The message

[DaveScotland]

I was thinking of introducing some elements of The message paraphrase into our young teen ( 11-14)class at Church, and try to introduce Gods word to them in a more modern, understandable way.

Does anyone here use the message and if so, what would be the best version , The message, The message 2.0 or The message Remix ?

 

[Slepsog4]

If you really want to give the the Word of God, then give them a real translation. The Message (as a paraphrase) is nothing more than a line by line commentary. It is easy to read, easy to understand, but it is not a true translation.

We need to respect children and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they can learn to read anything, they can learn to read the Bible.

The NKJV is on an 8th grade reading level. The NIV is about 7th grade.

 

[Baruch]

I was thinking of introducing some elements of The message paraphrase into our young teen ( 11-14)class at Church, and try to introduce Gods word to them in a more modern, understandable way.

Does anyone here use the message and if so, what would be the best version , The message, The message 2.0 or The message Remix ?

I'd stick with the King James Bible as wisdom comes from the Lord. This would allow you to ask questions if anyone doesn't understand it or know how to apply the scripture, thus getting them involved more in following in the reading of the scripture.

This is a link showing some major concerns regarding the "Message" Bible.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html

A little leaven leavens a whole lump, and what is not of the Word of God in parts, should be avoided for the sake of the children. Yes... there are very misleading lies in that Message Bible. Avoid it.

 

[DaveScotland]

Thanks for the replies guys
but i have to say i disagree, I read that article on the Message and i have to say i am not convinced, it tries to argu against the message by the wording it uses an even tries to tie it to paganism by using the word Chanting as well as loads of other things, I strongly recomend reading the article and to those who havent read it, it easily pinpoints the dangers of a certain aspect of Christianity.

The message is endoresed by some fantastic Christian writers Max Lucado, John Maxwell and Billy Graham, who i respect as Authors tremendously.

well i know the message is only a paraphrase, I think it is a great starting block for kids who have absolutely no interest in God, who live in a pretty dire area of Glagow. and giving them a more literal translation of the Bible will do more to Alienate them than it will to bring them in sight of God,

 

[Baruch]

Thanks for the replies guys
but i have to say i disagree, I read that article on the Message and i have to say i am not convinced, it tries to argu against the message by the wording it uses an even tries to tie it to paganism by using the word Chanting as well as loads of other things, I strongly recomend reading the article and to those who havent read it, it easily pinpoints the dangers of a certain aspect of Christianity.

The message is endoresed by some fantastic Christian writers Max Lucado, John Maxwell and Billy Graham, who i respect as Authors tremendously.

well i know the message is only a paraphrase, I think it is a great starting block for kids who have absolutely no interest in God, who live in a pretty dire area of Glagow. and giving them a more literal translation of the Bible will do more to Alienate them than it will to bring them in sight of God,

Please do not use those men as endorsement.

Luke 6:26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

I have been to Billy Graham crusades and I can testify that he flip flopped on the Gospel message he presented by giving a religious altar call in saving oneself by making a commitment to follow Jesus. So by keeping your commitment to follow Christ is how everyone responded are saving themselves by.

They speak of their commitments which testifies of them as in "I will.. I will.. " but faith in Him declares our witness to be in this wise.. "He will.. He will.." We cannot bear witness of ourselves..

John 5: 31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

We cannot bear witness of keeping the commitment to follow Christ as if that is what makes us christians.

John 7: 18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. 19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Even John the Baptist knew how to witness:

John 3:28Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30He must increase, but I must decrease.

At any rate... if believers doubted whethor or not they were saved, all Billy Graham had to do was go over the assurances from the promises of God instead of casting out a religious guantlet to save themselves. His son has taken over the crusades and the ministry and the format is still the same.

The link is just provided to show areas of concern in regards to te Message Bible, but by no means, use men of todat as endorsement of anything. Go to the Lord Jesus in prayer for that.

