The Mystery Revealed

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
Um think you got your wires crossed here. Also messiah is the righteous servant. He couldnt be otherwise otherwise you looking for a king who is not righteous. JEsus is righteous AND he also rules with a rod of iron. Its just israel or specifically Judah were blinded by their own righteousness thinking they actually didnt need a saviour, just a ruler. Because they were thinking in the flesh and worldly terms. Again as Isaiah asks who will believe our message??
No my friend, I am just asking a question.
You and I after the events know they are one and the same

I am asking how any OT person could see them as the same.

This is part of the mystery, The fact messiah was the suffereing servant in Is 53 was a mystery

Why did God do this, that is my question.
 

Lanolin

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#22
Again, Can you explain the different characteristics of the one in Is 53 and those concerning the messiah (where he was named)

For example.

Is IS 53, it is said this one wil die a horrific death
Accoding to the messianic prophesies, We are told he will never die


Is Is 53 this person is said to be homely and looked down on
According to messianic prophesies, he is said to be looked up to.


These are just a few.

The one in Is 53 is a suffering servant who will die for the sins of the people
Messiah is called the king who will Rule wiht a rod of Iron


(I believe they are one and the same people. I am just asking how a person in the OT could know this?
You got to read the whole chapter. Verses 10 onward address this.

A person in the OT must have faith. Without faith, its impossible to please God. All the people listed in hebrews 11 had faith. Job had faith, he declared My redeemer lives. They could see beyond this world to eternity and the promise God gave them. Often they call it the world to come. Even book of Ecclesiastes shows the vanity and futility in thinking this is the only life there is and points to the eternal Glory of God. The preacher who wrote it was king solomon they say and even with all his vast wealth and rule could not be happy and satisfied.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#23
You got to read the whole chapter. Verses 10 onward address this.

A person in the OT must have faith. Without faith, its impossible to please God. All the people listed in hebrews 11 had faith. Job had faith, he declared My redeemer lives. They could see beyond this world to eternity and the promise God gave them. Often they call it the world to come. Even book of Ecclesiastes shows the vanity and futility in thinking this is the only life there is and points to the eternal Glory of God. The preacher who wrote it was king solomon they say and even with all his vast wealth and rule could not be happy and satisfied.
I am sorry, I do not think you understand what I am saying. Your not answering my questions, the answers you are giving are not related to what I am asking,

Thanks for trying though
 

Lanolin

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#24
No my friend, I am just asking a question.
You and I after the events know they are one and the same

I am asking how any OT person could see them as the same.

This is part of the mystery, The fact messiah was the suffereing servant in Is 53 was a mystery

Why did God do this, that is my question.
Why did God do this?

Well many reasons I will say one of them is so the gentiles can also come in and be His people. Because he was thinking of ALL mankind in John 3:16.
Because He loves us
Because it as a glory of God to conceal a thing but the honour of kings to search out a matter see Proverbs 25:2
 

Lanolin

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#25
I am sorry, I do not think you understand what I am saying. Your not answering my questions, the answers you are giving are not related to what I am asking,

Thanks for trying though
Aw I pray God will reveal to you whatevers mystifying you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
Why did God do this?

Well many reasons I will say one of them is so the gentiles can also come in and be His people. Because he was thinking of ALL mankind in John 3:16.
Because He loves us
Because it as a glory of God to conceal a thing but the honour of kings to search out a matter see Proverbs 25:2
How is God keeping a mystery of who the suffering servant would be help the gentiles? I am confused.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
Aw I pray God will reveal to you whatevers mystifying you.
I have an answer I know what I believe, I was trying to share that belief with you. By tryign to draw out with the questions I was asking.

It is why the disciples could not understand why Jesus had to die. They could not understand he was the suffering servant. Because there was no way possible. For the reasons I gave (the two people were seen as different people)



There is a reason God made it a mystery, what was that reason?
 

Lanolin

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#28
Nayborbear bear gave a good answer he referenced Isaiah which also Paul referenced when asked why it wasnt revealed or some people couldnt understand because blindness has come in part to Israel. So that the gentiles could come in, remember the messiah is also a light to the gentiles.
 

Lanolin

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#29
I have an answer I know what I believe, I was trying to share that belief with you. By tryign to draw out with the questions I was asking.

It is why the disciples could not understand why Jesus had to die. They could not understand he was the suffering servant. Because there was no way possible. For the reasons I gave (the two people were seen as different people)


There is a reason God made it a mystery, what was that reason?
Check out luke 8:10
 

Lanolin

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#31
Eternally grateful if you already know why you asking?

Lol. See the irony of this....
 

Lanolin

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#32
This does not answer my question.

