The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".

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Mar 4, 2020
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How many times does God have to say something before it is true?
It’s true, but there isn’t enough information about it to understand clearly from my perspective. When is it true: always, sometimes, conditionally? Was it true for certain people but not everyone? How is it logically consistent? A destiny isn’t an offer, maybe we need to look at it from a different perspective? More questions than answers.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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nope

faith is not doing

faith is trusting.

If your faith is in doing, your faith is in yourself. not God because he has done it all
Faith is start with trusting

Noah trusting God‘s information of the coming float
than doing build an ark base his trusting
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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We’re saved by the Person of Jesus Christ through faith in His death and resurrection…not His teachings.

Romans 10:9-10 KJV
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The believer do obey His command
that is why Jesus say the sheep in Matt 25 was a group that have love the needy
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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According to 1 Cor 2:14, the un-regenerant person has no spiritual faith. but the regenerated person according to Eph 2:1-5, and Gal 5:22 has been given spiritual faith by the sovereign grace of God. Spiritual faith being a fruit of the Holy Spirit which indwells those quickened to a spiritual life.
That the one have Holy Spirit in will bear fruit

have pure love as Jesus say in Matt 25:34-41
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Faith is start with trusting

Noah trusting God‘s information of the coming float
than doing build an ark base his trusting
Yes and if Noah and his family didn’t do something then they, too, would have been killed by the flood.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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That's your opinion.
You can't actually prove that because your perspective arrived cobbling together verses you prefer in order to sustain your doctrine.

Whereas Jesus synopsized the old testament prophecies of his coming and his arrival and ministry in a few simple words that message one fact. We do not choose God. God chooses us.

The Elect of God has meaning.
Jesus teaching in parables for the reasons he stated has purpose.

The Book of Life illumines the meaning and purpose fulfilled before the foundation of the world.

Our lives are lived catching on to what God has planned. Our faith leads us to navigate through what's ahead.

We are all following in the steps God has laid forth for us.
God is absolutely sovereign.

The lot is cast into the lap;
But the whole disposing thereof is of Jehovah.
Before the foundation of the earth
God plan to create human His real plan it to put human into the garden of Eden
but if they not obey God will expel from the garden

just eat forbidden fruit cost a lot of suffering for human for 6000 years
be careful play with God
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Good question. To me that sounds like an offer is optional but destiny is not optional. Destined to accept or reject an offer which would mean someone’s fate was sealed since before they were born. That’s not an offer then.

Seems like predestination/election would be a discussed a lot more in the Bible if it was major theological point of Christianity. Predestination information in the Bible takes up about as much room as a footnote and leaves way more questions than answers.
You mean there are some to predestine to reject Christ
that mean predestine to hell?
 
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They did BECAUSE THEY HAD FAITH

They were saved the moment they said yes.
No my friend.

They were saved because they hunkered down and built a big ark, for animals and 8 people, then they got the ark when the flood came. They obeyed God. Had they not did it then the flood would have swept them all away. This is all recorded in Genesis, I recommend you begin with Genesis 1:1.

No evidence to even remotely suggest God would have built them an ark or that God would have changed His mind on account of insubordinate, obstinate, stubborn people to postpone the flood.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No my friend.

They were saved because they hunkered down and built a big ark, for animals and 8 people, then they got the ark when the flood came. They obeyed God. Had they not did it then the flood would have swept them all away. This is all recorded in Genesis, I recommend you begin with Genesis 1:1.

No evidence to even remotely suggest God would have built them an ark or that God would have changed His mind on account of insubordinate, obstinate, stubborn people to postpone the flood.
Yep had to obey
God will do what He say not cancel the flood either Noah build an ark or no

i was think why require to work build an ark

why don’t by faith Noah don’t need build anything to make faith don’t need work

Gad can do miracle to change Noah into fish for 6 month
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Yep had to obey
God will do what He say not cancel the flood either Noah build an ark or no

i was think why require to work build an ark

why don’t by faith Noah don’t need build anything to make faith don’t need work

Gad can do miracle to change Noah into fish for 6 month
Because depending on the specific task God assigns it either requires physical or mental work or it doesn’t. Here’s an example:

Hebrews 11:1
4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous when God gave approval to his gifts. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

But God never requested a sacrifice. Look through Genesis and see that there is no request for Cain and Abel to make a sacrifice. They made the sacrifice in faith, just believing, and God recognized that.

Then there is faith works. Please consider James 2.

James 2:21
21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

Abraham was specifically commanded to put his son on the altar per Genesis 22:9. That’s why Christianity is about relationship. In Christianity there are works of faith and works of action. A work of faith is believing in Christ per John 6:29 and a work of action is water baptism per Mark 16:16.

Christianity is supposed to be natural. Peoplle have a body and they think things and do things. God asks for people to do both for Him whilst sojourning on this Earth because believing and doing things is what everyone does. No additional effort required but to choose our Master and serve.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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No my friend.

They were saved because they hunkered down and built a big ark, for animals and 8 people, then they got the ark when the flood came. They obeyed God. Had they not did it then the flood would have swept them all away. This is all recorded in Genesis, I recommend you begin with Genesis 1:1.

No evidence to even remotely suggest God would have built them an ark or that God would have changed His mind on account of insubordinate, obstinate, stubborn people to postpone the flood.
you focus to much on self. Stop focusing on self and focus on God.

Until then. You will never appreciate what real faith is
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It’s true, but there isn’t enough information about it to understand clearly from my perspective. When is it true: always, sometimes, conditionally? Was it true for certain people but not everyone? How is it logically consistent? A destiny isn’t an offer, maybe we need to look at it from a different perspective? More questions than answers.
Only fallen man and his fallen reason can complicate God’s Words beyond recognition, you should have stopped at ’it’s true’.

Matthew 18:3 KJV
[3] And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The believer do obey His command
that is why Jesus say the sheep in Matt 25 was a group that have love the needy
You don’t become born again by doing Mt 25.

John 3:3 KJV
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Good question. To me that sounds like an offer is optional but destiny is not optional. Destined to accept or reject an offer which would mean someone’s fate was sealed since before they were born. That’s not an offer then.

Seems like predestination/election would be a discussed a lot more in the Bible if it was major theological point of Christianity. Predestination information in the Bible takes up about as much room as a footnote and leaves way more questions than answers.
Seems pretty simple to me. God choose some people and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children. Eph 1.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Seems pretty simple to me. God choose some people and predetermined that Jesus would adopt them as his children. Eph 1.
That’s where the uncertainty begins.

Matthew 22:14 KJV
14For many are called, but few are chosen.

John 6:37 KJV
37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

I consider a lot of verses before speaking. How do you reconcile these two verses? Feel free to check context of course. How is predestination a clear theology?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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No my friend.

They were saved because they hunkered down and built a big ark, for animals and 8 people, then they got the ark when the flood came. They obeyed God. Had they not did it then the flood would have swept them all away. This is all recorded in Genesis, I recommend you begin with Genesis 1:1.

No evidence to even remotely suggest God would have built them an ark or that God would have changed His mind on account of insubordinate, obstinate, stubborn people to postpone the flood.
The saving of Noah and his family had nothing to do with eternal salvation.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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You don’t become born again by doing Mt 25.

John 3:3 KJV
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Yep all the way around

helping the poor not make you born again but born again make you helping the needy because Holy Spirit in you turn you to more like Christ