The Law Is Out Of Date And Will "SOON DISAPPEAR"?
- Thread starter 2ndTimothyGroup
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Again, what's the context? The reason I see the NLT taking liberties is because Paul is talking about the time of Abraham that preceded Moses and how Moses (Law) cannot affect what God promised to Abraham pre-Moses/pre-Law. The NLT turn this into a general statement that some use to speak of Christians and Law. But this is covered elsewhere.
Then the question remains as to whether you are correct in saying the Law does not exist.
There are several ways to approach this, but this comes to mind. I'm going to elaborate a few words in parenthesis:
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully (in accordance with normal procedure; in conformance to traditional standards of law) , 9 knowing this: that the law is not made (in place; valid) for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. (1 Tim. 1:8-11 NKJ)
Then the question remains as to whether you are correct in saying the Law does not exist.
There are several ways to approach this, but this comes to mind. I'm going to elaborate a few words in parenthesis:
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully (in accordance with normal procedure; in conformance to traditional standards of law) , 9 knowing this: that the law is not made (in place; valid) for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. (1 Tim. 1:8-11 NKJ)
- Paul was writing pre-AD70.
- The Law still existed after the Resurrection
- The Law was to be used lawfully/properly
- The Law was not valid for a righteous man - it's not in place for such a man
- Who's a righteous man - those in Christ by faith?
- 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor. 6:9-11 NKJ)
- Who's a righteous man - those in Christ by faith?
- The Law was valid for lawless men.
- The lawless (1Tim8) and the unrighteous (1Cor6) seem to be the ones the Law was/is valid for and such will not enter God's Kingdom.
- Are there still lawless men?
- Are there still sinful men?
- It can get really interesting if I ask if there are still men who transgress? So, I won't for now.
-
1
- Show all
I actually have written children's stories.
When my kids were potty training, I was reading them books while we waited. And the books were entertaining, but I got the idea that it would be better to teach them moral lessons while entertaining them. The children's stories are just the stories I made up for them.
When my kids were potty training, I was reading them books while we waited. And the books were entertaining, but I got the idea that it would be better to teach them moral lessons while entertaining them. The children's stories are just the stories I made up for them.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
LOL - That did it. Believe it or not, it now reads quite easily. Thanks for being my crutch.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
While I appreciate all your time and effort into writing your previous post to me, the last two show that you're simply not understanding what I am conveying. And this may be for good reason; I have no idea. I can't remember who I've said what to around here, and it's possible that you may have missed some of the things I've previously said.
That said, I've run out of energy trying to explain this position, for the ultra clear words that I have used simply have not worked. And they don't need to. I am no one. If God wants a person to know certain ideas and concepts . . . it will be done.
So, you have a great evening!
That said, I've run out of energy trying to explain this position, for the ultra clear words that I have used simply have not worked. And they don't need to. I am no one. If God wants a person to know certain ideas and concepts . . . it will be done.
So, you have a great evening!
-
1
- Show all
It was a very Powerful experience that I had with the Lord. I experienced the Spiritual Circumcision of Jesus Christ, followed by the Indwelling Holy Spirit. Prior to this moment, I always believed I was a Christian, but the entirety of my life proved that I was a child of the Devil. I didn't realize it, though my behavior proved it, the I was held captive by the Devil, with the express purpose of doing his evil will.
After being Known by the Lord, it became obvious that my belief in Jesus was like a mud puddle . . . shallow and cloudy. I had been a Christian for 49 years, and I just kept becoming worse and worse, though I believed nothing could separate me from the Love of God. I thought of God every day of my life. I purchased books, videos, tape series, seminars, all of it and more . . . even served in the worship team two years straight . . . didn't miss a sunday. I was completely deceived, but I didn't know it. I genuinely believed that I was a true Christian.
The problem? In nearly fifty years of being what I thought was a true Christian, no one had ever taught me the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Because of that, no one ever taught me the Effect of Christ's Spiritual Works. That's a major problem, for I later came to realize that missing two thirds of the Gospel was a massive issue. The church fed me a false gospel, and it's the same crap in our churches today. Virtually every church is apostate, and they don't even realize it. Sheeple. People are so sure of their Eternity, they don't even bother reading their Bibles anymore. Pft . . . this guy in my old study group acted like he was a master of the Bible, yet admitted repeatedly that he doesn't even read it. I mean, where else can we find such utterly stupid people? It is shocking that this same man was so upset that his church wasn't teaching the truth, he started his own men's Bible study. HE DOESN'T READ THE BIBLE!!!!
I could keep going, believe me. But basically, when I felt the authentic Power of God, that's when I realized the unauthenticity of the . . . gulp . . . "church."
After being Known by the Lord, it became obvious that my belief in Jesus was like a mud puddle . . . shallow and cloudy. I had been a Christian for 49 years, and I just kept becoming worse and worse, though I believed nothing could separate me from the Love of God. I thought of God every day of my life. I purchased books, videos, tape series, seminars, all of it and more . . . even served in the worship team two years straight . . . didn't miss a sunday. I was completely deceived, but I didn't know it. I genuinely believed that I was a true Christian.
The problem? In nearly fifty years of being what I thought was a true Christian, no one had ever taught me the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ. Because of that, no one ever taught me the Effect of Christ's Spiritual Works. That's a major problem, for I later came to realize that missing two thirds of the Gospel was a massive issue. The church fed me a false gospel, and it's the same crap in our churches today. Virtually every church is apostate, and they don't even realize it. Sheeple. People are so sure of their Eternity, they don't even bother reading their Bibles anymore. Pft . . . this guy in my old study group acted like he was a master of the Bible, yet admitted repeatedly that he doesn't even read it. I mean, where else can we find such utterly stupid people? It is shocking that this same man was so upset that his church wasn't teaching the truth, he started his own men's Bible study. HE DOESN'T READ THE BIBLE!!!!
I could keep going, believe me. But basically, when I felt the authentic Power of God, that's when I realized the unauthenticity of the . . . gulp . . . "church."
-
1
-
1
- Show all
i agree that the churches of today are 95% apostate which is soo sad but what turns my stomach even more is that 95% of todays christians don’t even read Gods word, as a result christians are raised on anti biblical doctrines which are built upon cherry picked verses without any context. the reason that these doctrines remain amongst the brethren is due to a lack of biblical knowledge that comes from washing oneself in the word. these days it is easy for a non believer to pick apart a christian off the street cuz he is loot rooted in manifold wisdom of the living God.
-
3
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
You just described the first 49 years of my "christian" life. I read the Bible, but only certain parts of it. I had never read the entire Bible even once, thinking to myself, "I"m under the new dispensation . . . what's the Old Testament got to do with me?" Unbelievable. I was absolutely clueless, though I considered myself a master of certain doctrines, such as Eternal Security. It is impossible for anyone to be a master of any doctrine if they refuse to know the Old Testament.
-
1
- Show all
2Ti 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Defining the law is the first difference many of us have.
There must be a law.
No law = no sin
No sin = no need for forgiveness or for a saviour
Justification is being declared righteous in the sight of God.
No law = no sin = we are righteous.
No need for Jesus or faith when you remove the law.
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Defining the law is the first difference many of us have.
There must be a law.
No law = no sin
No sin = no need for forgiveness or for a saviour
Justification is being declared righteous in the sight of God.
No law = no sin = we are righteous.
No need for Jesus or faith when you remove the law.
Romans 5:12-14a Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. For sin was in the world before the law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Amen, brother. Our Father gave us the Bible to read. He tells us many times, “It is written.” You’re correct in saying that we can’t depend on the churches, especially of today, to actually teach their congregation from the Bible; therefore, how can we even hear? …but, “it is written“ and we can read our Father’s beautiful words …
Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. He brings the princes to nothing; He makes the judges of the earth useless. Scarcely shall they be planted, Scarcely shall they be sown, Scarcely shall their stock take root in the earth, When He will also blow on them, And they will wither, And the whirlwind will take them away like stubble. "To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?" says the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing. Why do you say, O Jacob, And speak, O Israel: "My way is hidden from the LORD, And my just claim is passed over by my God"? Have you not known? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the LORD, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable. He gives power to the weak, And to those who have no might He increases strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, And the young men shall utterly fall, But those who wait on the LORD Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.
- Isaiah 40:21-31
Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. He brings the princes to nothing; He makes the judges of the earth useless. Scarcely shall they be planted, Scarcely shall they be sown, Scarcely shall their stock take root in the earth, When He will also blow on them, And they will wither, And the whirlwind will take them away like stubble. "To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?" says the Holy One. Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing. Why do you say, O Jacob, And speak, O Israel: "My way is hidden from the LORD, And my just claim is passed over by my God"? Have you not known? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the LORD, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable. He gives power to the weak, And to those who have no might He increases strength. Even the youths shall faint and be weary, And the young men shall utterly fall, But those who wait on the LORD Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary, They shall walk and not faint.
- Isaiah 40:21-31
-
1
- Show all