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Sinless Perfectionism:
Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.
The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.
Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”
As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?
True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.
here are some of the verses used by various groups who believe in sinless perfectionism
would actually be helpful to look at them and give a reasonable understanding of how they should be understood instead of fighting with someone who loves your attention and letting him destroy yet another thread
Ephesians 4:13 says that the spiritual gifts are given to build up the body of Christ “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature (see Romans 7:14–24). No one will be “perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.
The word translated “mature” in Ephesians 4:13 is the Greek word teleios. It is used throughout the New Testament to mean “perfect,” “complete,” “full-grown,” and “mature.” What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.
Another passage that people sometimes get confused about is Colossians 1:28, which says, in some translations, that Paul wants to “present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.” Also, in Colossians 4:12 Paul prays that we would “stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” In both verses, the Greek word for perfect should be understood to mean “mature” or “full-grown,” not “having no sin.”
As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?
True perfection will not come until the rapture of the church, when we rise to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, and the bodies of the living will be changed (Philippians 3:20, 21; 1 Corinthians 15:54). We will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) where our works will be judged and rewards will be given (1 Corinthians 3:9–15). Our redemption will be complete, and our sin will be gone forever. We will live and reign with Christ in sinless perfection forever.
here are some of the verses used by various groups who believe in sinless perfectionism
would actually be helpful to look at them and give a reasonable understanding of how they should be understood instead of fighting with someone who loves your attention and letting him destroy yet another thread
There is a purpose. In fact, even the "imagery" makes the point.
He still inhabits his dead flesh if he is born again. When we get our glorified bodies, no imagery will matter.
I have spoken with mature Christians on this exact scenario. They acknowledge they react in a way that would initially be sinful, they ask Jesus to forgive them, and they remember they have freedom in Christ, and move on.
The one thing they do NOT do is be a hypocrite, and say that they don't sin.
He still inhabits his dead flesh if he is born again. When we get our glorified bodies, no imagery will matter.
I have spoken with mature Christians on this exact scenario. They acknowledge they react in a way that would initially be sinful, they ask Jesus to forgive them, and they remember they have freedom in Christ, and move on.
The one thing they do NOT do is be a hypocrite, and say that they don't sin.
S
exactly. it is the spirit that is now in communion with God. our flesh will die and we will receive new bodies...as was Christ's. that, is why we are told to walk IN THE SPIRIT.
this should sound an alarm to those who believe they are not 'sinless'. someone mentioned 'imputed righteousness' and that is what is given to us, but that is not sinless perfectionism. that, pertains to our position in Christ
and we cannot do that without the indwelling Holy Spirit sent by God, to enable us to do so
specific and pertinent verses. I wonder though who is really paying attention? it seems verses of scripture are so often glossed over and the fighting continues. I still think the idea of kicking people out of a thread (not a ban) who cause nothing but disruption to be a great idea. I've seen that work and the thread continues without nonsense and flaming
this should sound an alarm to those who believe they are not 'sinless'. someone mentioned 'imputed righteousness' and that is what is given to us, but that is not sinless perfectionism. that, pertains to our position in Christ
and we cannot do that without the indwelling Holy Spirit sent by God, to enable us to do so
specific and pertinent verses. I wonder though who is really paying attention? it seems verses of scripture are so often glossed over and the fighting continues. I still think the idea of kicking people out of a thread (not a ban) who cause nothing but disruption to be a great idea. I've seen that work and the thread continues without nonsense and flaming
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I read and study the New Testament every day. A central theme of the New Testament is don’t live in sin. It’s often called walking in the spirit, walking in the light, etc. You seem to disagree with that so I just want to know what you see. I mean you brought this topic up, we’re just chatting about it.
Are you backing out? If yes then that’s cool, just say so but don’t build a straw man about how I don’t know the NT enough to have a discussion about it.sheesh.
Are you backing out? If yes then that’s cool, just say so but don’t build a straw man about how I don’t know the NT enough to have a discussion about it.sheesh.
R
You are right about serving two masters.
Sadly you are serving Satan by the spreading of lies.
As for my name, I am a rich man because of all that God has blessed me with.
A loving Savior, a loving wife and family, a local church to serve in, A warm and dry cabin in the woods to live in, more than enough food, good health, and just enough money that I earned by hard honest work to help others in need.
Sadly you are serving Satan by the spreading of lies.
As for my name, I am a rich man because of all that God has blessed me with.
A loving Savior, a loving wife and family, a local church to serve in, A warm and dry cabin in the woods to live in, more than enough food, good health, and just enough money that I earned by hard honest work to help others in need.
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