I never condemned anything of the sort, but I don't think it to be a good practice on this site concerning personal convictions in the truth. Occasionally, if you need a third party to convey their perspective on things, that's fine, but to do it as a practice because you don't want to be held to your own convictions and understanding of specific doctrines, that's not good nor is it honest. So, Abiding Stiffneck, do you agree or do you remained hardened?
The Ninety-Five Theses Against Dispensationalism
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A
mmm found this as a summary, but i'm sure its more complicated ....
Theological Studies - What is Dispensationalism?
I think we are believed to be in the 6th dispensation at present and the return of Christ and rapture is needed to occur before the 7th according to this theology.
summary 7 dispensations or ages throughout history. don't believe 70 weeks of Daniel are fulfilled. God has a special separate plan for Israel after rapture of church which they believe is before the Tribulation. both sides have numerous scriptures and logic to back up their beliefs.
anyways..no worries right?
Matthew 6:34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.
Theological Studies - What is Dispensationalism?
I think we are believed to be in the 6th dispensation at present and the return of Christ and rapture is needed to occur before the 7th according to this theology.
summary 7 dispensations or ages throughout history. don't believe 70 weeks of Daniel are fulfilled. God has a special separate plan for Israel after rapture of church which they believe is before the Tribulation. both sides have numerous scriptures and logic to back up their beliefs.
anyways..no worries right?
Matthew 6:34
Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.
personal convictions:
Dispensational Theology is false.
injected into Christianity by the Synagogue of Satan.
chopped up Redemptive History, reshuffled the scriptures, inserted GAPS. serving an obvious purpose.
JESUS IS NOT KING - SUPPORT FASCIST ISRAEL
thoroughly debunked.
100% corruption.
easily proven. done. unmasked.
Dispensational Theology is false.
injected into Christianity by the Synagogue of Satan.
chopped up Redemptive History, reshuffled the scriptures, inserted GAPS. serving an obvious purpose.
JESUS IS NOT KING - SUPPORT FASCIST ISRAEL
thoroughly debunked.
100% corruption.
easily proven. done. unmasked.
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Yeah...another thing I've noticed on other forums...people are very worried about the end of the world and what's going to happen then. Why can't we just focus on what is happening now and worry about the future when it gets here? I mean, preparing for the future is one thing, but always dwelling on it and focusing on that and that only... isn't that just a bit overkill?
the toxic core of dispensational theology is not its "end-times" scenario (eschatology).
it is its israeo-centric overlay, destroying the Christo-centric reality.
it makes an eternal distinction between "israel" and the church, making Jesus part of a fake scheme to offer the jews a literal political earthly kingdom, then withdraw the offer when rejected UNTIL A FUTURE TIME.....and go to the cross INSTEAD/ANYWAYS (for the "mystery Plan B church").....then later, God's REAL PLAN (we are told) to make ISRAEL the focal point of the eternal plan takes place in the fantasy millennium.
dispensational theology changes EVERYTHING about God's Will, Person and Plan.
'the Pharisees' hit RESTART on everything after Jesus actually came and Finished His Work.
it is its israeo-centric overlay, destroying the Christo-centric reality.
it makes an eternal distinction between "israel" and the church, making Jesus part of a fake scheme to offer the jews a literal political earthly kingdom, then withdraw the offer when rejected UNTIL A FUTURE TIME.....and go to the cross INSTEAD/ANYWAYS (for the "mystery Plan B church").....then later, God's REAL PLAN (we are told) to make ISRAEL the focal point of the eternal plan takes place in the fantasy millennium.
dispensational theology changes EVERYTHING about God's Will, Person and Plan.
'the Pharisees' hit RESTART on everything after Jesus actually came and Finished His Work.
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as you know ana...
Daniel 9 fulfilled by Jesus.
no separate Gospel or Plan for anybody.
the Church is believing Israel expanded.
Christ returns at the Second Advent.....END REDEMPTIVE HISTORY.
jews need Jesus NOW.
Dispensational theology created Christian Zionism - the killing machine for the Synagogue of Satan.