Again, I do not think you understand what I am saying
Yea I understand you just playing with me. Sigh. If I dont understsnd you are deliberatley not being clear.
 

Lanolin

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#33
Yea I will just post questions I already know the answer to...just to confuse everyone. Fun times.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#34
Can you show in the OT where it says MESSIAH will die on a cross?

I think this was part of the mystery, Is that the OT did not say the messiah would die on the cross.. And it was hidden for a reason.
Again, Can you explain the different characteristics of the one in Is 53 and those concerning the messiah (where he was named)

For example.

Is IS 53, it is said this one wil die a horrific death
Accoding to the messianic prophesies, We are told he will never die


Is Is 53 this person is said to be homely and looked down on
According to messianic prophesies, he is said to be looked up to.


These are just a few.

The one in Is 53 is a suffering servant who will die for the sins of the people
Messiah is called the king who will Rule wiht a rod of Iron


(I believe they are one and the same people. I am just asking how a person in the OT could know this?

Is like Jesus said in His "coming like a thief in the night." They should in "hindsight" know! As it is with the thief in the night analogy? One doesn't "realize", until AFTER the deed is done!

Jeremiah 30
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will NOT leave thee altogether Unpunished.
Now, this could include the holocaust, during WWII? This could include the blindness on the part of Israel, until the fulness of the gentiles be come? Could also include both! Perhaps, even more!

Psalms 22 also includes that which was done on the cross! Though, a "Cross" is not specifically mentioned. The "deeds done" included in the psalms are that which transpired, however. Further along in the Psalm, in verse 31, and 32 could be taken as the Good News being spread amongst the gentiles too!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
Nayborbear bear gave a good answer he referenced Isaiah which also Paul referenced when asked why it wasnt revealed or some people couldnt understand because blindness has come in part to Israel. So that the gentiles could come in, remember the messiah is also a light to the gentiles.
The Prophet Isaiah said the person would die

The same prophet in Is 9 said he will never die. (his government will never end)

This is just one example

They contradict each other. WHY?

It is not so gentiles can believe.. Both Gentile and Jew alike had to after the ressurection agree that Is 53 spoke of Christs FIRST advent (hint hint)
 

GraceAndTruth

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Sep 28, 2015
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#36
Jesus Christ said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. It is the only MUST required.

Since we are born again by God's grace.....1 Peter 1:3........as ever His sovereignty over man's salvation is asserted once again.

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Eph. 2:10

The mystery was revealed in fullness when the bible was complete...........when the perfect came.
God has revealed all of Himself that we need to know.

I don't know why some folks knock themselves out over some "revelation" they found.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
Yea I understand you just playing with me. Sigh. If I dont understsnd you are deliberatley not being clear.
Whatever dude. If you think people trying to draw an answer from you is them playing with you. You have some issues.

your the one playing,

Here I will give you an answer

Who is the one who was given the power to put Jesus to death,

Who is the one who had to make sure Messiah Died?

Who is the one who was humiliated when Jesus quoted the 52nd psalm.

Satan.

God needed to hide the identification of who the suffering servant would be, If satan Knew the messiah and suffering servant were one and the same, SATAN would have done ALL he could do to PREVENT the derath of Christ, Not make sure it happened.

what was the purpose of the hidden mystery?

Jesus PROVED SATAN WRONG
Jesus DESTROYED SATANS LIE
And Jesus PUT THEM TO SHAME by DISARMING them, and making a PUBLIC SPECACLE of them, in doing so. HE TRIUMPHED over them/


Col 2: 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

God used Satan to destroy his own lie wbout who God was. By using satans HATE of God and his sent son to expose his TRUE feelings.. and at the same time PROVE beyond any shaddow of a doubt GODS TRUE AND PERFECT LOVE
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
Is like Jesus said in His "coming like a thief in the night." They should in "hindsight" know! As it is with the thief in the night analogy? One doesn't "realize", until AFTER the deed is done!

Jeremiah 30
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will NOT leave thee altogether Unpunished.
Now, this could include the holocaust, during WWII? This could include the blindness on the part of Israel, until the fulness of the gentiles be come? Could also include both! Perhaps, even more!

Psalms 22 also includes that which was done on the cross! Though, a "Cross" is not specifically mentioned. The "deeds done" included in the psalms are that which transpired, however. Further along in the Psalm, in verse 31, and 32 could be taken as the Good News being spread amongst the gentiles too!
You still do not understand my question. This does not answer WHY the characteristics of the suffering servant and the characteristic of the messiah were appearantly apposed.

No one knew the messiah would come twice, they only could see him as coming once.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
Yea I understand you just playing with me. Sigh. If I dont understsnd you are deliberatley not being clear.
How much clearer could I be

Why where the characteristics of the suffering servant and the messiah totally different?