The kingdom of Moses vs the kingdom of heaven

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#21
It seems to me that all scripture is all from God and God is a spirit, so there is spiritual meaning in the physical that we are told of. The temp;e made pf stone always symbolized the spiritual temple.
KEY word = symbolized

The symbolic temple is no more and is no longer needed for NOW/TODAY the TRUE ETERNAL TEMPLE has Come.

Read Acts and when you get to chapter 7 - read carefully.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#22
Are you justified before God by fulfilling the moral or by faith in Christ's sacrifice?
we aren’t the judge

“For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭

and this is the judgement we face

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is the judge

“him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:40, 42-44‬ ‭

these are his eternal words and judgements to all Mankind

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1, 14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can do this with the gospel believing

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

or this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭

It’s always going to be about the judges judgements and his blood shed for those who believe to salvation or disbelieve to condemnation. Once we can accept what the gospel is we can start to hear , believe and be saved.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s the judge it’s one thing the resurrection proves he’s the one the ot said would come and set judgement and truth in the earth then die for sin and be raised up to life again, the messiah

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all we have to do is believe Jesus is the messiah the Old Testament said would come ( who died for sin and raised to life as a justification for all who believe as the ot said he would do ) accept his word and believe into salvation.

it’s okay to let Jesus judge us each one according to faith , we can believe now or be judged later by the same word But it teaches us that we are not the judge of anyone’s salvation even our own is in the hands of our Lord and savior ….who had a lot to say before he have his life to save ours.

the word and blood of Jesus is the everlasting covenant
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#23
we are not the judge of anyone’s salvation even our own is in the hands of our Lord and savior
I'm confused. Scripture provides us will many, many different ways to determine, or judge, if we have crossed over from death to Life. Are you suggesting that we should not utilize these tests? For example:

1 John 3:14 NET - "We know that we have crossed over from death to life because we love our fellow Christians. The one who does not love remains in death."

The way people, here, berate and belittle the Brothers and Sisters without shame could use the above Scripture to determine their current position with God. These judgments regarding our Salvation must be made.

Or, are you suggesting that Judgment regarding Salvation is DETERMINED by God?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,137
5,720
113
#24
I'm confused. Scripture provides us will many, many different ways to determine, or judge, if we have crossed over from death to Life. Are you suggesting that we should not utilize these tests? For example:

1 John 3:14 NET - "We know that we have crossed over from death to life because we love our fellow Christians. The one who does not love remains in death."

The way people, here, berate and belittle the Brothers and Sisters without shame could use the above Scripture to determine their current position with God. These judgments regarding our Salvation must be made.

Or, are you suggesting that Judgment regarding Salvation is DETERMINED by God?
“I'm confused. Scripture provides us will many, many different ways to determine, or judge, if we have crossed over from death to Life. Are you suggesting that we should not utilize these tests?”

I’m saying we aren’t the judge of anyone’s salvation the bible
Makes this very clear Jesus is every mans judge between themself and God independent from anyone else in the end we all Have to do this

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying Jesus is my judge and he is the only one who can give eternal life to
Anyone . His judgements arent hidden or somehow need high iq To understand but just a willingness to hear what our lord said before he shed his blood for us

he’s the lord our judge and his eternal words are recorded in four volumes in the Bible , along with the accounts of his bloodshed

I’m simply saying I can’t tell
You if I’m saved , or if your saved Jesus will Make that judgement at the appointed time for each one of us. And our judgement will be like he said it’s going to be according to hearing and believing the gospel he sent into the world offering eternal life to all who believe in his shed blood for sin and resurrection to life all who believe the gospel “ shall Be saved “ is his judgement we’re just sharing it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This person now can start to believe unto salvation. The gospel teaches them this to believe

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as we hear these things our lord said and sent out to all People to hear and believe it begins to help us understand God the father who we can trust and believe upon and Hope in for our salvation .

This Pushes us along into this eventually as we start to grow

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life….

