16- “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” Phillip then went to the Ethiopian eunuch and “PREACHED JESUS TO HIM”. (Verse 35) and he ASKED to be baptized in verse 36. In Acts 9 Saul of Tarsus believes because he sees Jesus and talks to him but God sent Ananias (a man) to him to tell him what to do. Which by the way is what Jesus told him on the road to Damascus. Jesus said, “Go into the city and there it will be TOLD YOU WHAT YOU MUST DO.” When Ananias came to Saul, what did he say? He said, “ What are you waiting on? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.” He was TOLD what he MUST do.

Acts 10- Cornelius had a vision telling him to send for Peter “who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your house will be saved.” (11:14). Then it says that Peter “OPENED HIS MOUTH” and preached to him. (10:34) After receiving the Holy Spirit, which was a sign that they had been accepted to receive the gospel—just like the Jews—Peter commanded them to be baptised.

Acts 16- Lydia was baptized because she “heeded” the things spoken by Paul. (14)

May people think the jailer was saved only by faith, but the jailer was a pagan Roman. He didn’t even know WHO or WHAT he was suppose to believe. He couldn’t believe in Jesus before he even had a chance to find out who Jesus was. Read the next verse—“THEN THEY SPOKE THE WORD OF THE LORD TO HIM.” He had to find out who to believe in. And that didn’t happen until Paul and Silas taught him the WORD OF THE LORD.” Then look at what he IMMEDIATELY did!! Verse 33- “ …he and all hus family were baptized.”

Do you see a pattern here? Mark 16:16–they ALL did the same thing to be saved. They ALL did what Jesus commanded in Mark 16:16- they ALL BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED and they ALL WERE TOLD THE SAME THING TO DO.

The scriptures (God) do not lie. But Satan does. He is the father of lies. Don’t be deceived.

Water baptism as part of salvation is heresy.

 

[GWH]

God only shows His EXISTENCE and attributes to everyone through His creation. They cannot learn “the gospel”. Through just seeing HIS creation. ROMANS 10:17 says that the way people learn about the gospel —His will for mankind and about salvation and HOW TO BE SAVED, is by HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. So God says in Roman’s 10:17. “Faith comes by HEARING ( not seeing) and hearing by the word of God.” Before that, God says, “How can they “hear” without a preacher?”

In EVERY example of salvation in the gospel dispensation, people were “taught” the gospel before they were saved. Acts 2- Peter preached a sermon about The Christ before they asked “What must we do?” In verse 37. In Acts 8—the disciples went everywhere PREACHING THE WORD. Phillip went to Samaria and “PREACHED CHRIST to them. And they “heeded” the things spoken by Phillip. (5) They believed what Phillip preached and as a result, “both men and women were baptized”. Verse 12. They are putting into action what Jesus said in Mark 16:16- “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” Phillip then went to the Ethiopian eunuch and “PREACHED JESUS TO HIM”. (Verse 35) and he ASKED to be baptized in verse 36. In Acts 9 Saul of Tarsus believes because he sees Jesus and talks to him but God sent Ananias (a man) to him to tell him what to do. Which by the way is what Jesus told him on the road to Damascus. Jesus said, “Go into the city and there it will be TOLD YOU WHAT YOU MUST DO.” When Ananias came to Saul, what did he say? He said, “ What are you waiting on? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins.” He was TOLD what he MUST do.

Acts 10- Cornelius had a vision telling him to send for Peter “who will tell you WORDS by which you and all your house will be saved.” (11:14). Then it says that Peter “OPENED HIS MOUTH” and preached to him. (10:34) After receiving the Holy Spirit, which was a sign that they had been accepted to receive the gospel—just like the Jews—Peter commanded them to be baptised.

Acts 16- Lydia was baptized because she “heeded” the things spoken by Paul. (14)

May people think the jailer was saved only by faith, but the jailer was a pagan Roman. He didn’t even know WHO or WHAT he was suppose to believe. He couldn’t believe in Jesus before he even had a chance to find out who Jesus was. Read the next verse—“THEN THEY SPOKE THE WORD OF THE LORD TO HIM.” He had to find out who to believe in. And that didn’t happen until Paul and Silas taught him the WORD OF THE LORD.” Then look at what he IMMEDIATELY did!! Verse 33- “ …he and all hus family were baptized.”

