The Lord showed me

[Woodartdon]

You spoke of looking to history for better understanding into the Word and if you do here you will find 2 things: This was a time in Jeremiah’s life that Israel had only recently been taken capture. The leadership that conquered them (history records) found that conquered nations rebelled little if they were allowed to take their God with them. This is the why as to the question: why were the scribes copying the ancient books? (The very copies Jeremiah criticizes in verse 8) Now notice what Jeremiah says (And if you look in the original texts one would see that Jeremiah starts out saying “God Says, I have listened all day with great intent and all I here are lies, how can man now hope to know wisdom when the lying pen of the scribes has turned it into lies?”.
Clearly Jeremiah is warning of the corruption now added top the Bible. Only I say that man is never ending in his corrupting the knowledge of God and maybe we should look closer at simplicity without all the divine interpretations that add to the word, taking the bible for what it says in simplicity. Jeremiah is clear as to the corruption now in stowed into the very books we use to search out the heart of God. Should we put on blinder to such facts?

how is this:



demonstrated by this:







?

let's start simply:

what does Jeremiah 8:8 mean? who was Jeremiah writing to? what was the situation in Israel when he wrote this?

 

[posthuman]

You spoke of looking to history for better understanding into the Word and if you do here you will find 2 things: This was a time in Jeremiah’s life that Israel had only recently been taken capture. The leadership that conquered them (history records) found that conquered nations rebelled little if they were allowed to take their God with them. This is the why as to the question: why were the scribes copying the ancient books? (The very copies Jeremiah criticizes in verse 8) Now notice what Jeremiah says (And if you look in the original texts one would see that Jeremiah starts out saying “God Says, I have listened all day with great intent and all I here are lies, how can man now hope to know wisdom when the lying pen of the scribes has turned it into lies?”.
Clearly Jeremiah is warning of the corruption now added top the Bible. Only I say that man is never ending in his corrupting the knowledge of God and maybe we should look closer at simplicity without all the divine interpretations that add to the word, taking the bible for what it says in simplicity. Jeremiah is clear as to the corruption now in stowed into the very books we use to search out the heart of God. Should we put on blinder to such facts?

i don't think you understand what the Lord is saying through the prophet or when He said it. look, here is a big quotation to give some context to that one particular verse; i'm just going to put it here so there is no excuse not to have read it.

Jeremiah 7
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of theLord, The temple of the Lord, are these. 5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; 6 if ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: 7 then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. 9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; 10 and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? 11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord. 12 But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. 13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the Lord, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; 14 therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. 15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. 16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 but this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. 24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: 26 yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers. 27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. 28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lord their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
29 Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the Lord hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath. 30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. 31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place. 33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away. 34 Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

Jeremiah 8
1 At that time, saith the Lord, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves: 2 and they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth. 3 And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Moreover thou shalt say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord; Shall they fall, and not arise?
shall he turn away, and not return?
5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding?
they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright:
no man repented him of his wickedness,
saying, What have I done?
every one turned to his course,
as the horse rusheth into the battle.
7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times;
and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming;
but my people know not the judgment of the Lord.
8 How do ye say, We are wise,
and the law of the Lord is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it;
the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken:
lo, they have rejected the word of the Lord;
and what wisdom is in them?

 

[posthuman]

now, reading all that, it is clear that Jeremiah was told to "stand in the gate of the Lord's house" -- so the people he is talking to are not in Babylon, but in Jerusalem.

what's going on there?
in 7:4-10 -- the people are trusting in the fact that they have the temple of the Lord saving them, even though they practice wickedness.
in 7:17-20 -- the people are serving other gods along with their oblations at the temple.
in the end of chapter 7, the Lord pronounces that their high places and idolatry will be destroyed; having the temple and the law is meaningless without that their hearts are turned to the Lord.

now in chapter 8 the prophet says "at that time" (v. 1)
"thou shalt say unto them" (v.4)
what time? when his judgment is poured out (see end of chapter 7).

now look at chapter 8 leading up to verse 8. this is repeating the thought in chapter 7, reaffirming the judgement God pronounced through the prophet: the fact that you have the temple and the law does not save you from judgement. you must put away your wickedness.

Jeremiah 8:8 is not saying that the Torah is corrupted with errors of the scribes. if you compare Kings & Chronicles, this part of Jeremiah is given not long after the law had been found and Josiah had cleansed the temple. now what the prophet says is that even though now they have the law, it does not make them wise, and copying it and re-establishing the rituals of it is in vain, because the people's heart is not after God.