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these challenges To our belief make our faith grow to active living faith and repentance start to become reality as we accept them our judgement is also growing

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

as we believe we hear ( accept and acknowledge ) his word and faith grows and we become more able to stand against the devils tricks and plots in the world. It’s about believing but understanding we all Have to face Jesus one day and all we do unless we repent now is going to be part of the judgement we face good or bad.

this should keep us is a hopeful and trusting place but never allowing us to judge salvstion even for our own self

Yes we should Use good Judgement as we learn it of course this would allow us to apply the gospel and christs teachings to our own self first and then sharing it later with others. Never judging anyone’s salvation Christ will
Do that part by whatever knowledge each of us has

some have alot of understanding thier judgement is stricter some don’t understand alot thier judgement is not the same as knowing and still doing wrong as for those who know and still
Willingly do wrong reveling in it’s pleasure.

we have to let Jesus judge us inside because he’s the only one who knows what we actually understand. We should
Believe he’s going to save us always , but when judgement starts to take hold there’s a constant challenge to
Keep Stepping

I guess I’m saying salvstion os
Progressive the more understanding your given the more carefully you learn to walk. I believe I was saved years ago , but I can’t tell you today how the lord will judge me I do believe he’ll save me but he only has that authority
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#25
KEY word = symbolized

The symbolic temple is no more and is no longer needed for NOW/TODAY the TRUE ETERNAL TEMPLE has Come.

Read Acts and when you get to chapter 7 - read carefully.
Right! But we are to learn from the symbolism of the OT, for it tells us about the reality that Christ brought.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#26
“I'm confused. Scripture provides us will many, many different ways to determine, or judge, if we have crossed over from death to Life. Are you suggesting that we should not utilize these tests?”

I’m saying we aren’t the judge of anyone’s salvation the bible
Makes this very clear Jesus is every mans judge between themself and God independent from anyone else in the end we all Have to do this

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m saying Jesus is my judge and he is the only one who can give eternal life to
Anyone . His judgements arent hidden or somehow need high iq To understand but just a willingness to hear what our lord said before he shed his blood for us

he’s the lord our judge and his eternal words are recorded in four volumes in the Bible , along with the accounts of his bloodshed

I’m simply saying I can’t tell
You if I’m saved , or if your saved Jesus will Make that judgement at the appointed time for each one of us. And our judgement will be like he said it’s going to be according to hearing and believing the gospel he sent into the world offering eternal life to all who believe in his shed blood for sin and resurrection to life all who believe the gospel “ shall Be saved “ is his judgement we’re just sharing it

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This person now can start to believe unto salvation. The gospel teaches them this to believe

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:14-16‬ ‭

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as we hear these things our lord said and sent out to all People to hear and believe it begins to help us understand God the father who we can trust and believe upon and Hope in for our salvation .

This Pushes us along into this eventually as we start to grow

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭

“For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life….

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:22, 24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these challenges To our belief make our faith grow to active living faith and repentance start to become reality as we accept them our judgement is also growing

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

as we believe we hear ( accept and acknowledge ) his word and faith grows and we become more able to stand against the devils tricks and plots in the world. It’s about believing but understanding we all Have to face Jesus one day and all we do unless we repent now is going to be part of the judgement we face good or bad.

this should keep us is a hopeful and trusting place but never allowing us to judge salvstion even for our own self

Yes we should Use good Judgement as we learn it of course this would allow us to apply the gospel and christs teachings to our own self first and then sharing it later with others. Never judging anyone’s salvation Christ will
Do that part by whatever knowledge each of us has

some have alot of understanding thier judgement is stricter some don’t understand alot thier judgement is not the same as knowing and still doing wrong as for those who know and still
Willingly do wrong reveling in it’s pleasure.

we have to let Jesus judge us inside because he’s the only one who knows what we actually understand. We should
Believe he’s going to save us always , but when judgement starts to take hold there’s a constant challenge to
Keep Stepping

I guess I’m saying salvstion os
Progressive the more understanding your given the more carefully you learn to walk. I believe I was saved years ago , but I can’t tell you today how the lord will judge me I do believe he’ll save me but he only has that authority
I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't make Biblical sense to me. I'm sorry.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#27
Right! But we are to learn from the symbolism of the OT, for it tells us about the reality that Christ brought.
And if we don't learn symbolism, the Bible as a whole won't make much sense . . . at all. At least, not in the way and terms that God would have us.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#28
I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't make Biblical sense to me. I'm sorry.
Romans 10:6-13 KJV
6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#29
Romans 10:6-13 KJV
6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Thanks, but I'm referring to how the author of what I was responding to stated that we cannot judge, or determine, whether or not we are saved. There are so, so many ways that Scripture allows us to determine our status. But "christians" don't focus on these things because we're apparently not taught to do so.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#30
Romans 10:6-13 KJV
6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Brother Runningman, take note on this scripture you quoted from Romans, for it is exactly how the thief on the cross was saved.