Do you see a pattern here? Mark 16:16–they ALL did the same thing to be saved. They ALL did what Jesus commanded in Mark 16:16- they ALL BELIEVED AND WERE BAPTIZED and they ALL WERE TOLD THE SAME THING TO DO.

The scriptures (God) do not lie. But Satan does. He is the father of lies. Don’t be deceived.

You cited the verse before RM 10:17 but omitted/deleted/ignored what comes after: "But I ask, Did they not hear? Of course they did:
Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."

 

[GWH]

You cited the verse before RM 10:17 but omitted/deleted/ignored what comes after: "But I ask, Did they not hear? Of course they did:
Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world."

This passage (RM 10:13-18) along with a couple of others (CL 1:23 & GL 3:8) indicate that a provisional or proto-gospel has been proclaimed to everyone under heaven implicitly or by OT foreshadowings.

This proto-gospel revealed via creation of natural revelation combined with the inner conscience or natural moral sense (RM 2:14-16), which manifests morality or a moral Authority in every culture, serves as the basis for divine judgment of those who had no opportunity to learn the NT Gospel.

As we have noted in the KISSed HOB thread, this was most of the world up until recent times. It is possible to view or interpret the Parable of the Talents (MT 25:14-30) as signifying this truth, that souls are saved via faith in God/ Christ as revealed (cf. 1CR 10:1-5). Truthseekers around the world in all times are pilgrims at various places along the road of life, and all true roads eventually lead to the Way to eternal life in heaven (JN 14:6, ACTS 24:14, PHP 2:10-11). All truth leads to One Way.

 

[GWH]

The quest for greater Christian unity might be furthered by noting the following logical progression:

1. Formerly/at first we are without hope of salvation from meaninglessness and death. (EPH 3:12b)

2. So we sought salvation and found God. (MT 7:7, HB 11:6b)

3. The loving God who wants all souls to learn the truth about how to be saved. (1TM 2:3-4, JN 3:16)

4. Which is to believe that Jesus is Christ, whose death atoned for humanity’s sins. (1TM 2:5-6)

5. As taught in all inspired Scripture interpreted in light of this Gospel of salvation. (2TM 3:15)

6. Such interpretation of GW also teaches how to be godly after being saved. (2TM 3:16-17)

7. Which doctrine Jesus summarized as loving God, oneself and everyone else. (MT 22:37-40)

8. And which moral maturity Paul termed as the fruit of the Holy Spirit. (GL 5:13-23)

9. That requires persevering in saving faith and learning God’s Word. (MT 4:4, 10:22)

10. So that we will grant the prayer of Jesus for us to be one in our witness. (JN 17:20-23)

 

[GWH]

Unfortunately, because Scripture does not differentiate between God's intentional and permissive will with regard to the doctrine of election and predestination, there is confusion and debate about whether everyone may satisfy GRFS. The need is to harmonize the Scriptures sounding as though God determines who will be elect with Scriptures indicating that souls have moral free will, but in order to do this it is first necessary to harmonize Scriptures stressing the sovereignty of God with those focusing on His love for humanity.

Scriptures stressing sovereignty may be represented by the following:

1. Matt 11:27, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

2. Luke 8:10, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’”

God’s Word stressing love for humanity may be represented by the following:

3. JN 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

4. 1TM 2:3b-4, “God our Savior wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”

How can these two themes be harmonized and unified? The way is as follows:

Jesus does not say in #1 that he wants to reveal the Father only to a few and condemn the majority to hell, and Paul does say in #4 that God wants all to be saved, so the Son chooses to reveal the Father to all who exercise their God-given volition (moral free will) by choosing to seek Him per MT 7:7.

Although #2 by itself may be understood as indicating that God withholds the understanding of His Word regarding how to be saved and enter the kingdom of God from those He hates, both Jesus and Paul quote Isaiah 9:6 (in MT 13:14-15 & ACTS 28:26-27) in a way that puts the responsibility for not receiving God’s Word on those who exercise their God-given volition (moral free will) by choosing
NOT to seek Him but instead to harden their hearts (in agreement with #3).

 

[GWH]

Understanding that God loves and wants to save everyone, we are ready to consider Scripture concerning election/predestination.

GW stressing God’s role in election may be represented by the following:

5. JN 15:16, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you to bear fruit that will last.”

6. RM 9:11&16, “In order that God’s purpose in election might stand… It does not depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.”

GW stressing the role of human agency in election may be represented by the following:

7. DT 30:19, “This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.”

8. MT 23:37, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.”

How can these two themes be harmonized and unified?