Daniel 9 fulfilled by Jesus.
no separate Gospel or Plan for anybody.
the Church is believing Israel expanded.
Christ returns at the Second Advent.....END REDEMPTIVE HISTORY.
jews need Jesus NOW.
Dispensational theology created Christian Zionism - the killing machine for the Synagogue of Satan.
Scofield: Zionism's Un-Christian Bible
Maidhc Ó Cathail has written a provocative and thought provoking article about the influence of the Scofield Reference Bible on American fundamentalism and the Middle East.He shows how the Scofield Bible made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans.
Stephen Sizer: Scofield: Zionism's Un-Christian Bible
Maidhc Ó Cathail has written a provocative and thought provoking article about the influence of the Scofield Reference Bible on American fundamentalism and the Middle East.He shows how the Scofield Bible made uncompromising Zionists out of tens of millions of Americans.
Stephen Sizer: Scofield: Zionism's Un-Christian Bible
[SIZE=+1]Chapter 5: Cyrus Ingerson Scofield[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (1843-1921) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Author of the Scofield Reference Bible[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Author of the Scofield Reference Bible[/SIZE]
1. Scofield: The Christian Leader with Feet of Clay
2. The Link between Darby and Scofield in the Rise of Dispensationalism
3. Scofield's Dispensational Hermeneutic: 'Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth'.
4. Scofield, the Brethren and the Bible Prophecy Conference Movement
5. The Significance of the Scofield Reference Bible
6. Scofield's Seven Dispensations
7. The Denigration of the Church within the Purposes of God
8. The Elevation of National Israel to a Superior Role over the Church
9. Prophetic Promises of a New Covenant with a Restored National Israel
10. Speculations on Armageddon and the Day of the Lord
11. Conclusions: The Legacy of Scofieldism on Christian Zionism
http://www.cc-vw.org/articles/scofield1.html
zone, you know very little about dispensationalism. You throw around terms like "israeo-centric overlay", making it seem you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Dispensationalism does NOT "destroy the Christo-centric reality". Jesus Christ is the center of EVERYTHING.
Daniel 9 is NOT yet fulfilled.
You are right that Jews need Christ now.
But this administration WILL END. The trib WILL COME. The millennial kingdom WILL COME. Satan WILL BE bound, he sure as hell isn't now.
Daniel 9 is NOT yet fulfilled.
You are right that Jews need Christ now.
But this administration WILL END. The trib WILL COME. The millennial kingdom WILL COME. Satan WILL BE bound, he sure as hell isn't now.
anyone wishing to cast off and destroy the stronghold of Dispensational theology can do as CULT survivors have always done: look for testimonies of those whom the Lord has already delivered; seek the fellowship of others who will understand, and rest assured The Lord will deliver.
a short, easy to read testimony with exegesis (excerpts here):
WHY I LEFT SCOFIELDISM
[SIZE=+1]by[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]William E.Cox[/SIZE]
Breaking away from the fascinating teachings of The Scofield Reference Bible was one of the most difficult decisions of my entire life. Even after doubts arose in my mind, it took some seven or eight years to relinquish the ready-made theological clothing I had worn since the day of my conversion. For I was saved, at the age of sixteen, in a Baptist church where almost everyone carried a Scofield Bible. My spiritual tutors knew the footnotes and headings placed in the Bible by C. I. Scofield as well as they knew the Bible itself. Indeed, the two had become almost synonymous in their minds even as they were destined to become in my own mind. Even today it is difficult at times to clear my mind of some of Scofield's presuppositions when I study God's Word.
~
Getting back to the dissecting of my beliefs, it was disconcerting, to say the least, to find that some of my most cherished beliefs simply would not stand up under a close scriptural scrutiny. I got most of Humpty-Dumpty back together with relative ease. I could show, from the Bible, why I believed in such great doctrines as the Virgin Birth, deity of Christ, his literal Second Coming, the inspiration and infallibility of the Scriptures, believers' immersion, eternal security, perseverance of the saints, the bodily resurrection of all, the judgment, eternal heaven, an equally eternal hell, and many other cardinal doctrines.
