The Problem With Grace

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,015
4,430
113
this is so far wrong it is difficult to know where to begin. God will save the very worse sinners, in fact there is no difference between the worse sinners and YOU or me or anybody else. The sins were in us ... just not committed yet. And the reason, the only reason, they had not been committed was because of God's grace. The very grace you rail against.

Take God's word for it, you are awful as to your natural person, There is no good thing dwelling in you that is in your flesh.
Amen,

It's the grace of God that helps us not to sin.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,420
447
83
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
You have anger, that is what I hear in your words above. righteous anger
Please, watch out for where that might take you, and do the same as you have seen done

Be angry, yet do not sin over it, please. Again you have righteous anger in you
God will not let people escape that, only appears as does, people, taking God and people for granted, Like Jeffery Dahmer. God does not support people taking away people's free will
See Sodom and Gomorrah. I see not to repay evil for evil that be me, I see not to put up with evil either.
God desires to not ever harm anyone, yet will, has over troubles people cause each other as in. God freed the Henrews from Egypt
God was/is righteous and gives us the people to have laws to stop law breakers that harm others in thier free will all have. Not, that that is going always well.
Hoping for you to not go down the road I see you going from your angry words, righteously said about rapists, pedophiles and others like that.
That is how evil works evil in us the people, that will not do what we have seen done to others and us as well. Evil gets evil as love gets love, true love of God that is in you, from God. Where tragedy has struck you to your core, and in thought God allows evil.
God wants us the people to stand up and say no to those breaking law and do that righteously, trusting God to do that through us. So sorry, you have gotten harmed from others
I am trusting God for a hedge around you to comfort you in the midst of a perverse world we are in.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,467
451
83
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Don't worry, sister. If you don't want to go to a kingdom that welcomes repentant really bad sinners, God is willing yot accommodate you elsewhere. Maybe there's a cooler red-flamed region of hell that welcomes unrepentant more good sinners and they can hang out together and discuss how superior thet are to those unrepentant really bad sinners in the blue flames.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
2,495
1,114
113
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
receiving, ridiculing & rejecting God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit is the 1 unpardonable sin. God would not be all loving, omniscient, omnipresent & omnipotent if He wasn't all loving. grace is unmerited favor, partly, by God not giving us what we think we deserve. God does NOT work on the "deserving" or "works" basis. we may receive God's grace at any time, in the time we least expect it. G.R.A.C.E.: God's Riches At Christ's Expense! the most sinful people, whoever they are, are loved by God. AND IF THEY REPENT, THEY ARE IN HEAVEN AT THEIR PASSING. complete perfect love doesn't want what it doesn't have! GOD DOES NOT ENDORSE SIN OR ANYTHING UNGODLY!!! somehow, you misunderstand the forgiveness of sin. catholics are noted for that. blessings to you & may you understand this quickly.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
5,630
113
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
I thought you knew the Bible ?

“such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.”

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you aren’t complaining about Gods grace but man’s distortion of it that gives us excuses for sin mail actions those people the Bible condemns harshly

“For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Gods grace teaches us to do good and not evil he also says that anyone who hurts children would be better off to have a heavy millstone tied around his neck and cast into the deepest sea than to face him on judgement day for it

I think you have heard some false teachings bout how grace allows for sin and wickedness and just declares everyone saved ….The bible makes clear we are going to be judged for our deeds and words

Gods grace teaches us good and doesn’t advocate and allow for and reward evil there won’t be serial killers and cannibals in eternity those kind of things are noted as sins of death and require justice what do you think a God who loves humans Will do to someone who takes pleasure in torturing mole sting and abusing destroying them that he loves ?

God is love and truthfully nothing evokes more wrath than someone harming a Loving fathers beloved children. You should go back and read the gospel and rest of the Bible a bit more if you have concluded these things

I think your complaint is more with this

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God forgives but he sees all even the intents and hidden things in our hearts and minds and has vowed to bring all things to light and judgement he’s noted the devils on earth in man’s form who go about doing evil and what will happen to those monsters and demons among man who hurt children and people prettying on the weak ect

Gods grace is for those who turn to the light and good of Christ not those who operate in the shadows and say things without meaning grace this and grace that doesn’t nullify the righteous judgements of God upon mankind regarding things like what your noting here there are sins of death requiring justice that will be fulfilled as well
 

Prodigal

Active member
May 1, 2024
117
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Gone
Let me get this out here. I've been a Christian for 13 years, since I was 17 years old. I was raised in the faith. I know my Bible. I had a good loving family. Nothing traumatic. Pretty decent life.

However, one consistent thing I have a problem with in my faith that I've never been able to get over is God's so-called "grace." I don't think people know the implications of it. The logic is that we're all sinners. Nothing is unforgiveable. The problem I have with this is that it means the most evil of monsters (I refuse to refer to them as human beings, they've forfeited that right) such as rapists, serial killers, and pedophiles have a shot at being in heaven.

And you know what? That is NOT a heaven I wanna be in! I see all these people praising Jeffrey Dahmer's so-called "conversion," and it is absolutely DISGUSTING!!!

I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
Manasseh
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
13,519
113
I do NOT wanna worship a God who endorses this!!! And don't gimme that "oh, we're all sinners!" NOT ALL SIN IS EQUAL, AND EVERY RATIONAL PERSON KNOWS THAT!!!
not sure why you think it's rational to believe that forgiving sin means endorsing sin.

Matthew 6:15​
if you do not forgive others their sins,
your Father will not forgive your sins.