 

[DaveScotland]

Again I disagree
Though I have never seen Billy Graham preach etc, everything I have read of his is not self serving at all. And infect gives glory to God
And by using Luke 6, 26 you are basically saying all people who minister to large crowds etc should not be listened to. As they are self serving which is just a ridiculously petty and small minded view,
Maybe when you seen him you didn’t agree with his views or the way he ran his ministry but it doesnt mean you were correct in that assesment

The thread was started in order for me to learn what would be the best version of the message, and I don’t want to get into an argument in the forums,
So I would still appreciate people, who have read the message to let me know which would be the best for 11-14 year olds,

 

[Baruch]

Again I disagree
Though I have never seen Billy Graham preach etc, everything I have read of his is not self serving at all. And infect gives glory to God
And by using Luke 6, 26 you are basically saying all people who minister to large crowds etc should not be listened to. As they are self serving which is just a ridiculously petty and small minded view,
Maybe when you seen him you didn’t agree with his views or the way he ran his ministry but it doesnt mean you were correct in that assesment

The thread was started in order for me to learn what would be the best version of the message, and I don’t want to get into an argument in the forums,
So I would still appreciate people, who have read the message to let me know which would be the best for 11-14 year olds,

No. Think of it in this way. Why is Billy Graham exalted? Was Paul? No.

1 Corinthians 3:5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Romans 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

2 Corinthians 12: 6For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 Corinthians 1: 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

So then.. what was the name exalted in the crusade? Billy Graham's. What does the following verses say?

John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men.

42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

The commitment to follow Christ is the altar call accreditted to Billy Graham as the means in bringing all those "millions" to Christ..... and yet, what does verse 18 says below?

Romans 14: 15Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 17I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 18For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 19Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face.

Galatians 3: 1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Paul did not nor any disciple place a religious yoke on any believer and that is why Billy Graham is exalted and accreditted for those "millions of believers" in by having them make a commitment to follow Christ so thereby Billy Graham has reasons to glory as the world and the media give him the glory.
It is after all... the Billy Graham's crusade.

 

[Baruch]

I was thinking of introducing some elements of The message paraphrase into our young teen ( 11-14)class at Church, and try to introduce Gods word to them in a more modern, understandable way.

Does anyone here use the message and if so, what would be the best version , The message, The message 2.0 or The message Remix ?

A comparison:

King James Bible

Hebrews 10:11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

The Message

Hebrews 10:11-18Every priest goes to work at the altar each day, offers the same old sacrifices year in, year out, and never makes a dent in the sin problem. As a priest, Christ made a single sacrifice for sins, and that was it! Then he sat down right beside God and waited for his enemies to cave in. It was a perfect sacrifice by a perfect person to perfect some very imperfect people. By that single offering, he did everything that needed to be done for everyone who takes part in the purifying process. The Holy Spirit confirms this:

This new plan I'm making with Israel
isn't going to be written on paper,
isn't going to be chiseled in stone;
This time "I'm writing out the plan in them,
carving it on the lining of their hearts."
He concludes,
I'll forever wipe the slate clean of their sins.
Once sins are taken care of for good, there's no longer any need to offer sacrifices for them.

Remember how that link suggests how the Message promotes a focus on the Spirit? How does the Message above make you believe that the Spirit is running the show as opposed to the Lord in the KJV?

 

[DaveScotland]

You have to remember this is a paraphrase, Its sole intention is not to replace more literal translations, but to make it more assemble and exciting to read, ,

The message doesn’t actually mention the Name Lord in that paragraph, but it did tell us it was the Holy Spirit, and because the language it uses it doesn’t make it any less correct, the Holy Spirit and God are the same thing. and maybe you don’t agree with that, but we all have our own opinions our own walk with God, and if using The message or respecting Billy Graham ministries doesn't tie in with your ethos’s it doesn't make it wrong.

We all have a different view of faith, and judging by the posts you made here and the posts you have made on the biggest majority of threads here, our experience and views of Christianity are completely different and it is pointless arguing over it in forums. if you want to take the conversation further you can send me a PM and we can chat about it in private, or start your own post about the comparison of the message and the KJV but the question I asked here isn’t about Billy Graham, or if the Message was correct or not, it was about different versions of the message Bible which has now been solved, but thanks for the posts anyway

 

[worldlover]

is that a new book?

 

[Baruch]

You have to remember this is a paraphrase, Its sole intention is not to replace more literal translations, but to make it more assemble and exciting to read, ,

The message doesn’t actually mention the Name Lord in that paragraph, but it did tell us it was the Holy Spirit, and because the language it uses it doesn’t make it any less correct, the Holy Spirit and God are the same thing. and maybe you don’t agree with that, but we all have our own opinions our own walk with God, and if using The message or respecting Billy Graham ministries doesn't tie in with your ethos’s it doesn't make it wrong.