But, try as I would, certain beliefs kept embarrassing me. For I could not find the verse and chapter to support my beliefs concerning national Israel. I had been taught that the Jews would go back to Palestine, rebuild the Temple, reinstitute the blood sacrifices, serve as Christ's missionaries during an earthly millennium, and be involved in many other related events. I was so determined to find scriptural support for these teachings that oftentimes I became angry with myself for being so lacking in Bible knowledge.
~
Finally, after some seven or eight years of searching in vain, God jolted me into reality. It finally dawned upon me that what I sincerely thought were verses of the Bible actually were footnotes put inside the covers of the Bible by a man. I acknowledged, too, that C. I. Scofield was a man. like ourselves and that he did not belong in the same authoritative category as Peter, James, and John.
I broke with Scofieldism grudgingly. He had been such a help in preparing a Sunday School lesson and, later, in "getting up a sermon." All one needed to do was to turn to the passage in mind. In most cases the headings and footnotes presented a ready outline, requiring very little study. Also, just about every Christian in my peer group seemed to agree that here was profound teaching.
~
Perhaps one of my greatest surprises came with the realization that followers of Scofield actually represented a comparatively small minority among Christians. It was only their dogmatism, plus the fact that they were so vocal, which made them appear to be in the majority. It was a comfort to learn that Scofield's "rediscovered truths," which he had learned at the feet of John Nelson Darby, a Plymouth Brethren, differed not only from most known commentaries, but from the great majority of the church fathers, and the reformers as well. I learned, too, that most of the critics of Scofieldism had, as I had, been devoted followers at one time.
Why I left Scofieldism
a short, easy to read testimony with exegesis (excerpts here):
WHY I LEFT SCOFIELDISM
[SIZE=+1]by[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]William E.Cox[/SIZE]
Breaking away from the fascinating teachings of The Scofield Reference Bible was one of the most difficult decisions of my entire life. Even after doubts arose in my mind, it took some seven or eight years to relinquish the ready-made theological clothing I had worn since the day of my conversion. For I was saved, at the age of sixteen, in a Baptist church where almost everyone carried a Scofield Bible. My spiritual tutors knew the footnotes and headings placed in the Bible by C. I. Scofield as well as they knew the Bible itself. Indeed, the two had become almost synonymous in their minds even as they were destined to become in my own mind. Even today it is difficult at times to clear my mind of some of Scofield's presuppositions when I study God's Word.
~
Getting back to the dissecting of my beliefs, it was disconcerting, to say the least, to find that some of my most cherished beliefs simply would not stand up under a close scriptural scrutiny. I got most of Humpty-Dumpty back together with relative ease. I could show, from the Bible, why I believed in such great doctrines as the Virgin Birth, deity of Christ, his literal Second Coming, the inspiration and infallibility of the Scriptures, believers' immersion, eternal security, perseverance of the saints, the bodily resurrection of all, the judgment, eternal heaven, an equally eternal hell, and many other cardinal doctrines.
But, try as I would, certain beliefs kept embarrassing me. For I could not find the verse and chapter to support my beliefs concerning national Israel. I had been taught that the Jews would go back to Palestine, rebuild the Temple, reinstitute the blood sacrifices, serve as Christ's missionaries during an earthly millennium, and be involved in many other related events. I was so determined to find scriptural support for these teachings that oftentimes I became angry with myself for being so lacking in Bible knowledge.
~
Finally, after some seven or eight years of searching in vain, God jolted me into reality. It finally dawned upon me that what I sincerely thought were verses of the Bible actually were footnotes put inside the covers of the Bible by a man. I acknowledged, too, that C. I. Scofield was a man. like ourselves and that he did not belong in the same authoritative category as Peter, James, and John.
I broke with Scofieldism grudgingly. He had been such a help in preparing a Sunday School lesson and, later, in "getting up a sermon." All one needed to do was to turn to the passage in mind. In most cases the headings and footnotes presented a ready outline, requiring very little study. Also, just about every Christian in my peer group seemed to agree that here was profound teaching.
