Oh, that is good that you spent two months in prayer. I spent 10 yrs studying Revelations. I just never got if Revelations is primarily figuritve - NO literal monsters coming from the sea with a thousand heads...and this is how the Book is written, WHY would the two-witnesses be literal? "Breathing fire from their mouths"? Really? Sorry, we are not allowed to pick and choose which parts mean which JUST to fit our doctrine. A HUGE mistake made by the church for thousands of years. Also, if you can skim over what took me years to study, just because you don't believe one mans thoughts on ONE issue, then I feel for you my man. You see, if you think there will be somebody out there who you will agree with 100% on 100% of 100% of any Bible doctrine....then Good luck As far as I'm concerned, that's how most churches act-and I choose not to chat with people who have "it's my way or the highway" type approach to their fellowship. There's never any progress. Sorry.
The MOST AMAZING "Thief" you'll ever meet and love!
- Thread starter Reborn
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you are saying that this is why our Lord chose "thief in the night" as His way of saying how it will be like..I agree. I believe He says that, because most of the world will be caught up in false doctrine..WAITING for some 7 yr Trib, AntiChrist, etc. (yes, and in their minds, they go, " I always can get straight tomorrow, the ol' 7 year Trib hasn't begun, so I'm good!") He will then come back....just like that.
Jesus warns us multiple times that He will come like "a thief in the night" (even in the Book of Revelations) He also states "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24:37)
This lead me to believe (and seek out answers)
1. His return will completely surprise most of the world, just as a thief would while entering a house...
2. If people are "eating, drinking and giving in marriage-like the days of Noah" then the world would have to be PRETTY relaxed to be doing any of those things while in supposed "troubling times"?
Which brings me to my question: (finally
)
How can the world be taken by surprise (by a thief) while we are drinking, and eating, - going about life (like the days of Noah) if we are in the middle of a 7 year Tribulation, while some AntiChrist suddenly convinces (or tricks) the world into taking a Mark of the Beast, all the while, waiting to beRaptured? Aren't those ALL signs that point to a basic date or year? Not very "thief-like" to me? Nor would I (or anyone) be trying to drink, and eat merrily, like the days of Noah because of all the Trib and Armageddon type things going on! ( I couldn't anyway, the AntiChrist would refuse to let me even BUY that drink, because I have no "mark".)
OOOOORRRRR could it be that not a single one of those things highlighted are supported by scripture?! Yes? Maybe?
Before anyone answers, I just ask, is it even a slight possibility some or most of us may have had it wrong for years? Listening to our preachers-taking them for their word, never once questioning if any of those theories MAY EVEN BE TRUE!!?? We have failed to do our proper homework my Brothers and Sisters....and so have they.
Take comfort though...this only means Revelations has been fulfilled (basically), up until the last of the three of the "7"s. (BTW, This is not a Preterism theory, but a thought revealed to us by Jesus after the "time of the Gentiles were fulfilled" which happened in 1967 (Luke 21:22-24) Thus opening the Book of Revelations to be fully understood, and proven using historical fact.
Christ could return at any moment..... and isn't that wonderful?!
This lead me to believe (and seek out answers)
1. His return will completely surprise most of the world, just as a thief would while entering a house...
2. If people are "eating, drinking and giving in marriage-like the days of Noah" then the world would have to be PRETTY relaxed to be doing any of those things while in supposed "troubling times"?
Which brings me to my question: (finally
)How can the world be taken by surprise (by a thief) while we are drinking, and eating, - going about life (like the days of Noah) if we are in the middle of a 7 year Tribulation, while some AntiChrist suddenly convinces (or tricks) the world into taking a Mark of the Beast, all the while, waiting to beRaptured? Aren't those ALL signs that point to a basic date or year? Not very "thief-like" to me? Nor would I (or anyone) be trying to drink, and eat merrily, like the days of Noah because of all the Trib and Armageddon type things going on! ( I couldn't anyway, the AntiChrist would refuse to let me even BUY that drink, because I have no "mark".)
OOOOORRRRR could it be that not a single one of those things highlighted are supported by scripture?! Yes? Maybe?
