The meaning of "mature"

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
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#66
Consider the following.

Heb 10:1, For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.


Now, considering that the word "perfect" actually means "mature" we need to understand that if anyone is mature, they will have no more conscience of sins.

Therefore, are they simply oblivious to what is in all reality there in their lives?

Consider.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we are walking in the light, will not any sin that is present in our lives be exposed to the light and brought out into the open?

Even as it is written,

Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Therefore, if I am walking in the light, and am not sanctified in the sense of being set free from sin, my sin will be exposed; and I will continue to have a conscience of sins.

If I am mature, I do not any longer have any conscience of sins. Which indicates that perfect, in Hebrews 10:1 (and everywhere else in scripture) does indeed mean "perfect".

Consider also the following.

Col 1:21, And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

"holy", "unblameable", "unreproveable".

"faultless"

Are you going to come up with alternate meanings for these words also? Do these words also not mean "perfect"?

I suppose that we can cross off holy...for that has been re-defined as "set apart" (however in this re-definition, the word "holy" has been stripped of its meaning, impaho).

One might be able to cross off "unblameable" as referring to outward righteousness and holiness (except that God, in Hebrews 4:13, tells us that everything is open and naked to His sight; and this also refers to the inward parts of a man, which are either righteous or unrighteous (Matthew 23:25-28).

I don't think that anyone can cross off "unreprovaeable" or "faultless" however.
When we accept Christ, God includes us in His death and resurrection. We ascend with Him and we rule and reign with Him. We are complete in Christ and we are partakers of the divine nature.

However, what God has done for us inwardly has to be worked out through us. This is the root of all our problems. The self of the soul is not about to relinquish control without a fight. So God must work to bring us to an end of our natural abilities and strengths. For the negative types, He must deliver them from the self absorption that hinders them from doing God's will.

The natural life is in the blood. When we receive our new, spiritual bodies, all that remains of self will be removed. Only what has been wrought in us by Christ remains. That will be a wonderful day. Some will have been changed a great deal. Others, barely at all. But all will be changed at that great day.

The degree to which we cooperate with Christ in this life is the degree to which we will be rewarded in the next. Some will be given positions of great honour in God's kingdom. Others, not so much. However, all who are born again will be in heaven. All who are not born again will stay separated from God for eternity.

When I was an infant Christian, I was constantly tormented by the thought of sin and failure. I would beat myself up constantly and be reminded of any mistake that I'd made. If I imagined that I'd upset someone, I'd avoid them.

One day, I realised that I was not fretting over sin. I'd had a great revelation on the power of the blood to cleanse my conscience. I'd not consciously decided not to worry about sin, but it was no longer something that brought my Christian life to a stop. I was no longer sin-conscious.

We need to quit evaluating ourselves by our own human reasoning. We need to see things in God's light. If we are wrong, if we have a bad habit, a wrong attitude or weaknesses (and who does not!) it's God's business to deliver us. That's what the gospel is about (Luke 4:18). If we try to improve ourselves, God will pull back and let us try. We will fail, nothing surer. We need to know the vast extent of the great salvation that Lord Jesus bought for us on the cross. Otherwise we are like homeless beggars who have millions of dollars in the bank, but do not know it.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#67
If we try to improve ourselves, God will pull back and let us try. We will fail, nothing surer.
However, when we rely on Him to do the work. something that He will not do is fail.

For righteousness is not only imputed by Christ. It is also imparted (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

This is a work of the Holy Spirit.

We must walk, not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (Romans 8:1-4 (kjv)).

If we do that, we will not fail to have the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
1,381
434
83
31
Anacortes, WA
#75
If one means the other, then the other means the one.
One may be a subcategory of the other.
For example, Pepsi is one kind of soda.
Pepsi is always soda. But soda is Pepsi only in some instances.

So the statement, "If one means the other, then the other means the one", is false.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#76
One may be a subcategory of the other.
For example, Pepsi is one kind of soda.
Pepsi is always soda. But soda is Pepsi only in some instances.

So the statement, "If one means the other, then the other means the one", is false.
Nevertheless, if perfect means "complete" or "mature" then "complete" and "mature" mean perfect.

For I have made a case for this in the OP that you are going to have to deal with if you are going to deny my premise.
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,117
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U.S.A.
#77
Nevertheless, if perfect means "complete" or "mature" then "complete" and "mature" mean perfect.

For I have made a case for this in the OP that you are going to have to deal with if you are going to deny my premise.


Dear Sir,
Because of our communications I have pretty much avoided any of your threads.
From the onset of joining cc forums you have had this mindset....I am right and you all are wrong not to hear me and agree with me!
I get it as I've said MI runs in my family also and I've watched it destroy.
Pleas,please take a moment and set aside this. Go talk to Jesus,let the Holy Spirit soften your sharp corners.
You are here almost constantly, do you work? If so you can't be accomplishing much for your employer.

Dear,if you antagonize people you can't do much for God either.
He is love,not harshness,he is humble not arrogant,he is peace and comfort not chaos and confusion.

I know at times I have gotten in this same spirit and it makes me want to gnash my teeth and scream.
So I ask as and elder who cares for the younger please pull back.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#78
There was a time in my life when everything that people said affected me. I thought that I should consider them to be better than myself and that therefore, when people disagreed with me, they must be right and I must be wrong.

But that didn't work out very well for my Christian walk.

I found that most people will make statements that rationalize and justify their own sinful lifestyle and when I believed those statements, it led me to do the same.

My walk went downhill when I simply accepted what other people said as being the truth because they must be right and myself wrong.

I found that they dragged me down as I was "tossed to and fro, and carried about by every wind of doctrine." (Ephesians 4:14).

Until I got to know what the Bible teaches, that is.

Now, when someone tells me something contrary to what I have said, I realize that I can still consider them to be better than myself; but that the word of God trumps us both and that therefore I ought to believe the word when people say things that are contrary.

So, I search the word for my answers and I also pray that every word that comes off of my keyboard might be from the Holy Ghost.

I believe that the Lord has answered this prayer (see Mark 11:24).
 

Gardenias

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
1,117
113
U.S.A.
#79
@justbyfaith ,
I'd hate to see you go away and take on more hurt due to your disease.
I will leave you in the hands of a benevolent and righteous God!

May you find the calm in the midst of the storm under his mighty wing.
 

listenyoumustAll

Well-known member
Jul 22, 2021
404
288
63
#80
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[/QUOTE]
My friend there is core truth here that is hidden . no conscience of sin doesn't mean the believer is perfect in himself . it means being of good conscience towards God .
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
in this the focus is on Jesus and the price he paid . remember nothing can separate the believer again from the love of God .