~
Perhaps one of my greatest surprises came with the realization that followers of Scofield actually represented a comparatively small minority among Christians. It was only their dogmatism, plus the fact that they were so vocal, which made them appear to be in the majority. It was a comfort to learn that Scofield's "rediscovered truths," which he had learned at the feet of John Nelson Darby, a Plymouth Brethren, differed not only from most known commentaries, but from the great majority of the church fathers, and the reformers as well. I learned, too, that most of the critics of Scofieldism had, as I had, been devoted followers at one time.
Why I left Scofieldism
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Don't listen to Zone because she will only confuse you with all this information that she puts out. She's is very wrong but does not want to hear it and that is why she puts out all that information. Zone loves God but concerning this end time stuff she can't be trusted. Hopefully, some day she will see the error of her way through the goodness of God and turn from her error. Many of us are trusting God for that very thing and I hope you do also.
hey lilchristian.
it does deal with a lot of endtime stuff.
the pretrib rapture, an earthly kingdom all that comes from it.
what i meant was that those ideas are not in scripture, and are tied in to the overall approach, or method. the entire system is false.
it has permeated many many other issues, and they are marked by GAPS.
the whole system is a set of doctrines of devils given to men a long time ago through the occult.
one GAP theory that is hooked to the system is that the prophet Joel's prophesy of Pentecost didn't JUST apply to Pentecost...that because God through Joel used the words "in those days" this particular GAP theory tells people God meant that would happen in the final days just before The Second Advent (i.e: today)
Joel 2:29
Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. (or in the last days)
Peter stated plainly that Joel's prophesy was FULFILLED at Pentecost:
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17“‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
~ the truth is that in the last days, in those days refers to the PERIOD THAT BEGAN AT THE FIRST ADVENT.
Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost.
this GAP theory has opened the door to New Apostles and Prophets in the final days - sometimes called Latter Rain (something scripture does NOT say will happen in a postive sense, gifts from God):
The New Apostolic Reformation is a movement in Protestant Christianity largely associated with the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. The basic thesis asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Apostolic_Reformation
the solution to these problems is closing the GAPS that were inserted.
the unity of Redemptive History is flowing and unbroken, and simple.
First Advent...........>..........eschaton (endtimes)..Second Advent > Eternity
it does deal with a lot of endtime stuff.
the pretrib rapture, an earthly kingdom all that comes from it.
what i meant was that those ideas are not in scripture, and are tied in to the overall approach, or method. the entire system is false.
it has permeated many many other issues, and they are marked by GAPS.
the whole system is a set of doctrines of devils given to men a long time ago through the occult.
one GAP theory that is hooked to the system is that the prophet Joel's prophesy of Pentecost didn't JUST apply to Pentecost...that because God through Joel used the words "in those days" this particular GAP theory tells people God meant that would happen in the final days just before The Second Advent (i.e: today)
Joel 2:29
Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. (or in the last days)
Peter stated plainly that Joel's prophesy was FULFILLED at Pentecost:
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17“‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
~ the truth is that in the last days, in those days refers to the PERIOD THAT BEGAN AT THE FIRST ADVENT.
Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost.
this GAP theory has opened the door to New Apostles and Prophets in the final days - sometimes called Latter Rain (something scripture does NOT say will happen in a postive sense, gifts from God):
The New Apostolic Reformation is a movement in Protestant Christianity largely associated with the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements. The basic thesis asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Apostolic_Reformation
the solution to these problems is closing the GAPS that were inserted.
the unity of Redemptive History is flowing and unbroken, and simple.
First Advent...........>..........eschaton (endtimes)..Second Advent > Eternity
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shroom: explain how and more importantly WHY Daniel 9 is not fulfilled please.
this is one key to dispensationalism, is it not?
apparently we need a GAP. and we will see it in a dispensational interpretation of Daniel 9.
ty
zone.
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
this is one key to dispensationalism, is it not?
apparently we need a GAP. and we will see it in a dispensational interpretation of Daniel 9.
ty
zone.
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.