Before anyone answers, I just ask, is it even a slight possibility some or most of us may have had it wrong for years? Listening to our preachers-taking them for their word, never once questioning if any of those theories MAY EVEN BE TRUE!!?? We have failed to do our proper homework my Brothers and Sisters....and so have they.
Take comfort though...this only means Revelations has been fulfilled (basically), up until the last of the three of the "7"s. (BTW, This is not a Preterism theory, but a thought revealed to us by Jesus after the "time of the Gentiles were fulfilled" which happened in 1967 (Luke 21:22-24) Thus opening the Book of Revelations to be fully understood, and proven using historical fact.
Christ could return at any moment..... and isn't that wonderful?!
But Jason0047..that is here, what about over in areas like Iraq and Syria..it has been many years since I have seen that movie..but over there it is like that movie? And my Godmother is just getting me into this whole rapture thing, yes I have been one of the resisters of that idea but I am coming around to it, but my question to you is, doesn't that happen at anytime, the rapture I mean?
..but over there it is like that movie? And my Godmother is just getting me into this whole rapture thing, yes I have been one of the resisters of that idea but I am coming around to it, but my question to you is, doesn't that happen at anytime, the rapture I mean?
Yes, an all to common thought by another sheltered American. ( And YES--- I was too, for years) The world IS in total chaos, (especially in the middle east, where most scripture refers too!!!!) and we sit and say " imagine a world where it's bad?!!" ...IT IS BAD PEOPLE--read the news!!!! What they are waiting for and want to say is.."Imagine a world where it's bad.....for US!!!....THEN we will be in the end times!" So So SO sad.
we can spend all the time we want in the NT,
but we'll never understand The Revelation without the OT.
jmo.
but we'll never understand The Revelation without the OT.
jmo.
I so happen to agree with your honest opinion. It took the Book of Daniel to give light ( and eventually see ) the Book of Revelation. I really wish people could see that it IS possible to understand most of Revelations, He promised that...and as far as I can tell.....He ALWAYS follows through with His promises. Isn't He Epic? Smile.
First, I am not impressed that you studied 10 years. That doesn't mean anything if you are basing that study off false interpretations or views. There are people of many different religiions who study the Bible for even longer than that. Doesn't mean they are right just because they say they put the study time in.
Second, again, it is not Revelations. Plural. It is Revelation. Singular. Why do you keep calling it the wrong thing?
Third, it was not just the two witnesses alone that he got wrong. I disagreed with a lot of what he says. So he is way off base. Tons of verses have to be twisted and ignored with his views.
Fourth, not expecting everyone to agree 100%. My point is that figuring out who the two witnesses is child's play if you are truly a Berean of the Scriptures. For Scripture testifies of Scripture.
Second, again, it is not Revelations. Plural. It is Revelation. Singular. Why do you keep calling it the wrong thing?
Third, it was not just the two witnesses alone that he got wrong. I disagreed with a lot of what he says. So he is way off base. Tons of verses have to be twisted and ignored with his views.
Fourth, not expecting everyone to agree 100%. My point is that figuring out who the two witnesses is child's play if you are truly a Berean of the Scriptures. For Scripture testifies of Scripture.
Yes sir. Have you prayed on how not to get too hyped up over a civil conversation? "Revelation"......sorry I type fast, but if we are now resorting to childish responses,..... then I don't want to play anymore! Your obsessive need to prove yourself right, shows me where you stand my man....ya see..... with Christ, comes peace. If you feel I am wrong, I'm sorry for that. But long winded notes back and forth won't persuade me to agree with you, so I'm sorry for that too. Also -Numbered lists only show me that you respond out of frustration. Ya see, I believe I am right, just as you do...why else would we believe what we believe!? Now once again, can we agree to disagree? I have peace in what I believe and need no human to validate this. If you feel the same in your beliefs -then rejoice, life is too short Brother.