Jeremiah 8:8 is not teaching that the OT is corrupt and untrustworthy. it's teaching the same thing that Jesus taught, that unless your heart is turned to God, ritual oblations are not sufficient to preserve you from judgement. i think we agree on that, don't we?

 

[Woodartdon]

Now see here again you post without expostulation! That is ARROGANT beyond words for you to repeat the same actions as before!! EXPLAIN YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THESE VERSES OR ADMIT YOUR IGNORANCE OF THEM. You are not a very nice person are you?

i don't think you understand what the Lord is saying through the prophet or when He said it. look, here is a big quotation to give some context to that one particular verse; i'm just going to put it here so there is no excuse not to have read it.

Jeremiah 7
1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 2 Stand in the gate of the Lord’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the Lord, all ye of Judah, that enter in at these gates to worship the Lord. 3 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, Amend your ways and your doings, and I will cause you to dwell in this place. 4 Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of theLord, The temple of the Lord, are these. 5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; 6 if ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt: 7 then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.
8 Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. 9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods whom ye know not; 10 and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations? 11 Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen it, saith the Lord. 12 But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I set my name at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. 13 And now, because ye have done all these works, saith the Lord, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not; 14 therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. 15 And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. 16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces? 20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
21 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 but this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you. 24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward. 25 Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them: 26 yet they hearkened not unto me, nor inclined their ear, but hardened their neck: they did worse than their fathers. 27 Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. 28 But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lord their God, nor receiveth correction: truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth.
29 Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the Lord hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath. 30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it. 31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place. 33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away. 34 Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.

Jeremiah 8
1 At that time, saith the Lord, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves: 2 and they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth. 3 And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the Lord of hosts.
4 Moreover thou shalt say unto them,
Thus saith the Lord; Shall they fall, and not arise?
shall he turn away, and not return?
5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding?
they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright:
no man repented him of his wickedness,
saying, What have I done?
every one turned to his course,
as the horse rusheth into the battle.
7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times;
and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming;
but my people know not the judgment of the Lord.
8 How do ye say, We are wise,
and the law of the Lord is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it;
the pen of the scribes is in vain.
9 The wise men are ashamed, they are dismayed and taken:
lo, they have rejected the word of the Lord;
and what wisdom is in them?

 

[Woodartdon]

You do add to much! Presumption are what you are leaning on through the whole of your presentation without any breakdown of the verses you presume support you! You add to the word that alone is such a sin and yet you do not see it, blinder sir!

now, reading all that, it is clear that Jeremiah was told to "stand in the gate of the Lord's house" -- so the people he is talking to are not in Babylon, but in Jerusalem.

what's going on there?
in 7:4-10 -- the people are trusting in the fact that they have the temple of the Lord saving them, even though they practice wickedness.
in 7:17-20 -- the people are serving other gods along with their oblations at the temple.
in the end of chapter 7, the Lord pronounces that their high places and idolatry will be destroyed; having the temple and the law is meaningless without that their hearts are turned to the Lord.

now in chapter 8 the prophet says "at that time" (v. 1)
"thou shalt say unto them" (v.4)
what time? when his judgment is poured out (see end of chapter 7).

now look at chapter 8 leading up to verse 8. this is repeating the thought in chapter 7, reaffirming the judgement God pronounced through the prophet: the fact that you have the temple and the law does not save you from judgement. you must put away your wickedness.

Jeremiah 8:8 is not saying that the Torah is corrupted with errors of the scribes. if you compare Kings & Chronicles, this part of Jeremiah is given not long after the law had been found and Josiah had cleansed the temple. now what the prophet says is that even though now they have the law, it does not make them wise, and copying it and re-establishing the rituals of it is in vain, because the people's heart is not after God.

Jeremiah 8:8 is not teaching that the OT is corrupt and untrustworthy. it's teaching the same thing that Jesus taught, that unless your heart is turned to God, ritual oblations are not sufficient to preserve you from judgement. i think we agree on that, don't we?