Since you are a teacher for which the OP was making inquiries for suggestions for: this is the only reason I responded.

2 Peter 2:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in ****able heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

I have been victimized by errant Bible translations. To make this point: I used to read the Ryrie Study Bible which was the New American Standard when I was a teenager. I read one verse that instructed me that it was a sin to be angry. For a while I believed that as I was being abused by some kids in school on a few occasions. When my Sunday school teacher showed me otherwise in the same Bible, I still had doubt because they opposed each other and so I played it safe and believed errantly that it was a sin to be angry. Example below:

Matthew 5:22but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

Ephesians 4:26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

So matters of opinions cannot have sway in reading the Words of God if we are to follow Him and not allow any false teachings from others take advantage of these blurring in the meaning of His Words.

So as you allow the blurring of the lines in regards to the matter of whethor scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit or the Lord, false teachers will take that broadening of the Way and start attributing that which testifies of Jesus more and more to the Holy Spirit, rationalizing that they are the same. You get cults like Oneness Pentecostals and the "Jesus Only" movement which all puts the focus on the Holy Spirit. Then this prophesy of the falling away of the faith is abounding from that.

1 Timothy 4: 1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Read the thread on "Rebuking the Nicene Creed" and may the Lord show you the danger of attributing scriptures away from Jesus or the Lord to acting as if the Holy Spirit speaks on his own accord or He is the Head of the Church or He is alos the Mediator and not just the Only one the "man Christ Jesus".

That link I provided showing my cocerns in regards to the Message Bible was done by believers wanting to impact negatively the errors within, but they should have left out their negative annotations in driving the point home and just let the Lord convict, but the errors are present and not to be ignored for false teachers of the spirit realm would take advantage of it and have... as I, being misled by one verse should show te example of how doubting in knowing the will of God can cause one to play it safe and choose error instead.

We all have a different view of faith, and judging by the posts you made here and the posts you have made on the biggest majority of threads here, our experience and views of Christianity are completely different and it is pointless arguing over it in forums. if you want to take the conversation further you can send me a PM and we can chat about it in private, or start your own post about the comparison of the message and the KJV but the question I asked here isn’t about Billy Graham, or if the Message was correct or not, it was about different versions of the message Bible which has now been solved, but thanks for the posts anyway

I know it wasn't about Billy Graham but you were using him as an endorsement of the Message and thus the necessity to give you pause so you may be more discerning by His grace as to what Bible you are using.

If I deviated from your intetntion, I apologize, but then again, if a believer asked if pre-marital sex was wrong or not, as a thread was done in another folder on that with replies from some posters as to the negative in different ways without scriptures... here I am including concerns with scriptures in regards to the use of the Message Bible for your teaching class. Your use of it allows the guideline for students to follow and be misled by. It doesn't matter if you are not reading any of those errors that would mislead them for the topic of your class... they may eventually on their own come across any of those misperceptions as you used the Message Bible as a leader in the guidelines of teaching your class.

I was only misled by one verse in the New American Standard Bible, but there were no false teachers to jump on that to take advantage of me. I am just pointing out... there are alot out there on the Message to take advantage of those that read it. When in doubt about anything.. use the King James.

 

[Abing]

well, first of all. it's the Word, not the person. God loves everyone and uses anyone to preach the Gospel. when we keep on saying, he's a false prophet, thats a false prophet, you're a false prophet.wow,
i agree davescotland, their books are great.

 

[Baruch]

well, first of all. it's the Word, not the person. God loves everyone and uses anyone to preach the Gospel. when we keep on saying, he's a false prophet, thats a false prophet, you're a false prophet.wow,
i agree davescotland, their books are great.

Matthew 7:13-27 and Luke 13:24-30 both have those that can claim preach the Gospel... but they were preaching something else that voided the effect of the Gospel. I already exposed that which Paul nor Jesus taught in bringing believers to Christ by a yoke of bondage.

I am not saying that we do not follow Christ, but we do so by faith, not by keeping the commitment to follow Christ as if by doing so.. that makes us christians and helps saves us.

The altar call is..

"If you are not sure you are saved.. come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ." Just ignore that it was said by Billy Graham for a moment and just look at the true meaning of that altar call.

Are you saved by keeping your commitment to follow Christ? Yes or no?

Then you can understand my report of how a woman did not come to Jesus because she believed she had to get her life in order before doing so. Sinners are not going to be able to make that commitment because they do not see it in themselves to follow Jesus.

So, as much as I used scriptures to declare Billy Graham as a false prophet, the shoe fits, but he is still a believer.. but yet a religious one, finishing what was started by the Spirit... by the flesh by keeping his commitment to follow Him ... to save himself.

Matthew 12: 35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The commitment to follow Christ speaks of the person keeping it, thus a false witness.

John 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Matthew 15:
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. .....


18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man:

John 7:
18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?


Then neither can anyone keep their commitment to follow Christ to save themselves. We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ the Lord.

 

[Sinnner]

Matthew 7:13-27 and Luke 13:24-30 both have those that can claim preach the Gospel... but they were preaching something else that voided the effect of the Gospel. I already exposed that which Paul nor Jesus taught in bringing believers to Christ by a yoke of bondage.

I am not saying that we do not follow Christ, but we do so by faith, not by keeping the commitment to follow Christ as if by doing so.. that makes us christians and helps saves us.

The altar call is..

"If you are not sure you are saved.. come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ." Just ignore that it was said by Billy Graham for a moment and just look at the true meaning of that altar call.

Are you saved by keeping your commitment to follow Christ? Yes or no?

Then you can understand my report of how a woman did not come to Jesus because she believed she had to get her life in order before doing so. Sinners are not going to be able to make that commitment because they do not see it in themselves to follow Jesus.

So, as much as I used scriptures to declare Billy Graham as a false prophet, the shoe fits, but he is still a believer.. but yet a religious one, finishing what was started by the Spirit... by the flesh by keeping his commitment to follow Him ... to save himself.

Matthew 12: 35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

The commitment to follow Christ speaks of the person keeping it, thus a false witness.

John 5:31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

Matthew 15:
7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. .....


18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man:

John 7:
18He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?


Then neither can anyone keep their commitment to follow Christ to save themselves. We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ the Lord.

Your posts are so long and exhausting I (and many others) no longer bother reading them.

 

[iwant2serve]

I would say this my friend. You need to pray about it and seek God for an answer. To many answers can be more confusing than helpful. Another thing is if you ask for peoples opinion but disagree with them, then you have already formed a decision and want to see how many agree with your decision. So again I say pray and ask God because you are taking responsability for SOULS! If you lead them in the wronmg direction then thioer blood is required at your hands. i will give you 2 Bibles that are good for kids, the amplified Bible and the NLT (New Living Translation).

 

[Baruch]

Your posts are so long and exhausting I (and many others) no longer bother reading them.

That is expected but Jesus Christ is Lord. By His grace, those that hear will know that I am speaking by His grace towards the love of the truth in defending our faith in according to the Gospel of grace. It is only by the scriptures can one expose the works of darkness, and so...

The Lord is the Good Shepherd as well as the Saviour. He does His job of recovering those out of the snares of the devil just as He makes sure those that seek Him, finds the Good News apart from the extras man and churches would put between them and Jesus Christ in coming to Him as well as following Him... for the just shall live by faith.

 

[DaveScotland]

I would say this my friend. You need to pray about it and seek God for an answer. To many answers can be more confusing than helpful. Another thing is if you ask for peoples opinion but disagree with them, then you have already formed a decision and want to see how many agree with your decision. So again I say pray and ask God because you are taking responsability for SOULS! If you lead them in the wronmg direction then thioer blood is required at your hands. i will give you 2 Bibles that are good for kids, the amplified Bible and the NLT (New Living Translation).

I had already made made up my mind to use the message i declared that on my original post, i asked people who read the message what was the best version to buy, I didnt ask is the message correct, or what is the best alternatave to to the message, so i dont see your point iwant2serve.

 

[DaveScotland]

In the end i went for the message remix, pause version which is a daily reading bible, I read through a huge chunk of it last night and this morning and i have to say its pretty good, and strongly recomended