The purpose of Christ

peacefulbeliever · May 23, 2015

Elin said:

BE YE TRANSFORMED - HOW? YOU renew your mind - TO WHAT - to the knowledge of God, the Father & Christ through the word of God - proving what is that good, and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Agreed that is a process . . . renewing the mind so that "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus." And are you saying that our obedience is because the indwelling holy Spirit MAKES us obey? The way I see it; it's me and Christ working together. I renew my mind to the word . . . I cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself to the knowledge of Christ . . . . then when I need it - the holy Spirit brings that word to my remembrance.

The way 1 Cor. 1:30 reads - God has given [made unto us] us wisdom, sanctification, righteousness and redemption. If God has given it to me - why is it a process? [hagiasmos 1) consecration, purification; 2) the effect of consecration, A) sanctification of heart and life from hagiazo - definition #2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God] - simply put - sanctification means set apart for God - so when I was born again, sealed with the holy Spirit, I was "set apart for God".

Elin · May 23, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

Is there any knowledge of God through his word apart from the Holy Spirit's illumination? No.

Unbelievers, without the Holy Spirit, get no saving knowledge of God, the Father & Christ from reading Scripture.

Again, that's done in obedience enabled by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Unbelievers, without the Holy Spirit, cannot prove that.

I am saying that he enables us to obey. . .there is no obedience without his enablement.

Yes, you obey by the enablement of the Holy Spirit, and that dual work of obedience transforms you more and more into the image of Christ.

But there is an understanding of that word which requires illumination by the Holy Spirit.
That Holy Spirit understanding is what transforms our minds, becoming part of our abiding disposition, and affecting all that we are and do.

You say it is you and Christ working together. . .is that not a process?

Well actually, "sanctification" means "set apart--from sin, and to God."

The "from sin" part is a process, not a one-time event.

If it were completely accomplished at our rebirth, we would have no sin to confess (1Jn 1:8-10).

peacefulbeliever · May 23, 2015

Elin said:

Like I said - if I am redeemed - if I have been given wisdom, if I have been made righteous, then I have also been set apart for God. I will not be perfected [matured] or complete until Christ's return so I will always need an advocate but that doesn't mean that I have not been set apart for God - I am in the world but I am not of the world

I sat around for years "waiting for God to CHANGE ME" . . . . Just give your heart to Jesus - He will do the rest . . . doesn't really work that way - Once I was born again of the Spirit - I was not automatically made aware of every nuance of scripture . . . I was not automatically transformed . . . I was not automatically changed on the outside, IOW what was created anew inside me did not manifest itself on the outside . . I wasted so much time waiting on God to change me like most say He does . . . . It's really just sad.

I do know that without Christ . . . I, I, I, I am nothing and it is Christ who strengthens me . . . . .

Thanks Elin.

MarcR · May 23, 2015

just-me said:

King David is the foreshadowing of King Jesus Christ Messiah. The order of Melchizedec is the prince of peace.
This is the order of Melchizedec
Melech = a royal king
Zedec = equity
Completeness of the name means the royal king offering equity

Each letter symbolizes a picture = a letter of the Hebrew pictorial alphabet:
מ-ל-כ-י-צ-ר-ק the royal king offering equity
מלכיצרק= Melchizedec

The giving of life by chaos and blood,
providing the way through the power to endure what was necessary,
and in turn giving mankind the hope of entering into understanding
by cutting away darkness with a sword.

7 letters – heavenly completeness
the royal king and priest of Salem i.e. greeting with happiness, shalom
peace – shalem = Jerusalem

Jerusalem=”founded by God”
“The fulfillment of what I promised through Jesus Christ”
י-ר-ו-ש-ל-י-ם
ירושלים
י the hand of receiving
ר giving of a divine force
ו by what is nailed
ש influx of the Holy Spirit
ל perfect government
ם the complete and final mighty
shalom (שלם) =peace, as in friendly greeting
shalem “ =peaceful

Jeru=giving to us Jesus Christ

First: was shalom (happy welcome or greeting)/shalem (meaning peace)
The mighty influx of the Holy Spirit motivating a perfect government

Then: “Jeru” = giving to us what was promised by what is nailed- Jesus Christ

Finally: “Jerusalem” = the fulfillment of what was promised through Jesus Christ

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee. Psalm 122:6

מַלְכִּי־צֶ֨דֶק֨ מֶ֣לֶךְ שָׁלֵ֔ם means My King is Righteous King of Reconciliation

oldthennew · May 23, 2015

precious, peacefulbeliever,

you obviously have a handle on the love and grace or our heavenly Father.

we won't go into things that might hurt otherer's feelings a this time....

prove-all · May 24, 2015

Elin said:

you should try a bing search, say Queen Victoria's from king david line

Queen Victoria:Heir to King David's Royal Throne
The Queen's Royal Descent from King David of Judah

just-me · May 24, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

This is a great witness for all to see in response to God's love for us that has never changed. His ways are not burdensome but blessed. It's a joy to see this understanding deep within a fellow believer in Christ. Your testimony delivers to us better understanding of "the purpose of Christ," and how He continues walking together with us because we desire to continue walking together with Him.