Have you ever wanted something for someone so much that it racked your spirit? There is a good frustration and a bad frustration, my friend. Good frustration is where you desire something so much for a people you love, and yet they are not getting it. Good frustration is done in love towards people with the hope that it will lead them more into the truth of God's Word and with a connected fellowship. Such a thing can get one to pray for people out of them not being able to see. Paul responded out of frustration that the Corinthians were not able to receive the meat of the Word. They could only receive the milk of God's Word. They were stagnant. They were still yet carnal or worldly. That's a problem I see in the church's today. They trust in worldly matters rather than trusting in God. Normal every day topics within God's Word that should be obvious to most Christians alludes them because they have not let go of the ways of this world. They are still yet carnal. Focused on carnal things. This is why they can't receive the meat of God's Word.
1 Corinthians 3 KJV
As for the two witnesses being Moses and Elijah:
Moses represents the Law.
Elijah represents the prophets.
Jesus referred to the Old Covenant as the Law and the prophets.
Both Moses and Elijah appeared once before on the Mt. of Transfiguration (Being a witness to a greatest event in human history - the Ministry of Jesus Christ which led to Calvary).
Both Moses and Elijah will breathe fire in the End Times. Fire being present with these two OT saints is nothing new. Moses seen the pillar of fire by night and fire had consumed the sons of Aaron (Whereby Moses explained to Aaron what the Lord said in why such a thing happened). Elijah had fire come down from heaven as a test of whose God was greater with some pagan priests. Elijah was caught up in a chariot of fire and with horses of fire.
In the End Times, the two witnesses are said to bring waters that are of blood. Moses was present to this once before in Egypt. Rain from heaven is prevented from coming down by these two witnesses. Elijah was present to rain being prevented from coming down with the false priests.
Bad frustration is what Moses experienced when he hit the rock when he was not supposed to. Bad frustration leads to bad actions and behavior. Good frustration or righteous frustration leads one to get on their knees or to fast and desire nothing else but that thing out of love. Hannah prayed so ferfently so deeply because she desired a child so much from the Lord. Christians can be frustrated in struggling with a certain kind of sin in their life. This is a good frustration to have because it leads them into being like a Hannah so as to draw closer to God and to distance themselves farther away from this world (And yet be in the world so as to shine the Light and Love of God unto other people). It leads them into paths of righteousness for His name sake.
Having good frustration does not mean you are not without peace in your soul with God. Good frustration is in addition to one's peace and love that they have in the Lord. For at the end of the day, they do not let that frustration consume them or place them into a state of fear or worry or panic. Good frustration merely shows that you care for others and or for oneself.
1 Corinthians 3 KJV
As for the two witnesses being Moses and Elijah:
Moses represents the Law.
Elijah represents the prophets.
Jesus referred to the Old Covenant as the Law and the prophets.
Both Moses and Elijah appeared once before on the Mt. of Transfiguration (Being a witness to a greatest event in human history - the Ministry of Jesus Christ which led to Calvary).
Both Moses and Elijah will breathe fire in the End Times. Fire being present with these two OT saints is nothing new. Moses seen the pillar of fire by night and fire had consumed the sons of Aaron (Whereby Moses explained to Aaron what the Lord said in why such a thing happened). Elijah had fire come down from heaven as a test of whose God was greater with some pagan priests. Elijah was caught up in a chariot of fire and with horses of fire.
In the End Times, the two witnesses are said to bring waters that are of blood. Moses was present to this once before in Egypt. Rain from heaven is prevented from coming down by these two witnesses. Elijah was present to rain being prevented from coming down with the false priests.
Bad frustration is what Moses experienced when he hit the rock when he was not supposed to. Bad frustration leads to bad actions and behavior. Good frustration or righteous frustration leads one to get on their knees or to fast and desire nothing else but that thing out of love. Hannah prayed so ferfently so deeply because she desired a child so much from the Lord. Christians can be frustrated in struggling with a certain kind of sin in their life. This is a good frustration to have because it leads them into being like a Hannah so as to draw closer to God and to distance themselves farther away from this world (And yet be in the world so as to shine the Light and Love of God unto other people). It leads them into paths of righteousness for His name sake.
Having good frustration does not mean you are not without peace in your soul with God. Good frustration is in addition to one's peace and love that they have in the Lord. For at the end of the day, they do not let that frustration consume them or place them into a state of fear or worry or panic. Good frustration merely shows that you care for others and or for oneself.
Last edited: