The neo-Gnostic spirit of New.Modern.Hyper Grace

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Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
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#1
I want to start this thread as a means of documenting the similarities between new.modern.hyper grace beliefs and gnostic beliefs in the early church period.

We have as our witness to what gnostics believed the writings of Ireneaus (Against Heresies), who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John. So he was only one generation removed from the apostles' teachings. His witness is important because he learned what the gnostics believed from them, and thus is able to contrast what they believed with what the early church believed.

I'll start with pertinent information from Against Heresies (chapter VI). I've added [bracketed words] for clarification and easier reading, and bolded those things that I've noticed in new.modern.hyper grace teachings. I'll add comments as opportunities arise.

2. Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.

3. Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the "most perfect" among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that "they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." ...

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, [the gnostics] run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
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#2
Below is a post from another thread that shows the similarity between the new.modern.hyper grace belief and gnostic belief that nothing can be done to jeopardize salvation. This is due to a spiritual union with Christ (the indescribable conjunction of the gnostics) that transforms one into an eternal spirit being that cannot be corrupted by sin or lost. Compare this with paragraphs 2 and 4 above.

I said faith has no merit. And that is in and of itself. Christ has the merit. He saved us based upon our choice to believe in Him. My belief didn't have the saving power, Christ has the saving power.

Peter it is why we can go apostate, be faithless, fall from grace, revile Christ..............and still be saved, because the merit in salvation is CHRIST and CHRIST alone. NOT our faith.

If we are faithless, He remains faithful. Because He cannot deny Himself. The moment we believe HE makes us a part of HIS body.

Acts 16:31, read it and believe it my friend.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
687
113
#3
Here is a post from another thread that clearly shows the new.modern.hyper grace belief that salvation is by grace apart from faith and right conduct. This is similar to the gnostic belief that they received grace as their special possession through an indescribable conjunction (union) with Christ that could not be taken away from them no matter what they did (compare Against Heresies above)

The MOMENT any man believes, CHRIST saves them. Acts 16:31 and the aorist tense of believe proves this. If the next moment the believer picks up the bottle and stays on the bottle.............he is saved, because salvation is dependent on GRACE, not faith. Faith was a moment in time, grace is eternal.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
77
0
#4
I want to start this thread as a means of documenting the similarities between new.modern.hyper grace beliefs and gnostic beliefs in the early church period.

We have as our witness to what gnostics believed the writings of Ireneaus (Against Heresies), who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John. So he was only one generation removed from the apostles' teachings. His witness is important because he learned what the gnostics believed from them, and thus is able to contrast what they believed with what the early church believed.

I'll start with pertinent information from Against Heresies (chapter VI). I've added [bracketed words] for clarification and easier reading, and bolded those things that I've noticed in new.modern.hyper grace teachings. I'll add comments as opportunities arise.

2. Animal men, again, are instructed in animal things; such men, namely, as are established by their works, and by a mere faith, while they have not perfect knowledge. We of the Church, [the gnostics] say, are these persons. Wherefore also they maintain that good works are necessary to us, for that otherwise it is impossible we should be saved. But as to themselves, [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.

3. Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the "most perfect" among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that "they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." ...

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, [the gnostics] run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For they declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection.
And thereby we know as well that the Beast was already prophesying in the world as God's witnesses were also prophesying against them at the same time. But we also see how God's words ring true when he spoke of the falling away from the faith, and that many of the saints would also be overcome by all the false doctrine and lies that would flood the world. Those who are of the world will receive it's own, but those who are born of God will hear only the Masters voice, but these false shepherds who speak by the spirit of their father the Devil, these God's elect will not hear or receive.

