The "others" crucified with Christ
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It's a question because 2 reviled Jesus in one text, and only 1 reviled Jesus in another text.
...that's like you and me arguing over the score of the most recent ball game. We both agree on who won, but we disagree on the score. It would make one wonder if we had seen the same game. You might be talking about Wednesday's game while I might be talking about Tuesday's game. And then we have a good laugh after realizing all that.
But after further discussion we finally get the story correct.
Plus, 2 were led out at the same time with him, and then in another text 2 were crucified LATER, after Jesus' accusation was put up over his head.
HOW can they be led out with him, and then be led out again later...unless...they were 2 different sets of 2; one set of 2 being malefactors, and the other set of 2 being thieves.?
...that's like you and me arguing over the score of the most recent ball game. We both agree on who won, but we disagree on the score. It would make one wonder if we had seen the same game. You might be talking about Wednesday's game while I might be talking about Tuesday's game. And then we have a good laugh after realizing all that.
But after further discussion we finally get the story correct. Plus, 2 were led out at the same time with him, and then in another text 2 were crucified LATER, after Jesus' accusation was put up over his head.
HOW can they be led out with him, and then be led out again later...unless...they were 2 different sets of 2; one set of 2 being malefactors, and the other set of 2 being thieves.?
From what I've read, the account with only 1 reviling Jesus was focusing on the other turning to Jesus and getting saved. But from the account with 2 reviling, that shows that the repentant thief hasn't changed his mind until later on in the day. He changed and turned to God after witnessing what Jesus was going through on the cross and what Jesus was saying as the day wore on.
I don't know about the 2 crucified later? Do you mean have their bones broken later to hasten their death? That was the same two. Jesus had already died when they checked so they killed the other 2 because a special sabbath was approaching and the Jewish leaders didn't want them hanging about.
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If I give you 2 boxes at 9am, and then come back a few hours later and give you 2 boxes, how many boxes do you have from me?
TWO....or....FOUR....?
TWO....or....FOUR....?
No matter who is a thief or a sinner.
They all committed crimes.
One person didn't believe in Jesus Christ who couldn't saved him, so he asked Jesus.
Another one believe in Jesus Christ who could saved him.
You can understand the different tones of two people by reading them carefully again.
Why is belief an important part of faith.
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Luke 23:26-31 .. Jesus is being led to Calvary.
Luke 23:32-33
32) And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33) AND WHEN THEY (they who? Jesus and two malefactors) WERE COME to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the maledfactors, on on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Jesus and two malefactors were led to Calvary and these three were crucified at this time.
There would not have been any accusation placed over his head UNTIL they were all crucified.
After the accusation was placed, this happened....
Matthew 27:37-38
37) And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
38) THEN (after his accusation was placed....THEN...) were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
Two "malefactors" were led out and crucified WITH HIM.
(malefactor)...(Jesus)...(malefactor)
THEN, after his accusation was placed, two "thieves" were crucified WITH HIM. .....
(thief)...(malefactor)...(Jesus)...(malefactor)...(thief)
Both thieves reviled Jesus.
One malefactor reviled Jesus, One did not.
How can the thieves and the malefactors be the same??
Luke 23:32-33
32) And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33) AND WHEN THEY (they who? Jesus and two malefactors) WERE COME to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the maledfactors, on on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Jesus and two malefactors were led to Calvary and these three were crucified at this time.
There would not have been any accusation placed over his head UNTIL they were all crucified.
After the accusation was placed, this happened....
Matthew 27:37-38
37) And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
38) THEN (after his accusation was placed....THEN...) were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
Two "malefactors" were led out and crucified WITH HIM.
(malefactor)...(Jesus)...(malefactor)
THEN, after his accusation was placed, two "thieves" were crucified WITH HIM. .....
(thief)...(malefactor)...(Jesus)...(malefactor)...(thief)
Both thieves reviled Jesus.
One malefactor reviled Jesus, One did not.
How can the thieves and the malefactors be the same??
Here is what is said Matthew 27:38: Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left. Mark 15:27 says the same thing: And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. So does Luke 23:32: And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And John 19:18 says the same thing. So does John 19:18: Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
Just because you are misunderstanding this does not make them four. The word "other" simply means that Christ was not crucified by Himself. Christ was deemed to be a criminal, and two "other" actual criminals were crucified with Him.
Just because you are misunderstanding this does not make them four. The word "other" simply means that Christ was not crucified by Himself. Christ was deemed to be a criminal, and two "other" actual criminals were crucified with Him.
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If I give you 2 boxes at 9am, and then come back a few hours later and give you 2 boxes, how many boxes do you have from me?
TWO....or....FOUR....?
TWO....or....FOUR....?
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I think you are missing the point of all this. It's all about the order of events. Watch your TIME WORDS.
What is the first word in Matt.27:38? It is the word "THEN" which means that which comes next is following or coming AFTER what has just preceded. What precedes verse 38? Verse 37 which tells us what event took place BEFORE the thieves were brought out to Calvary. It says "And [..the guards..] set up over his head his accusation written, "This Is Jesus The King Of The Jews". And if you read the context, a whole lot of things happened before this while they were hanging on the crosses.
Now verse 38 is going to tell us what happened after all that. Verse 38 says, "THEN were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left."
This contradicts Luke 23:33 if the Malefactors and the Thieves are the same individuals! Luke 23:33 says, "And WHEN they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him [..Jesus..], and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left."
As for John 19:18, look it up in your Interlinear. The word [one] is in brackets which means it has no corresponding Greek word. It is how they informed us when a word has been added to the text by the translaters. If you read the verse without the word one you will get a better idea of what this discussion is all about. You cannot tell the story more completely if you do not recognize the flow of the events in the story, in the timely manner that they are recorded.
These are not trick questions ... Honest!
What is the first word in Matt.27:38? It is the word "THEN" which means that which comes next is following or coming AFTER what has just preceded. What precedes verse 38? Verse 37 which tells us what event took place BEFORE the thieves were brought out to Calvary. It says "And [..the guards..] set up over his head his accusation written, "This Is Jesus The King Of The Jews". And if you read the context, a whole lot of things happened before this while they were hanging on the crosses.
Now verse 38 is going to tell us what happened after all that. Verse 38 says, "THEN were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left."
This contradicts Luke 23:33 if the Malefactors and the Thieves are the same individuals! Luke 23:33 says, "And WHEN they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him [..Jesus..], and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left."
As for John 19:18, look it up in your Interlinear. The word [one] is in brackets which means it has no corresponding Greek word. It is how they informed us when a word has been added to the text by the translaters. If you read the verse without the word one you will get a better idea of what this discussion is all about. You cannot tell the story more completely if you do not recognize the flow of the events in the story, in the timely manner that they are recorded.
These are not trick questions ... Honest!
This is the reason we should actually take time to read the scriptures
johns account
“where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”
John 19:18 KJV
marks account
“And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.”
Mark 15:27
Luke’s account
“And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Luke 23:33
Matthews account
“Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
Matthew 27:38
how is anyone counting four people crucified with Jesus ? These are four accounts of what happened and all four tell us Jesus was crucified with one sinner in his right and another in his left
whether I call a criminal a thief or a malefactor is just a matter of what word I’m using to describe the to people. You asked in another thread about quoting scripture that’s why some of us try to make sure scripture is agreeing with things we talk about
I’m not even sure the significance of the matter of how many people were crucified with Jesus but it sure isn’t a mystery it repeatedly described the same thing
johns account
“where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”
John 19:18 KJV
marks account
“And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.”
Mark 15:27
Luke’s account
“And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Luke 23:33
Matthews account
“Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
Matthew 27:38
how is anyone counting four people crucified with Jesus ? These are four accounts of what happened and all four tell us Jesus was crucified with one sinner in his right and another in his left
whether I call a criminal a thief or a malefactor is just a matter of what word I’m using to describe the to people. You asked in another thread about quoting scripture that’s why some of us try to make sure scripture is agreeing with things we talk about
I’m not even sure the significance of the matter of how many people were crucified with Jesus but it sure isn’t a mystery it repeatedly described the same thing
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Yeah they use different words a lot to say the same things just like we would all do if we were writing an account of thi bf a we saw and heard we would use different language and writing style to describe what we say
The gospels are eye witness and ear witness accounts one man standing close to the cross like John is going to see and hear slightly different things than someone standing far off
this is seen throughout the gospels they will speak of the same tesching but each one has a variance of detail showing a fuller picture of the same but the words are often different” kingdom of god is like …kingdom of heaven is like ….” Malefactors - thieves “ one accepted Jesus one didn’t v both railed upon him ect
eye witnesses aren’t untrue they just have slightly differing perspectives based upon well thier perspective view point of the event
The gospels are eye witness and ear witness accounts one man standing close to the cross like John is going to see and hear slightly different things than someone standing far off
this is seen throughout the gospels they will speak of the same tesching but each one has a variance of detail showing a fuller picture of the same but the words are often different” kingdom of god is like …kingdom of heaven is like ….” Malefactors - thieves “ one accepted Jesus one didn’t v both railed upon him ect
eye witnesses aren’t untrue they just have slightly differing perspectives based upon well thier perspective view point of the event