 

[posthuman]

yeah um, thanks for all your wise teachings and for your Christian gentleness.

maybe this article from the "Answering Islam" website can help, written by a man named Sam Shamoun:


Muslims often appeal to Jeremiah 8:8 as proof that the Torah has been corrupted:

"How can you say, ‘We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,’ when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" Jeremiah 8:8
​

Several comments are in order. First, even if this passage were speaking about an actual corruption of the text, this would only be referring to the copies that were in the possession of the scribes. It wouldn’t refer to all the copies that were in the hands of others such as Daniel the prophet. More on this later. Secondly, Jeremiah was a prophet of God, which means that he was receiving revelation from God. As such, Jeremiah would have been quite capable of restoring the Torah to its true pristine form at the direct orders of God, and hence nothing of the Torah could be corrupted! In fact, something similar happened with Jeremiah’s own revelation:

"In the fourth year of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the Lord: ‘Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now. Perhaps when the people of Judah hear about every disaster I plan to inflict on them, each of them will turn from his wicked way; then I will forgive their wickedness and their sin.’ So Jeremiah called Baruch son of Neriah, and while Jeremiah dictated all the words the Lord had spoken to him, Baruch wrote them on the scroll. Then Jeremiah told Baruch, ‘I am restricted; I cannot go to the Lord 's temple. So you go to the house of the Lord on a day of fasting and read to the people from the scroll the words of the Lord that you wrote as I dictated. Read them to all the people of Judah who come in from their towns. Perhaps they will bring their petition before the Lord, and each will turn from his wicked ways, for the anger and wrath pronounced against this people by the Lord are great’ ... After they put the scroll in the room of Elishama the secretary, they went to the king in the courtyard and reported everything to him. The king sent Jehudi to get the scroll, and Jehudi brought it from the room of Elishama the secretary and read it to the king and all the officials standing beside him. It was the ninth month and the king was sitting in the winter apartment, with a fire burning in the firepot in front of him. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, until the entire scroll was burned in the fire. The king and all his attendants who heard all these words showed no fear, nor did they tear their clothes. Even though Elnathan, Delaiah and Gemariah urged the king not to burn the scroll, he would not listen to them. Instead, the king commanded Jerahmeel, a son of the king, Seraiah son of Azriel and Shelemiah son of Abdeel to arrest Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet. But the LORD had hidden them. After the king burned the scroll containing the words that Baruch had written at Jeremiah's dictation, the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: ‘Take another scroll and write on it all the words that were on the first scroll, which Jehoiakim king of Judah burned up. Also tell Jehoiakim king of Judah, ‘This is what the Lord says: You burned that scroll and said, "Why did you write on it that the king of Babylon would certainly come and destroy this land and cut off both men and animals from it?" Therefore, this is what the Lord says about Jehoiakim king of Judah: He will have no one to sit on the throne of David; his body will be thrown out and exposed to the heat by day and the frost by night. I will punish him and his children and his attendants for their wickedness; I will bring on them and those living in Jerusalem and the people of Judah every disaster I pronounced against them, because they have not listened.’ So Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to the scribe Baruch son of Neriah, and as Jeremiah dictated, Baruch wrote on it all the words of the scroll that Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire. And many similar words were added to them." Jeremiah 36: 1-7, 20-32, 27-32
​

If God was capable of restoring the revelation given to Jeremiah after it had been destroyed, then the same God would also have been capable of restoring the original Torah and have his prophets record it! There was, however, no such corruption in the first place.
In fact, God promises to write his Law into the hearts of true believers:

"‘The time is coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’ declares the LORD. ‘This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,’ declares the LORD. ‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD," because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,’ declares the LORD. ‘For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.’ This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD Almighty is his name: ‘Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,’ declares the LORD, ‘will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.’ This is what the LORD says: ‘Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,’ declares the LORD." Jeremiah 31:31-37
​

Again, if God is able to write his Law within the hearts of true believers in order to keep it, and insure that his decrees that govern creation cannot be undone, wouldn’t he also be able to preserve his written Law from corruption? In fact, if God won’t permit his decrees which govern creation from vanishing, then what makes someone think that God will permit his written decrees to disappear? In the words of the Lord Jesus:

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18
​

To show that Jeremiah wasn’t claiming that the Torah of God was no longer available in its pure pristine form, note what Jeremiah writes elsewhere:

"Say to them, ‘This is what the LORD says: If you do not listen to me and follow MY LAW, which I have set before you, and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened) then I will make this house like Shiloh and this city an object of cursing among all the nations of the earth.’" Jeremiah 26:4-6
​

How could Israel follow the Law, i.e. the Torah, if it had been corrupted? This presupposes that the Torah was uncorrupt and available during the time of Jeremiah. Since Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah 8:8, who is more qualified than him to tell us the precise meaning of the passage in question? The fact that Jeremiah appeals to the Law of Moses throughout his book demonstrates that the Prophet did not believe that the scribes had corrupted the actual text of the Torah.
Furthermore, other godly men also had copies of the Torah in their possession. For instance, the prophet Daniel wrote:

"In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babylonian kingdom - in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. So I turned to the LORD and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes." Daniel 9:1-3
​