1 John 4:4-6 "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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#5
Below is a post from another thread that shows the similarity between the new.modern.hyper grace belief and gnostic belief that nothing can be done to jeopardize salvation. This is due to a spiritual union with Christ (the indescribable conjunction of the gnostics) that transforms one into an eternal spirit being that cannot be corrupted by sin or lost. Compare this with paragraphs 2 and 4 above.
This forum, and other forums are full of people who think this same way. Some are harder to spot than others, but if you listen to what they say long enough their errors will eventually manifest themselves in their words, being contrary to the Word of Truth, even the True faith and gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#6
True Faith To Inherit Eternal Life
[video=youtube;9eL57nAm9Lo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eL57nAm9Lo[/video]
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,833
971
113
31
#7
... [the gnostics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. ...

so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions [i.e., conduct] in which they may be involved.
This is hardly a connection between God's grace and Gnosticism. Believers in Gnosticism believe that sin couldn't be imputed to them because they were inherently spirit. They didn't believe they had sin (1 John 1:9; unlike grace believers, who acknowledge their sin but know Jesus took care of it). Sin isn't imputed to us because it was given to Christ at the cross. That is the hyper-grace stance, not in agreement with Gnosticism. It glorifies Jesus Christ and not self.

Those adhering to Gnosticism found comfort/assurance in themselves just like the self-righteous legalistic gospel individuals do. Their assurance is found in themselves. It rather seems Gnosticism and Legalism have a likeness and it is pride. Looking to self as the full measure of assurance, as the means to
why one is saved. Unlike those in agreement with "modern hyper-grace", knowing their salvation is not dependent upon themselves but the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The opposition you have against Hyper-Grace theology seems to be chalk full of stra
w man, and ignorance (respectfully). Every disagreement thus far and refuted continues to be one not posited by those who you would say fall under "new modern Hyper Grace" teaching. I suggest you read a book by a grace preacher so you can better understand what you seem to be so against.

At the moment, you aren't addressing
what some might call the "Gospel of Grace" but some imagined gospel that contradicts scripture and grace preachers themselves. You're refuting something that isn't being presented and therefore are wasting your time and those reading. Its pointless, and only further buries people in ignorance to God's grace.
 
Last edited:

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
40
0
#8
This forum, and other forums are full of people who think this same way. Some are harder to spot than others, but if you listen to what they say long enough their errors will eventually manifest themselves in their words, being contrary to the Word of Truth, even the True faith and gospel of Jesus Christ.
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe we in Christ are made perfect by following God's law. Salvation is only by faith is what I declare. But that does not mean the behavior of our old man can continue and expect our soul to remain in God's good grace. There must be a change in our behavior also, or we also will be cut off. Like you showed, for one in Christ, they will hear His voice, and will seek to follow Him and His things and not the world. Wherever one's heart is, that is where their treasure will be, and their works will show it, and how a believer shows they are of the Faith.

Like the OP showed, this Hyper-Grace movement goes against that, and is producing many who call themselves saved, while they think they don't have to make a change from their old nature, and thus they substantiate themselves in the works of the flesh instead of progressing to the works of The Spirit. That is... what Gnosticism tried to do, as it adapted only the principles in The Bible that allowed them to keep their other doctrines from Neo-Platonism.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#9
This is hardly a connection between God's grace and Gnosticism. Believers in Gnosticism believe that sin couldn't be imputed to them because they were inherently spirit. They didn't believe they had sin (1 John 1:9; unlike grace believers, who acknowledge their sin but know Jesus took care of it). Sin isn't imputed to us because it was given to Christ at the cross. That is the hyper-grace stance, not in agreement with Gnosticism. It glorifies Jesus Christ and not self.

Those adhering to Gnosticism found comfort/assurance in themselves just like the self-righteous legalistic gospel individuals do. Their assurance is found in themselves. It rather seems Gnosticism and Legalism have a likeness and it is pride. Looking to self as the full measure of assurance, as the means to
why one is saved. Unlike those in agreement with "modern hyper-grace", knowing their salvation is not dependent upon themselves but the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The opposition you have against Hyper-Grace theology seems to be chalk full of stra
w man, and ignorance (respectfully). Every disagreement thus far and refuted continues to be one not posited by those who you would say fall under "new modern Hyper Grace" teaching. I suggest you read a book by a grace preacher so you can better understand what you seem to be so against.

At the moment, you aren't addressing
what some might call the "Gospel of Grace" but some imagined gospel that contradicts scripture and grace preachers themselves. You're refuting something that isn't being presented and therefore are wasting your time and those reading. Its pointless, and only further buries people in ignorance to God's grace.
I couldn't say it any better.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,833
971
113
31
#10
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe we in Christ are made perfect by following God's law. Salvation is only by faith is what I declare. But that does not mean the behavior of our old man can continue and expect our soul to remain in God's good grace. There must be a change in our behavior also, or we also will be cut off. Like you showed, for one in Christ, they will hear His voice, and will seek to follow Him and His things and not the world. Wherever one's heart is, that is where their treasure will be, and their works will show it, and how a believer shows they are of the Faith.

Like the OP showed, this Hyper-Grace movement goes against that, and is producing many who call themselves saved, while they think they don't have to make a change from their old nature, and thus they substantiate themselves in the works of the flesh instead of progressing to the works of The Spirit. That is... what Gnosticism tried to do, as it adapted only the principles in The Bible that allowed them to keep their other doctrines from Neo-Platonism.
This is false. Hyper-Grace looks to what the scripture says and what does it say? It says to renew your mind. You see, our overcoming of sin is found in identity and when we renew our minds to the spiritual truths of God's word it manifests itself in our walk.

God's
word says that "sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but grace." That is one revelation we need to get down. Then we can move on to what the Apostle Paul said, that we should reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. Another revelation that frees us from sin's grip and transforms our walk. Something else, there is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Jesus Christ. This revelation is huge in receiving peace and rest, allowing ourselves to not be burdened by guilt but to press on in renewing our mind (unto an outward change, yet has no say in our salvation that is strictly found in Jesus Christ).

That is a misconception of presenting God's grace, that there is a license to sin. There isn't. VVe have been set free from sin's dominion and
we are to renew our minds to these truths. In doing so, our conduct is sanctified and comes in alignment with who we are in Christ.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#11
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe we in Christ are made perfect by following God's law. Salvation is only by faith is what I declare. But that does not mean the behavior of our old man can continue and expect our soul to remain in God's good grace. There must be a change in our behavior also, or we also will be cut off. Like you showed, for one in Christ, they will hear His voice, and will seek to follow Him and His things and not the world. Wherever one's heart is, that is where their treasure will be, and their works will show it, and how a believer shows they are of the Faith.

Like the OP showed, this Hyper-Grace movement goes against that, and is producing many who call themselves saved, while they think they don't have to make a change from their old nature, and thus they substantiate themselves in the works of the flesh instead of progressing to the works of The Spirit. That is... what Gnosticism tried to do, as it adapted only the principles in The Bible that allowed them to keep their other doctrines from Neo-Platonism.
If we could get past salvation, It would become clearer. Not a one of us here that preach Grace disagree with how we should live after salvation.

obedience, follow Him, Love, filled with the Spirit, walk in the Spirit.......................

The key is that this has nothing to do with the actual creation of the new creature in Christ.

We can't live like this APART from being born-again. The opposing side says we have to live like this to be saved. We can't live like this if we are NOT saved.
 
Jan 7, 2015
6,057
77
0
#12
I'm not Jewish, nor do I believe we in Christ are made perfect by following God's law. Salvation is only by faith is what I declare. But that does not mean the behavior of our old man can continue and expect our soul to remain in God's good grace. There must be a change in our behavior also, or we also will be cut off. Like you showed, for one in Christ, they will hear His voice, and will seek to follow Him and His things and not the world. Wherever one's heart is, that is where their treasure will be, and their works will show it, and how a believer shows they are of the Faith.

Like the OP showed, this Hyper-Grace movement goes against that, and is producing many who call themselves saved, while they think they don't have to make a change from their old nature, and thus they substantiate themselves in the works of the flesh instead of progressing to the works of The Spirit. That is... what Gnosticism tried to do, as it adapted only the principles in The Bible that allowed them to keep their other doctrines from Neo-Platonism.
That's right, the change on the inside by the Spirit of God will be reflected on the outside by words and actions. But these talk the talk, but suggest the walk does not matter, therein showing their error.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#13
This is false. Hyper-Grace looks to what the scripture says and what does it say? It says to renew your mind. You see, our overcoming of sin is found in identity and when we renew our minds to the spiritual truths of God's word it manifests itself in our walk.

God's
word says that "sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but grace." That is one revelation we need to get down. Then we can move on to what the Apostle Paul said, that we should reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. Another revelation that frees us from sin's grip and transforms our walk. Something else, there is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Jesus Christ. This revelation is huge in receiving peace and rest, allowing ourselves to not be burdened by guilt but to press on in renewing our mind (unto an outward change, yet has no say in our salvation that is strictly found in Jesus Christ).

That is a misconception of presenting God's grace, that there is a license to sin. There isn't. VVe have been set free from sin's dominion and
we are to renew our minds to these truths. In doing so, our conduct is sanctified and comes in alignment with who we are in Christ.
And the sad reality is the fact that if we think our battle is against sin................sin has dominion over us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#14
People that believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ do talk about both manifestations of grace...but we are constantly trying to get people over the "hurdle" of acceptance grace because of what has been religiously taught and from the traditions of men..

I will leave this short understanding of "acceptance grace".......just so that people know what is meant by "acceptance grace"...

There are 2 aspects to grace.

1) acceptance grace - which has nothing to do with our behavior - as seen with the woman caught in adultery. Our Lord beautifully says " I do not condemn you". It is in knowing you are not condemned that releases the other aspect of grace.

2) now, go and sin no more - this is empowering grace. Empowering grace enables you to be who the Father sees you are in Christ now.


The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you." The grace of God speaks of better things!

Knowing that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!

Acceptance grace which is not based on our behavior needs to be cemented in our hearts before empowering grace is able to be manifested.


What believers in a self-effort/self-performance D.I.Y. holiness/righteousness based gospel have a very hard time with is the "acceptance grace" part...this just drives them nuts...and I understand why..it is scandalous and it is offensive to some!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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#15
The other aspect to the true gospel of the grace of Christ is that it is scandalous and offensive to many people...well not for the sinners that need it..they love the "good news" of Jesus and His finished work for them....

If we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and nobody says.."What?..are you saying we can just go and sin and do what we want?"..if nobody says that...you have not preached the gospel of the grace of Christ like Paul did. He got this accusation all the time with people that have a legalistic mindset .....it's the nature of the beast...:)


 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
40
0
#16
This is hardly a connection between God's grace and Gnosticism. Believers in Gnosticism believe that sin couldn't be imputed to them because they were inherently spirit. They didn't believe they had sin (1 John 1:9; unlike grace believers, who acknowledge their sin but know Jesus took care of it). Sin isn't imputed to us because it was given to Christ at the cross. That is the hyper-grace stance, not in agreement with Gnosticism. It glorifies Jesus Christ and not self.

Those adhering to Gnosticism found comfort/assurance in themselves just like the self-righteous legalistic gospel individuals do. Their assurance is found in themselves. It rather seems Gnosticism and Legalism have a likeness and it is pride. Looking to self as the full measure of assurance, as the means to
why one is saved. Unlike those in agreement with "modern hyper-grace", knowing their salvation is not dependent upon themselves but the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The opposition you have against Hyper-Grace theology seems to be chalk full of stra
w man, and ignorance (respectfully). Every disagreement thus far and refuted continues to be one not posited by those who you would say fall under "new modern Hyper Grace" teaching. I suggest you read a book by a grace preacher so you can better understand what you seem to be so against.

At the moment, you aren't addressing
what some might call the "Gospel of Grace" but some imagined gospel that contradicts scripture and grace preachers themselves. You're refuting something that isn't being presented and therefore are wasting your time and those reading. Its pointless, and only further buries people in ignorance to God's grace.
I disagree, Gnosticism tried to supplant the work of Jesus on the cross its true, as they believed that He didn't actually die on the cross, but was removed before He died and lived a long life afterwards, however, that is a supplanting of The Gospel with something else, and that's where the similarity comes.

