The Law of God - who is it meant for and why?

[BenjaminN]

John 8 is before the cross .
Romans 2 is laying the groundwork to ' For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God .

Hebrews is written to ? the clue is in the title.

John 8 was written after the cross. If it should not apply to our lives, "to sin no more", it would not have been written. I think the theme of the bible is pretty clear that we shall sin no more. If you want to argue about this, I retire.

Grafted into Israel, we are all Hebrews.

 

[throughfaith]

The church is Christ Yeshua's kingdom of Israel in restoration.

Have you ever wondered, why the two houses, the house of Israel, and the house of Judah. The united monarchy of David split into two kingdoms, after the death of king Solomon. Into the northern kingdom - house of Israel under Ephraim, and the southern kingdom - house of Judah.

The northern kingdom, house of Israel under Ephraim, were utterly destroyed and dispersed into the Gentiles, hence the house of Israel under Ephraim, being among the Gentiles.

The southern kingdom, house of Judah, stayed sort of intact among the Jews.

When Paul talks of this mystery, that we should not be unaware of, that has been revealed to him by Christ Yeshua, he knew that the two houses, Jew (Judah) and Gentile (Israel under Ephraim scattered among the Gentiles) will be redeemed, so all Israel will be saved - as God does not break promises. The northern kingdom captured by the Assyrians in 721BC (in accordance with Ezekiel 4's 390 days = 390 years , and Leviticus 26's sevenfold punishment for non-repentance, this gives a 2730 years of exile for Ephraim, for the fullness of the Gentiles to have come in - it took 2730 years for Ephraim to realise they are among the Gentiles, 721BC + 2730 years = 2009AC) would take 2730 years to return from exile, starting in 2009AC.

Hmm isn't that quite a mouthful . It should be a red flag to see such a complicated system.

 

[throughfaith]

John 8 was written after the cross. If it should not apply to our lives, "to sin no more", it would not have been written. I think the theme of the bible is pretty clear that we shall sin no more. If you want to argue about this, I retire.

Grafted into Israel, we are all Hebrews.

How is John 8 referring to after the cross? The narrative is before the cross ,still under the law and its Old testament still . Mathew 27 is the transition point .Jesus hadn't died for her sins until Mathew 27 .

 

[throughfaith]

John 8 was written after the cross. If it should not apply to our lives, "to sin no more", it would not have been written. I think the theme of the bible is pretty clear that we shall sin no more. If you want to argue about this, I retire.

Grafted into Israel, we are all Hebrews.

I think i have to leave it at " we are all Hebrews " . You cannot understand the bible with the way your blurring the lines. I would recommend just spend some time reading carefully Romans and Galations . God bless . Last reply .

 

[BenjaminN]

Would you class your self as a hebrew Christian? I'm trying to understand you. You definitely hold to reformed theology . But your close to a torah observer ?

I hold to reformed theology, however I believe that the Sunday Sabbath should be changed to a seventh day Sabbath - but for practical reasons, in my physical setting, we take (Sun)day as our seventh day. As a saved child of God, in obedience to God's will, his commandments, his law, I walk in the Torah where I practically can. Some things can not practically be adhered to, before the complete restoration of the kingdom of Israel, at the next and final coming of Christ Yeshua, when his 1000 years reign on earth from Jerusalem, with those Christians who did not take the mark of the beast, starts, and Satan is bounded for the 1000 years, of Ezekiel 37-48, and Revelation 20:4-6.


Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, 10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[BenjaminN]

How is John 8 referring to after the cross? The narrative is before the cross ,still under the law and its Old testament still . Mathew 27 is the transition point .Jesus hadn't died for her sins until Mathew 27 .

So after Matthew 27, she doesn't need to repent from sin, and God does not want her to sin no more?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jacob / Israel blessed all the peoples to the extents of the earth, every tribe, tongue and nation, when he blessed his son Joseph's son the half-Egyptian Ephraim, and therefore to re-establish God's kingdom of Israel, Christ Yeshua sent his apostles to Jerusalem, Samaria and to the extents of the earth.

Genesis 48 (Young's Literal Translation)


14 And Israel putteth out his right hand, and placeth [it] upon the head of Ephraim, who [is] the younger, and his left hand upon the head of Manasseh; he hath guided his hands wisely, for Manasseh [is] the first-born. 18 and Joseph saith unto his father, `Not so, my father, for this [is] the first-born; set thy right hand on his head.' 19 And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'


Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."


Romans 11 (ESV)

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

skip to 1h13m : https://bit.ly/GentilesEphraimJewsJudahAt1h13m

The all Israel that will be saved is Jacob/Israel, and those that he represents. Not the whole nation of Israel. All of the nation of Israel is not of Jacob/Israel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jacob / Israel blessed all the peoples to the extents of the earth, every tribe, tongue and nation, when he blessed his son Joseph's son the half-Egyptian Ephraim, and therefore to re-establish God's kingdom of Israel, Christ Yeshua sent his apostles to Jerusalem, Samaria and to the extents of the earth.