Daniel is reading Jeremiah 25:11, 12 and 29:10 where God predicts that Israel would be taken into captivity to Babylon for 70 years. After reading this, Daniel continues to pray and says:

"Therefore the curses and sworn judgments WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth." Daniel 9:11b-13
​

In order for Daniel to appeal to what was written in the Law of Moses presumes that there was an uncorrupt Torah available for reading. Furthermore, after having read Jeremiah Daniel never concludes that the Torah had been corrupted, but appeals to it as the inspired word of God. This would be a strange conclusion for Daniel to come to if Jeremiah 8:8 indeed meant that the text of the Torah had been corrupted during Jeremiah's time. Therefore, seeing that Daniel was a contemporary of Jeremiah and had an uncorrupt copy of the Torah in his possession conclusively proves that the Torah existed in an unadulterated form during Jeremiah's time.
Other prophets affirm that the book of Moses was still available during their day:

"They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people could understand what was being read ... On the second day ... they gathered around Ezra the scribe to give attention to the words of the Law. They found written in the Law, which the LORD had commanded through Moses, that the Israelites were to ... Day after day, from the first day to the last, Ezra read from the Book of the Law of God ..." Nehemiah 8:13-14,18
​

This occurred approximately 430 B.C., nearly 180 years after Jeremiah's temple address, which took place in 609 or 608 B.C. (see Jeremiah 26:1). Again, in order for Ezra the scribe to be able to both read from the Law of Moses and expound it presupposes that a true, uncorrupt copy of the Torah was available at that time.
The Lord Jesus and his followers quoted from the Torah as we know it today and never assumed that it was corrupt (cf. Matthew 4:4,7,10; 22:31-32; 1 Timothy 5:18).
Even Jeremiah's enemies knew that the Law could never disappear:

"They said, ‘Come, let's make plans against Jeremiah; for the teaching of the law by the priest WILL NOT BE LOST, nor will counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophets. So come, let's attack him with our tongues and pay no attention to anything he says.’" Jeremiah 18:18
​

In light of the preceding factors, the only plausible contextual meaning is that the scribes were misleading the people either through their oral traditions and/or the writing down of erroneous interpretations of the Law. A similar situation existed in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, ‘Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!’ Jesus replied, ‘And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? ...Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: "these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."’" Matthew 15:1-3,6b-9
​

It is therefore quite plausible that Jeremiah was rebuking the scribes for their traditions that led people astray from the word of God. That this is the more plausible meaning becomes evident in light of what immediately follows:

"The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have." Jeremiah 8:9
​

 

[posthuman]

You do add to much! Presumption are what you are leaning on through the whole of your presentation without any breakdown of the verses you presume support you! You add to the word that alone is such a sin and yet you do not see it, blinder sir!

Who is the man so wise that he can understand this? To whom has the mouth of the LORD spoken, that he may declare it? Why is the land ruined and laid waste like a wilderness, so that no one passes through?
And the LORD says: “Because they have forsaken my law that I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice or walked in accord with it, but have stubbornly followed their own hearts and have gone after the Baals, as their fathers taught them."
(Jeremiah 9:12-14)

i notice that the Lord does not say "they have falsely rewritten my law and it has been lost to mankind"
but "they have forsaken my law" and they "have stubbornly followed their own hearts and have gone after the Baals, as their fathers taught them."

considering that, and the article i posted for you, do you really believe Jeremiah 8:8 means that the Torah is corrupted and untrustworthy? or is it, as i've been trying to say, that the people & the priests and scribes did not have their hearts turned towards God, and remaining in idolatry, and adding idolatry & false prophesy to His law?

 

[Woodartdon]

This is a warning of a totally trash response!
posthuman: If what you publish is how you fell about things then to me you seem to be a total fraud! The last point I have interest in pointing out to the ignorance I have seen in your responses is the time between the writings of Jeremiah and the writings of the false prophets of Islam! So what concern is it what some person wrote or what was incorrectly copied 600 years after the fact!

yeah um, thanks for all your wise teachings and for your Christian gentleness.

maybe this article from the "Answering Islam" website can help, written by a man named Sam Shamoun:


Muslims often appeal to Jeremiah 8:8 as proof that the Torah has been corrupted:

"How can you say, ‘We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,’ when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" Jeremiah 8:8
​

Several comments are in order. First, even if this passage were speaking about an actual corruption of the text, this would only be referring to the copies that were in the possession of the scribes. It wouldn’t refer to all the copies that were in the hands of others such as Daniel the prophet. More on this later. Secondly, Jeremiah was a prophet of God, which means that he was receiving revelation from God. As such, Jeremiah would have been quite capable of restoring the Torah to its true pristine form at the direct orders of God, and hence nothing of the Torah could be corrupted! In fact, something similar happened with Jeremiah’s own revelation:

"In the fourth year of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the Lord: ‘Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now. Perhaps when the people of Judah hear about every disaster I plan to inflict on them, each of them will turn from his wicked way; then I will forgive their wickedness and their sin.’ So Jeremiah called Baruch son of Neriah, and while Jeremiah dictated all the words the Lord had spoken to him, Baruch wrote them on the scroll. Then Jeremiah told Baruch, ‘I am restricted; I cannot go to the Lord 's temple. So you go to the house of the Lord on a day of fasting and read to the people from the scroll the words of the Lord that you wrote as I dictated. Read them to all the people of Judah who come in from their towns. Perhaps they will bring their petition before the Lord, and each will turn from his wicked ways, for the anger and wrath pronounced against this people by the Lord are great’ ... After they put the scroll in the room of Elishama the secretary, they went to the king in the courtyard and reported everything to him. The king sent Jehudi to get the scroll, and Jehudi brought it from the room of Elishama the secretary and read it to the king and all the officials standing beside him. It was the ninth month and the king was sitting in the winter apartment, with a fire burning in the firepot in front of him. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, until the entire scroll was burned in the fire. The king and all his attendants who heard all these words showed no fear, nor did they tear their clothes. Even though Elnathan, Delaiah and Gemariah urged the king not to burn the scroll, he would not listen to them. Instead, the king commanded Jerahmeel, a son of the king, Seraiah son of Azriel and Shelemiah son of Abdeel to arrest Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet. But the LORD had hidden them. After the king burned the scroll containing the words that Baruch had written at Jeremiah's dictation, the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: ‘Take another scroll and write on it all the words that were on the first scroll, which Jehoiakim king of Judah burned up. Also tell Jehoiakim king of Judah, ‘This is what the Lord says: You burned that scroll and said, "Why did you write on it that the king of Babylon would certainly come and destroy this land and cut off both men and animals from it?" Therefore, this is what the Lord says about Jehoiakim king of Judah: He will have no one to sit on the throne of David; his body will be thrown out and exposed to the heat by day and the frost by night. I will punish him and his children and his attendants for their wickedness; I will bring on them and those living in Jerusalem and the people of Judah every disaster I pronounced against them, because they have not listened.’ So Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to the scribe Baruch son of Neriah, and as Jeremiah dictated, Baruch wrote on it all the words of the scroll that Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire. And many similar words were added to them." Jeremiah 36: 1-7, 20-32, 27-32
​

If God was capable of restoring the revelation given to Jeremiah after it had been destroyed, then the same God would also have been capable of restoring the original Torah and have his prophets record it! There was, however, no such corruption in the first place.
In fact, God promises to write his Law into the hearts of true believers:

"‘The time is coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’ declares the LORD. ‘This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,’ declares the LORD. ‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD," because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,’ declares the LORD. ‘For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.’ This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD Almighty is his name: ‘Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,’ declares the LORD, ‘will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.’ This is what the LORD says: ‘Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,’ declares the LORD." Jeremiah 31:31-37
​

Again, if God is able to write his Law within the hearts of true believers in order to keep it, and insure that his decrees that govern creation cannot be undone, wouldn’t he also be able to preserve his written Law from corruption? In fact, if God won’t permit his decrees which govern creation from vanishing, then what makes someone think that God will permit his written decrees to disappear? In the words of the Lord Jesus:

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18
​

To show that Jeremiah wasn’t claiming that the Torah of God was no longer available in its pure pristine form, note what Jeremiah writes elsewhere:

"Say to them, ‘This is what the LORD says: If you do not listen to me and follow MY LAW, which I have set before you, and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened) then I will make this house like Shiloh and this city an object of cursing among all the nations of the earth.’" Jeremiah 26:4-6
​

How could Israel follow the Law, i.e. the Torah, if it had been corrupted? This presupposes that the Torah was uncorrupt and available during the time of Jeremiah. Since Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah 8:8, who is more qualified than him to tell us the precise meaning of the passage in question? The fact that Jeremiah appeals to the Law of Moses throughout his book demonstrates that the Prophet did not believe that the scribes had corrupted the actual text of the Torah.
Furthermore, other godly men also had copies of the Torah in their possession. For instance, the prophet Daniel wrote:

"In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babylonian kingdom - in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. So I turned to the LORD and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes." Daniel 9:1-3
​