In the New Testament, we are shown plenty about God's grace through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, but also the fact of the requirement of 'continued repentance' when we sin thereafter (1 John 1). That NT principle the Hyper-Grace movement tries to supplant, with saying the believer has no further need of repentance to Christ after they have believed on Him and been baptized. That idea goes even against the prayer our Lord Jesus gave us to pray, asking forgiveness of our sins when we pray it, as it also goes against one of the main reasons we do Holy Communion with Christ Jesus which is for inspecting ourselves and communing with Him about it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
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#17
And that would be...Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance

Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?

Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned).

It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.

In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace.

A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.
The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind. It’s what the word literally means.

In the words of Watchman Nee:

Repentance … means a change of mind! Formerly I thought sin a pleasant thing, but now I have changed my mind about it; formerly I thought the world an attractive place, but now I know better; formerly I regarded it a miserable business to be a Christian, but now I think differently. Once I thought certain things delightful, now I think them vile; once I thought other things utterly worthless, now I think them most precious. That is a change of mind, and that is repentance. No life can be truly changed apart from such a change of mind. (The Normal Christian Life, p.132)

We all agree that repentance is a good thing and that there should be more of it, but how do we get people to repent? A mixed-grace preacher will use carrots (“Turn from sin if you want to see God”) and sticks (“If you don’t, you’ll pay the price”), but this is the way of the flesh, not faith.

This sort of repentance will lead you to trust in your own repenting efforts and miss grace. Consider the Pharisees. They turned from sin on a daily basis yet they did not recognize the Grace of God even as He came and stood among them.

Mixed-grace preachers say, “We need more preaching on repentance,” as though this would motivate people to repent. But it won’t. Only one thing is guaranteed in scripture to lead people to repentance and that is a revelation of God’s goodness:

… God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. (Romans 2:4b, ESV)

Repentance isn’t doing something about your sin. Repentance is responding positively to God’s kindness and grace…

How does a hyper-grace preacher encourage repentance? By preaching the goodness of God as revealed in Jesus. A mixed gospel says, “You gotta repent or else,” but the hyper-grace gospel says, “See Jesus!” Old covenant repentance puts the focus on you and your badness, but new covenant repentance puts the focus on Him and His goodness.

When you see the Lord of grace looking at you with love and affection, you will repent. You will turn from sin to Him not because you have been bribed with carrots or threatened with sticks but because Jesus is more attractive than anything this world offers.

He is the Beauty who draws us to Himself.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
40
0
#18
This is false. Hyper-Grace looks to what the scripture says and what does it say? It says to renew your mind. You see, our overcoming of sin is found in identity and when we renew our minds to the spiritual truths of God's word it manifests itself in our walk.

God's
word says that "sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but grace." That is one revelation we need to get down. Then we can move on to what the Apostle Paul said, that we should reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God. Another revelation that frees us from sin's grip and transforms our walk. Something else, there is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Jesus Christ. This revelation is huge in receiving peace and rest, allowing ourselves to not be burdened by guilt but to press on in renewing our mind (unto an outward change, yet has no say in our salvation that is strictly found in Jesus Christ).

That is a misconception of presenting God's grace, that there is a license to sin. There isn't. VVe have been set free from sin's dominion and
we are to renew our minds to these truths. In doing so, our conduct is sanctified and comes in alignment with who we are in Christ.
Like I said before, anything that tries to supplant our continued need for repentance is the same kind of supplanting of Christian doctrine that the Gnostics tried to do. Continuing to ask Christ forgiveness and repenting is an on-going work that keeps us in Him, and that is what He expects of us to continue in the walk with Him, just as we would do with a loving biological father. And like Apostle John said, He is faithful to forgive us and cleanse of the sin when we do that.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
40
0
#19
And that would be...Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance

Hyper-grace preachers say there’s no need for repentance. They dismiss repentance as unbelief.” Actually, hyper-grace preachers are for repentance, not against it. We say things like “repentance is essential” and “repentance is to be our lifestyle.” We are for repentance, for without it no one can receive the grace of God.
But what is repentance?

Repentance is one of those words that means different things to different people. Those with a performance-oriented mindset typically interpret repentance as turning from sin. It’s something you do (turn) as a result of something you’ve done (sinned).

It’s fixing what you broke. It’s atoning for your mistakes. It’s sewing fig leaves to hide your shame.

In contrast, faith-based repentance is always done in response to something God has done. It’s the change of heart and mind that happens when you encounter His grace.

A mixed-grace gospel will define repentance in terms of a prescribed set of behaviors (e.g., turning from sin) and emotions (e.g., sorrow and grief). But insisting on the proper way to repent is tantamount to putting people under law.
The fruit of repentance may take 101 different forms—don’t limit God—but repentance itself is simply a change of mind. It’s what the word literally means.

In the words of Watchman Nee:

Repentance … means a change of mind! Formerly I thought sin a pleasant thing, but now I have changed my mind about it; formerly I thought the world an attractive place, but now I know better; formerly I regarded it a miserable business to be a Christian, but now I think differently. Once I thought certain things delightful, now I think them vile; once I thought other things utterly worthless, now I think them most precious. That is a change of mind, and that is repentance. No life can be truly changed apart from such a change of mind. (The Normal Christian Life, p.132)

We all agree that repentance is a good thing and that there should be more of it, but how do we get people to repent? A mixed-grace preacher will use carrots (“Turn from sin if you want to see God”) and sticks (“If you don’t, you’ll pay the price”), but this is the way of the flesh, not faith.

This sort of repentance will lead you to trust in your own repenting efforts and miss grace. Consider the Pharisees. They turned from sin on a daily basis yet they did not recognize the Grace of God even as He came and stood among them.

Mixed-grace preachers say, “We need more preaching on repentance,” as though this would motivate people to repent. But it won’t. Only one thing is guaranteed in scripture to lead people to repentance and that is a revelation of God’s goodness:

… God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance. (Romans 2:4b, ESV)

Repentance isn’t doing something about your sin. Repentance is responding positively to God’s kindness and grace…

How does a hyper-grace preacher encourage repentance? By preaching the goodness of God as revealed in Jesus. A mixed gospel says, “You gotta repent or else,” but the hyper-grace gospel says, “See Jesus!” Old covenant repentance puts the focus on you and your badness, but new covenant repentance puts the focus on Him and His goodness.

When you see the Lord of grace looking at you with love and affection, you will repent. You will turn from sin to Him not because you have been bribed with carrots or threatened with sticks but because Jesus is more attractive than anything this world offers.

He is the Beauty who draws us to Himself.
Sorry, but that is just a philosophical idea disregarding the simple matter Apostle John showed us in 1 John 1, that as believers we are expected to continue in repentance as we mess up, asking Jesus to forgive us. It's not something that He initiates, it's something we... must initiate with Him to stay in the walk with Him. It's one of the major purposes of hold Holy Communion with Him, and why Apostle Paul warned of the bad things that can come to those who hold that communion in a unworthly manner.
 
Jan 7, 2015
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This is false. Hyper-Grace looks to what the scripture says and what does it say? It says to renew your mind. You see, our overcoming of sin is found in identity and when we renew our minds to the spiritual truths of God's word it manifests itself in our walk.
This is what I was talking about earlier about their words exposing their errors, sometimes ever so subtle. I have heard this mentioned by several others of the hyper grace followers, it's like a recorded message without knowledge of how the Holy Spirit works. They say things like "we have to realize our identity" or "we have to understand our identity" or "we need to know our place in Christ" or "we have to renew our minds".

It is like "they" think they can take thought and renew their own minds. Or "they" can imagine themselves as righteous in Christ, even though they are wretched, miserable, and naked.

People, you did not give birth to yourself the first time, and you cannot take thought and give birth to yourself a second time and renew your own mind and declare yourself righteous! Proclaiming yourself as righteous is "self" righteousness.

Here is what is written, and notice there is no mention of us, that is "we" "ourselves" renewing our own mind.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

This renewing of the mind only happens when a person is born again from above by the Holy Spirit, this "we" cannot perform "ourselves".