Genesis 48 (Young's Literal Translation)


14 And Israel putteth out his right hand, and placeth [it] upon the head of Ephraim, who [is] the younger, and his left hand upon the head of Manasseh; he hath guided his hands wisely, for Manasseh [is] the first-born. 18 and Joseph saith unto his father, `Not so, my father, for this [is] the first-born; set thy right hand on his head.' 19 And his father refuseth, and saith, `I have known, my son, I have known; he also becometh a people, and he also is great, and yet, his young brother is greater than he, and his seed is the fulness of the nations;'


Acts 1 (ESV)

6 So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."


Romans 11 (ESV)

25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

skip to 1h13m : https://bit.ly/GentilesEphraimJewsJudahAt1h13m

I do not read links of other mens interpretation of the scriptures, but The lost sheep of the house of Israel, which is Jacob as Israel and those that he represents. Those that Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to were newly born again babes in Christ that were lost to the knowledge of the gospel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

There's a thread on here for this topic . On replacement theology .

Exactly, I have not replied to that thread, because you and I have already discussed that.

 

[Sipsey]

So, to sum it up, some believe we are to obey mans laws, but God’s, not so much?

 

[throughfaith]

Exactly, I have not replied to that thread, because you and I have already discussed that.

I would suggest that thread for you to try get to the reasons why you hold to the views you do .

 

[Grandpa]

Obsolete for salvation yes. Not obsolete for measuring our actions, as God's children, to know what is sin, to know what to do, to sin no more. Without knowledge of God's will, his commandments, his law, written on our hearts, under his new covenant, how will we as his saved children know what is sin? Obedience to God's will, God's commandments, God's law, follows receiving grace of salvation through his gift of faith.


John 8 (ESV)

3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?" 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more."


Romans 2 (ESV)

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.


Hebrews 8 (ESV)

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

How will we know what sin is? C'mon man. We were born in sin. We are experts in sin. Its the one thing we know.

The Law has no power to make you stop sinning. The Law has no power to even give you knowledge or wisdom of what it Truly is describing.

Only the Lord Jesus can remove you from sin. Only the Lord Jesus can give you Knowledge and Wisdom of what the Law is describing.



God writes His Law on our hearts. But that is NOT the 10 commandments that are written there. See 2 Corinthians 3:1-18

 

[BenjaminN]

How will we know what sin is? C'mon man. We were born in sin. We are experts in sin. Its the one thing we know.

The Law has no power to make you stop sinning. The Law has no power to even give you knowledge or wisdom of what it Truly is describing.

Only the Lord Jesus can remove you from sin. Only the Lord Jesus can give you Knowledge and Wisdom of what the Law is describing.



God writes His Law on our hearts. But that is NOT the 10 commandments that are written there. See 2 Corinthians 3:1-18

Revelation 14 (New King James Version)

12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


Revelation 14 (ESV)

12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

 

[BenjaminN]

How will we know what sin is? C'mon man. We were born in sin. We are experts in sin. Its the one thing we know.

The Law has no power to make you stop sinning. The Law has no power to even give you knowledge or wisdom of what it Truly is describing.

Only the Lord Jesus can remove you from sin. Only the Lord Jesus can give you Knowledge and Wisdom of what the Law is describing.



God writes His Law on our hearts. But that is NOT the 10 commandments that are written there. See 2 Corinthians 3:1-18

What is your definition of sin?

 

[Grandpa]

What is your definition of sin?

Anything that falls short of the Work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BenjaminN]

Anything that falls short of the Work of the Holy Spirit.

Is the whole word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Grandpa]

Is the whole word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit?

For the most part, I would say yes.

But I'm not God so I can't really check for un-inspired scripture. I can just tell you I get a funny feeling about it not being quite right. Like with the Apocrypha...

 

[BenjaminN]

For the most part, I would say yes.

But I'm not God so I can't really check for un-inspired scripture. I can just tell you I get a funny feeling about it not being quite right. Like with the Apocrypha...

How would you elaborate on this inspired text of God's word, by the Holy Spirit, referring to the Father and the Son, about his holy ones, with reference to sin:


Revelation 14 (KJV)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Grandpa]

How would you elaborate on this inspired text of God's word by the Holy Spirit, referring to the Father and the Son about his holy ones, with reference to sin:


Revelation 14 (KJV)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I would say that its Truth.

But there is a BIG difference between someone who KEEPS the commandments of God and someone who WORKS at keeping the commandments of God.

The difference being that the one who keeps the commandments of God is CAUSED by God to keep them, through Rest in Christ.

The one who works at Gods commandments THINKS he keeps them but because they are in his own (weak) understanding he falls WAY short.

 

[BenjaminN]

I would say that its Truth.

But there is a BIG difference between someone who KEEPS the commandments of God and someone who WORKS at keeping the commandments of God.

The difference being that the one who keeps the commandments of God is CAUSED by God to keep them, through Rest in Christ.

The one who works at Gods commandments THINKS he keeps them but because they are in his own (weak) understanding he falls WAY short.

Would you say to not keep the commandments of God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, is a sin, if you have been saved by God's grace, through God's gift of faith to you, for your God-prepared good works?

Revelation 14 (KJV)

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.