Daniel is reading Jeremiah 25:11, 12 and 29:10 where God predicts that Israel would be taken into captivity to Babylon for 70 years. After reading this, Daniel continues to pray and says:

"Therefore the curses and sworn judgments WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth." Daniel 9:11b-13
​

In order for Daniel to appeal to what was written in the Law of Moses presumes that there was an uncorrupt Torah available for reading. Furthermore, after having read Jeremiah Daniel never concludes that the Torah had been corrupted, but appeals to it as the inspired word of God. This would be a strange conclusion for Daniel to come to if Jeremiah 8:8 indeed meant that the text of the Torah had been corrupted during Jeremiah's time. Therefore, seeing that Daniel was a contemporary of Jeremiah and had an uncorrupt copy of the Torah in his possession conclusively proves that the Torah existed in an unadulterated form during Jeremiah's time.
Other prophets affirm that the book of Moses was still available during their day:

"They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people could understand what was being read ... On the second day ... they gathered around Ezra the scribe to give attention to the words of the Law. They found written in the Law, which the LORD had commanded through Moses, that the Israelites were to ... Day after day, from the first day to the last, Ezra read from the Book of the Law of God ..." Nehemiah 8:13-14,18
​

This occurred approximately 430 B.C., nearly 180 years after Jeremiah's temple address, which took place in 609 or 608 B.C. (see Jeremiah 26:1). Again, in order for Ezra the scribe to be able to both read from the Law of Moses and expound it presupposes that a true, uncorrupt copy of the Torah was available at that time.
The Lord Jesus and his followers quoted from the Torah as we know it today and never assumed that it was corrupt (cf. Matthew 4:4,7,10; 22:31-32; 1 Timothy 5:18).
Even Jeremiah's enemies knew that the Law could never disappear:

"They said, ‘Come, let's make plans against Jeremiah; for the teaching of the law by the priest WILL NOT BE LOST, nor will counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophets. So come, let's attack him with our tongues and pay no attention to anything he says.’" Jeremiah 18:18
​

In light of the preceding factors, the only plausible contextual meaning is that the scribes were misleading the people either through their oral traditions and/or the writing down of erroneous interpretations of the Law. A similar situation existed in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, ‘Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!’ Jesus replied, ‘And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? ...Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: "these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."’" Matthew 15:1-3,6b-9
​

It is therefore quite plausible that Jeremiah was rebuking the scribes for their traditions that led people astray from the word of God. That this is the more plausible meaning becomes evident in light of what immediately follows:

"The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have." Jeremiah 8:9
​

 

[Woodartdon]

You say:
First, even if this passage were speaking about an actual corruption of the text, this would only be referring to the copies that were in the possession of the scribes. It wouldn’t refer to all the copies that were in the hands of others such as Daniel the prophet. More on this later. Secondly, Jeremiah was a prophet of God, which means that he was receiving revelation from God. As such, Jeremiah would have been quite capable of restoring the Torah to its true pristine form at the direct orders of God, and hence nothing of the Torah could be corrupted! In fact, something similar happened with Jeremiah’s own revelation:

Your ignorance as to the traditions practiced by Israel in the days we are speaking renders an understanding into your lack of understandings about the holy scripts of that day. What makes you think there to be a number of copies and where did you get such information?
As far as Jeremiah restoring the word, that is just the most ignorant rant of the year for me. Maybe you do not know how badly Jeremiah was treated for these statements,
the rest of your statement is pure hyper-spirituality.

yeah um, thanks for all your wise teachings and for your Christian gentleness.

maybe this article from the "Answering Islam" website can help, written by a man named Sam Shamoun:


Muslims often appeal to Jeremiah 8:8 as proof that the Torah has been corrupted:

"How can you say, ‘We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,’ when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" Jeremiah 8:8
​

Several comments are in order. First, even if this passage were speaking about an actual corruption of the text, this would only be referring to the copies that were in the possession of the scribes. It wouldn’t refer to all the copies that were in the hands of others such as Daniel the prophet. More on this later. Secondly, Jeremiah was a prophet of God, which means that he was receiving revelation from God. As such, Jeremiah would have been quite capable of restoring the Torah to its true pristine form at the direct orders of God, and hence nothing of the Torah could be corrupted! In fact, something similar happened with Jeremiah’s own revelation:

"In the fourth year of Jehoiakim son of Josiah king of Judah, this word came to Jeremiah from the Lord: ‘Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now. Perhaps when the people of Judah hear about every disaster I plan to inflict on them, each of them will turn from his wicked way; then I will forgive their wickedness and their sin.’ So Jeremiah called Baruch son of Neriah, and while Jeremiah dictated all the words the Lord had spoken to him, Baruch wrote them on the scroll. Then Jeremiah told Baruch, ‘I am restricted; I cannot go to the Lord 's temple. So you go to the house of the Lord on a day of fasting and read to the people from the scroll the words of the Lord that you wrote as I dictated. Read them to all the people of Judah who come in from their towns. Perhaps they will bring their petition before the Lord, and each will turn from his wicked ways, for the anger and wrath pronounced against this people by the Lord are great’ ... After they put the scroll in the room of Elishama the secretary, they went to the king in the courtyard and reported everything to him. The king sent Jehudi to get the scroll, and Jehudi brought it from the room of Elishama the secretary and read it to the king and all the officials standing beside him. It was the ninth month and the king was sitting in the winter apartment, with a fire burning in the firepot in front of him. Whenever Jehudi had read three or four columns of the scroll, the king cut them off with a scribe's knife and threw them into the firepot, until the entire scroll was burned in the fire. The king and all his attendants who heard all these words showed no fear, nor did they tear their clothes. Even though Elnathan, Delaiah and Gemariah urged the king not to burn the scroll, he would not listen to them. Instead, the king commanded Jerahmeel, a son of the king, Seraiah son of Azriel and Shelemiah son of Abdeel to arrest Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet. But the LORD had hidden them. After the king burned the scroll containing the words that Baruch had written at Jeremiah's dictation, the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah: ‘Take another scroll and write on it all the words that were on the first scroll, which Jehoiakim king of Judah burned up. Also tell Jehoiakim king of Judah, ‘This is what the Lord says: You burned that scroll and said, "Why did you write on it that the king of Babylon would certainly come and destroy this land and cut off both men and animals from it?" Therefore, this is what the Lord says about Jehoiakim king of Judah: He will have no one to sit on the throne of David; his body will be thrown out and exposed to the heat by day and the frost by night. I will punish him and his children and his attendants for their wickedness; I will bring on them and those living in Jerusalem and the people of Judah every disaster I pronounced against them, because they have not listened.’ So Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to the scribe Baruch son of Neriah, and as Jeremiah dictated, Baruch wrote on it all the words of the scroll that Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire. And many similar words were added to them." Jeremiah 36: 1-7, 20-32, 27-32
​

If God was capable of restoring the revelation given to Jeremiah after it had been destroyed, then the same God would also have been capable of restoring the original Torah and have his prophets record it! There was, however, no such corruption in the first place.
In fact, God promises to write his Law into the hearts of true believers:

"‘The time is coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,’ declares the LORD. ‘This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,’ declares the LORD. ‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD," because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,’ declares the LORD. ‘For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.’ This is what the LORD says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD Almighty is his name: ‘Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,’ declares the LORD, ‘will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.’ This is what the LORD says: ‘Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,’ declares the LORD." Jeremiah 31:31-37
​

Again, if God is able to write his Law within the hearts of true believers in order to keep it, and insure that his decrees that govern creation cannot be undone, wouldn’t he also be able to preserve his written Law from corruption? In fact, if God won’t permit his decrees which govern creation from vanishing, then what makes someone think that God will permit his written decrees to disappear? In the words of the Lord Jesus:

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Matthew 5:18
​

To show that Jeremiah wasn’t claiming that the Torah of God was no longer available in its pure pristine form, note what Jeremiah writes elsewhere:

"Say to them, ‘This is what the LORD says: If you do not listen to me and follow MY LAW, which I have set before you, and if you do not listen to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I have sent to you again and again (though you have not listened) then I will make this house like Shiloh and this city an object of cursing among all the nations of the earth.’" Jeremiah 26:4-6
​

How could Israel follow the Law, i.e. the Torah, if it had been corrupted? This presupposes that the Torah was uncorrupt and available during the time of Jeremiah. Since Jeremiah wrote Jeremiah 8:8, who is more qualified than him to tell us the precise meaning of the passage in question? The fact that Jeremiah appeals to the Law of Moses throughout his book demonstrates that the Prophet did not believe that the scribes had corrupted the actual text of the Torah.
Furthermore, other godly men also had copies of the Torah in their possession. For instance, the prophet Daniel wrote:

"In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes (a Mede by descent), who was made ruler over the Babylonian kingdom - in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years. So I turned to the LORD and pleaded with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and in sackcloth and ashes." Daniel 9:1-3
​

Daniel is reading Jeremiah 25:11, 12 and 29:10 where God predicts that Israel would be taken into captivity to Babylon for 70 years. After reading this, Daniel continues to pray and says:

"Therefore the curses and sworn judgments WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you. You have fulfilled the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us great disaster. Under the whole heaven nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW OF MOSES, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth." Daniel 9:11b-13
​

In order for Daniel to appeal to what was written in the Law of Moses presumes that there was an uncorrupt Torah available for reading. Furthermore, after having read Jeremiah Daniel never concludes that the Torah had been corrupted, but appeals to it as the inspired word of God. This would be a strange conclusion for Daniel to come to if Jeremiah 8:8 indeed meant that the text of the Torah had been corrupted during Jeremiah's time. Therefore, seeing that Daniel was a contemporary of Jeremiah and had an uncorrupt copy of the Torah in his possession conclusively proves that the Torah existed in an unadulterated form during Jeremiah's time.
Other prophets affirm that the book of Moses was still available during their day:

"They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people could understand what was being read ... On the second day ... they gathered around Ezra the scribe to give attention to the words of the Law. They found written in the Law, which the LORD had commanded through Moses, that the Israelites were to ... Day after day, from the first day to the last, Ezra read from the Book of the Law of God ..." Nehemiah 8:13-14,18
​

This occurred approximately 430 B.C., nearly 180 years after Jeremiah's temple address, which took place in 609 or 608 B.C. (see Jeremiah 26:1). Again, in order for Ezra the scribe to be able to both read from the Law of Moses and expound it presupposes that a true, uncorrupt copy of the Torah was available at that time.
The Lord Jesus and his followers quoted from the Torah as we know it today and never assumed that it was corrupt (cf. Matthew 4:4,7,10; 22:31-32; 1 Timothy 5:18).
Even Jeremiah's enemies knew that the Law could never disappear:

"They said, ‘Come, let's make plans against Jeremiah; for the teaching of the law by the priest WILL NOT BE LOST, nor will counsel from the wise, nor the word from the prophets. So come, let's attack him with our tongues and pay no attention to anything he says.’" Jeremiah 18:18
​

In light of the preceding factors, the only plausible contextual meaning is that the scribes were misleading the people either through their oral traditions and/or the writing down of erroneous interpretations of the Law. A similar situation existed in the time of the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, ‘Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!’ Jesus replied, ‘And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? ...Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: "these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."’" Matthew 15:1-3,6b-9
​

It is therefore quite plausible that Jeremiah was rebuking the scribes for their traditions that led people astray from the word of God. That this is the more plausible meaning becomes evident in light of what immediately follows:

"The wise will be put to shame; they will be dismayed and trapped. Since they have rejected the word of the LORD, what kind of wisdom do they have." Jeremiah 8:9
​

 

[posthuman]

This is a warning of a totally trash response!
posthuman: If what you publish is how you fell about things then to me you seem to be a total fraud! The last point I have interest in pointing out to the ignorance I have seen in your responses is the time between the writings of Jeremiah and the writings of the false prophets of Islam! So what concern is it what some person wrote or what was incorrectly copied 600 years after the fact!

you've got a real "reading comprehension" problem.

i didn't write that, and it wasn't written by a Muslim. it's an article from a Christian website that focuses on apologetics and counter-arguments to popular Muslim thinking about the Bible.

as it turns out, your interpretation of Jeremiah 8:8 is what Islam teaches about that verse - that it is a proof text to throw out over half the Bible as fraudulent. this is false. i'm patiently trying to show you that, but although you boast of wisdom & a teaching spirit, the only thing that comes out of your mouth is curses, and you show absolutely no understanding of anything i've written.

so please, if wisdom & knowledge is found in you, spit it out: tell me exactly why your interpretation of this scripture, which is Islam's interpretation, and is in direct contradiction with every major Christian expositor, is correct?

you say you're called by God to teach, then teach! surely God didn't call you just to causelessly insult everyone who wants to talk about scripture, did He?

i'd love to talk about this, come, let's talk. start back at the beginning of the thread and actually read my posts this time. please?

 

[posthuman]

As far as Jeremiah restoring the word, that is just the most ignorant rant of the year for me.

maybe you haven't read Jeremiah chapter 36, because that is exactly what is recorded: Jeremiah took a prophecy, wrote it down on a scroll, gave it to the king, who destroyed it, and then Jeremiah wrote it down again on another scroll. all at God's command.

do you think God is incapable of preserving His word, or giving it again to His prophet if it is destroyed a single time? do you remember how Moses went back to Sinai and came down again with a second set of tablets?

that's what you are saying is "most ignorant rant of year"

Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying, Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
(Jeremiah 36:27-28)