The Problem of evil

[Cyberm]

What would YOU say to people who say they do not believe in God because bad things happen to good people. And what would you say to someone who experienced horrible hardship, and as a result lost their faith.

For example, Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in Sighet Transylvania in Romania. He deeply believed in Judaism ✡️. When he was 15 Nazis invaded and ended up taking him to the worst concentration camp, Auschwitz. He and his father were forced to walk to Buna after three weeks in Auschwitz. He ended up losing his faith. And in total he spent 13 months in concentration camps. We can only imagine the horrible things that happened there and the horrible things he had to endure.

He wrote a book called “Night” and it was about his experiences. He won a Nobel peace prize. And as I said, because of the evil that he was forced to go through, because of everything that happened he lost his faith.

His poem “Never shall I ever” https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/never-shall-i-forget-by-elie-wiesel/

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

In short, I would show through Biblical text that the Lord does not "do" things the way that we do things, or "think" the way we think. I would show that what the world thinks is good and wise, the Lord doesn't necessarily see things in that same way. Why? Because the "world" is under the influence of the Mind of the Devil, hence, the need for the Mind of Christ. We must be Transformed, which means that our minds and the way we think must be Transformed.

Psalm 116:15 NKJV - "Precious in the sight of the LORD Is the death of His saints."
Ecclesiastes 7:1 NKJV - "A good name is better than precious ointment, And the day of death than the day of one's birth"

And if I could not convince them that we MUST reconstruct our thoughts on the ways of God, then I would kindly give up and walk away.

 

[SomeDisciple]

So he survived the camps... and lost faith? How does that even make sense?

 

[Cyberm]

So he survived the camps... and lost faith? How does that even make sense?

The reason he lost faith is because of his experiences. He experienced horrible things. Who knows, maybe years and years after he got freed he started to pounder on his past faith and reconsider. But there was a time where his Faith wavered and he stopped believing.

 

[Runningman]

What would YOU say to people who say they do not believe in God because bad things happen to good people. And what would you say to someone who experienced horrible hardship, and as a result lost their faith.

For example, Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in Sighet Transylvania in Romania. He deeply believed in Judaism ✡️. When he was 15 Nazis invaded and ended up taking him to the worst concentration camp, Auschwitz. He and his father were forced to walk to Buna after three weeks in Auschwitz. He ended up losing his faith. And in total he spent 13 months in concentration camps. We can only imagine the horrible things that happened there and the horrible things he had to endure.

He wrote a book called “Night” and it was about his experiences. He won a Nobel peace prize. And as I said, because of the evil that he was forced to go through, because of everything that happened he lost his faith.

His poem “Never shall I ever” https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/never-shall-i-forget-by-elie-wiesel/

It can really go either way. For some people it's the hardships of life that make them seek God, while others it's the hardships of life that make them abandon God. I think it probably has something to do with our expectations versus reality.

The story of Elie Wiesel is also an image of what it'll be like for people in the great tribulation.

The Bible says tribulation is coming for God's people. Will they find a new god or will they remain faithful to the true God? Imagine being in the worst possible scenario and given the choice of life or death.

Choice 1: you get to worship Satan, live in relative comfort and survive.
Choice 2: You get to be ostracized from the economy, society, and persecuted but you keep your faith in Christ.
Choice 3: there literally are no other choices.

Would you sell your soul to the devil for a Big Mac or lay down your life spending your final days in hunger, poverty, persecution, and/or martyrdom?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

It's as if the Jews forgot about Egypt, Babylon, Romans of 70 A.D., the Muslim wars, because what Hitler did in modern times is really not much different. But as a member of a Sephardim Yiddish Family, I am amazed at how many of the Sephardim, Mizrahi, Ashkenazic, and Ethiopian Jews, who AFTER the Holocaust, cut themselves and future family member still to this very day from Following Yahweh. They went 100% Atheist and remain Atheist now for 2 and 3, some 4 Generations.

They claim a God, Who called them Chosen People, would never do such a thing. But we have Biblical Proof that God has allowed it for thousands of years. And of course now, I remind them since Christ, they are no longer the Chosen People. And that sets them off even more.

The reason American Jews vote Democrap, they choose and want to be viewed as VICTIMS!

But in everything we read, it's been the Jews fault that got them into their mess going all the way back to when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery. Which led to Egypt and Slavery as a Nation themselves.

I don't feel a bit sorry for them!

You REAP what you SOW!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It's as if the Jews forgot about Egypt, Babylon, Romans of 70 A.D., the Muslim wars, because what Hitler did in modern times is really not much different. But as a member of a Sephardim Yiddish Family, I am amazed at how many of the Sephardim, Mizrahi, Ashkenazic, and Ethiopian Jews, who AFTER the Holocaust, cut themselves and future family member still to this very day from Following Yahweh. They went 100% Atheist and remain Atheist now for 2 and 3, some 4 Generations.

They claim a God, Who called them Chosen People, would never do such a thing. But we have Biblical Proof that God has allowed it for thousands of years. And of course now, I remind them since Christ, they are no longer the Chosen People. And that sets them off even more.

The reason American Jews vote Democrap, they choose and want to be viewed as VICTIMS!

But in everything we read, it's been the Jews fault that got them into their mess going all the way back to when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery. Which led to Egypt and Slavery as a Nation themselves.

I don't feel a bit sorry for them!

You REAP what you SOW!

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

I 100% feel sorry for them, as the Lord is using them as an example of what sin is; what it looks like.

They will be rewarded for being used as they have been and still are. We need to love them dearly. Dearly, I say!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

I 100% feel sorry for them, as the Lord is using them as an example of what sin is; what it looks like.

They will be rewarded for being used as they have been and still are. We need to love them dearly. Dearly, I say!

I can agree to what you posted

 

[wattie]

What would YOU say to people who say they do not believe in God because bad things happen to good people. And what would you say to someone who experienced horrible hardship, and as a result lost their faith.

For example, Elie Wiesel was born in 1928 in Sighet Transylvania in Romania. He deeply believed in Judaism ✡️. When he was 15 Nazis invaded and ended up taking him to the worst concentration camp, Auschwitz. He and his father were forced to walk to Buna after three weeks in Auschwitz. He ended up losing his faith. And in total he spent 13 months in concentration camps. We can only imagine the horrible things that happened there and the horrible things he had to endure.

He wrote a book called “Night” and it was about his experiences. He won a Nobel peace prize. And as I said, because of the evil that he was forced to go through, because of everything that happened he lost his faith.

His poem “Never shall I ever” https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/never-shall-i-forget-by-elie-wiesel/

The problem of evil and suffering cant be answered with social justice or human type of love.

God has the eternal perspective, so sees what comes out of suffering on all levels.

He suffered the most severe death on the cross and so can be with us in our pain.

Because He rose again, He shows the future hope of all believers who are suffering.

Excruciating pain while alive, compared to eternity in heaven. That's the perspective God has.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I can agree to what you posted

Whew. I'm glad, because I really value and respect you!

HB, I encourage you to consider this concept the next time that you read through the entire Bible. It will . . . BLOW . . . YOUR . . . MIND! This concept shows the reality of the Mysterious Plan of God that Pual briefly mentioned in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3. But, he never unpacks it fully, for we are required to Ask, Seek, and Knock!

If you haven't done so already, I encourage you to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological format. It will read like any other novel, or historical accounting of events. In this case, it is the story of humanity as it unfolds from Day 1 all the way through as the events took place; as the writings occurred. Truly, this is the most incredible and fascinating story of ALL TIME!

Microsoft Word - Plan4.docx (blueletterbible.org)

Start today!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Whew. I'm glad, because I really value and respect you!

HB, I encourage you to consider this concept the next time that you read through the entire Bible. It will . . . BLOW . . . YOUR . . . MIND! This concept shows the reality of the Mysterious Plan of God that Pual briefly mentioned in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3. But, he never unpacks it fully, for we are required to Ask, Seek, and Knock!

If you haven't done so already, I encourage you to read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological format. It will read like any other novel, or historical accounting of events. In this case, it is the story of humanity as it unfolds from Day 1 all the way through as the events took place; as the writings occurred. Truly, this is the most incredible and fascinating story of ALL TIME!

Microsoft Word - Plan4.docx (blueletterbible.org)

Start today!

God Bless You and I will try that!

P.S.
I Respect You and Value Your Insight and find reading Your posts to be very informative!

 

[Cyberm]

It's as if the Jews forgot about Egypt, Babylon, Romans of 70 A.D., the Muslim wars, because what Hitler did in modern times is really not much different. But as a member of a Sephardim Yiddish Family, I am amazed at how many of the Sephardim, Mizrahi, Ashkenazic, and Ethiopian Jews, who AFTER the Holocaust, cut themselves and future family member still to this very day from Following Yahweh. They went 100% Atheist and remain Atheist now for 2 and 3, some 4 Generations.

They claim a God, Who called them Chosen People, would never do such a thing. But we have Biblical Proof that God has allowed it for thousands of years. And of course now, I remind them since Christ, they are no longer the Chosen People. And that sets them off even more.

The reason American Jews vote Democrap, they choose and want to be viewed as VICTIMS!

But in everything we read, it's been the Jews fault that got them into their mess going all the way back to when Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery. Which led to Egypt and Slavery as a Nation themselves.

I don't feel a bit sorry for them!

You REAP what you SOW!

You do reap what you sow. But what I want to know, is what in Gods name did the Jews sow to reap something as horrible as the holocaust.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

You do reap what you sow. But what I want to know, is what in Gods name did the Jews sow to reap something as horrible as the holocaust.

Rejected Christ as their Messiah!
Continue to deny Christ!

Before Pilate, the Jews screamed, Crucify Christ, He is not our King nor Messiah, let His Blood be upon us and generations to come.
It has been upon them ever since.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

God Bless You and I will try that!

P.S.
I Respect You and Value Your Insight and find reading Your posts to be very informative!

Well, thank you. You have no idea of how much I appreciate these words of tremendous encouragement. I want you to know that I do not believe that I am 100% accurate in my Biblical knowledge (proven by how I now and then have to adjust my written commentary to match and meet what I come to understand as "greater truth." I am a mere human being. That said, it is my sole, number one priority in this life to make sure that I eventually "get things right." So, always look at what I write with critical eyes and ears, and if you ever feel that I am wrong, I would LOVE to work through our combined thoughts and if one of us becomes the better for it, well doggon . . . that's why I'm here.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Well, thank you. You have no idea of how much I appreciate these words of tremendous encouragement. I want you to know that I do not believe that I am 100% accurate in my Biblical knowledge (proven by how I now and then have to adjust my written commentary to match and meet what I come to understand as "greater truth." I am a mere human being. That said, it is my sole, number one priority in this life to make sure that I eventually "get things right." So, always look at what I write with critical eyes and ears, and if you ever feel that I am wrong, I would LOVE to work through our combined thoughts and if one of us becomes the better for it, well doggon . . . that's why I'm here.

None of us are to our full potential in God's Knowledge of His Holy Word. But what i believe, You believe, what other men/women of God believe, can give us a much clearer perspective of a multitude of God's Knowledge.

It's like I can say 2+2=4, You say 3+1=4, another person says 5-1=4.

We are All Correct, and shows us not one single person has all of the answers, but a multitude of us have the correct answer just in different personal versions.

 

[Cyberm]

Rejected Christ as their Messiah!
Continue to deny Christ!

Before Pilate, the Jews screamed, Crucify Christ, He is not our King nor Messiah, let His Blood be upon us and generations to come.
It has been upon them ever since.

So because the Jewish ancestors rejected Christ, their decedents deserved the holocaust? I’m just trying to understand.

 

[posthuman]

evil is not a 'problem'
it is readily explained: see the heart of any man or woman; look at your own.
evil exists because mankind has free will.

what is a problem is 'goodness' -- it cannot be explained by any natural mechanism.
in any hypothetical schema wherein there is no God, the existence of goodness defies logic.

the existence of evil is to be expected.
the existence of goodness is a proof of the existence of an omnibenevolent God.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

So because the Jewish ancestors rejected Christ, their decedents deserved the holocaust? I’m just trying to understand.

You are a Christian?
If so, it means You have accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior.

2,000 years ago, the Jews obeyed the Mosaic Law. Today, it is called Judaism, but it is still the Mosaic Law. So the Jews, are still rejecting Christ, like their Ancestors did. Today, the Jews are rejecting Christ because they choose to do so. So, it's no longer a matter of what their ancestors did, it is a matter what they choose to do. And they have chosen to reject Christ for themselves, Today.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

evil exists because mankind has free will

Did the Jews have freewill? Isaiah and Paul say no, they didn't. Below, Paul quotes Isaiah 29:10

KJV - "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered."

Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

 

[p_rehbein]

The reason he lost faith is because of his experiences. He experienced horrible things. Who knows, maybe years and years after he got freed he started to pounder on his past faith and reconsider. But there was a time where his Faith wavered and he stopped believing.

Try telling people this Story, and then tell them the Story of the Apostle Paul and all he suffered, and retained his faith.

No..........his faith grew STRONGER because of what he endured