1 John 4:13-19
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Herein is our love made perfect, (the process) that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.

just-me · May 24, 2015

MarcR said:

2 Chronicles 29:24 reconcile = sin offering
וַיִּשְׁחָטוּם, הַכֹּהֲנִים, וַיְחַטְּאוּ אֶת-דָּמָם הַמִּזְבֵּחָה, לְכַפֵּר עַל-כָּל-יִשְׂרָאֵל: כִּי לְכָל-יִשְׂרָאֵל אָמַר הַמֶּלֶךְ, הָעוֹלָה וְהַחַטָּאת.
And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.

Daniel 9:24 reconcile = to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to make reconciliation for iniquity
שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעִים נֶחְתַּךְ עַל-עַמְּךָ וְעַל-עִיר קָדְשֶׁךָ, לְכַלֵּא הַפֶּשַׁע ולחתם (וּלְהָתֵם) חטאות (חַטָּאת) וּלְכַפֵּר עָו*ֹן, וּלְהָבִיא, צֶדֶק עֹלָמִים; וְלַחְתֹּם חָזוֹן וְנָבִיא, וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

ליישב = reconcile i.e settle

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17

Jeremiah 29.4-8
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the Lord for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.

We see how the call of God required an intertwining of both reconciliation ( ליישב ) and shalom ( שָׁלֵ֔ם ) Sl֔m peace.

Hepzibah · May 24, 2015

Throughout the old testament, we read that Christ's sacrifice was to make a reconciliation for the sins of the people. To be reconcilled there must have been a relationship beforehand. Unblievers are not in a relationship with God. They cannot be reconcilled. They need to come to Christ to be forgiven and begin the relationship. It is believers who need to be reconcilled. They have fallen from their first love and are called to repent.

The whole of the OT and Hebrews is about this. Believers who have fallen from their first love must repent of it and have Christ appear to them for the second time where He will baptise them with the Holy Spirit and through the impartation of His holiness, they will be reconcilled. Those who are waiting till some time in the future for the second coming of Christ are going to be aghast that they did not take heed and fill their lamps with oil

Elin · May 24, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

Elin said:

Like I said - if I am redeemed - if I have been given wisdom, if I have been made righteous, then I have also been set apart for God. I will not be perfected [matured] or complete until Christ's return so I will always need an advocate but that doesn't mean that I have not been set apart for God - I aminthe world but I am not of the world

I sat around for years "waiting for God to CHANGE ME" . . . . Just give your heart to Jesus - He will do the rest . . . doesn't really work that way - Once I was born again of the Spirit - I was not automatically made aware of every nuance of scripture . . . I was not automatically transformed . . . I was not automatically changed on the outside, IOW what was created anew inside me did not manifest itself on the outside . . I wasted so much time waiting on God to change me like most say He does . . . . It's really just sad.

I do know that without Christ . . . I, I, I, I am nothing and it is Christ who strengthens me . . . . .

Thanks Elin.

You're welcome. . .it seems we are in agreement.

Yes, the reborn are set apart by God for his special provision,
yes, without Christ we are nothing, and
yes, without the NT dual work of obedience, and not just "waiting for God to change me,"
we will not be transformed into the image of Christ.

Keep on keepin' on. . .

Elin · May 24, 2015

oldthennew said:

Good decision. . .

Elin · May 24, 2015

prove-all said:

Based on what genealogical records?

Elin · May 24, 2015

Hepzibah said:

Yep. . .a relationship broken in the garden by the first Adam, and restored by the second Adam.

The words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers state otherwise
(Eph 2:11-16).

The gospel according to Hepzibah. . .

just-me · May 24, 2015

John 10:10, "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."
Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Obviously fulfilling is not destroying the supposed destructive entity of the law as false doctrine endorses.

John 20:21, "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you."

Pumicestone · May 24, 2015

Elin said:

Indeed, Elin - and I thank you.
I had never heard of this lot. ("Only in America ???")

Googling the "Movement", I found this site the most entertaining
https://www.raptureready.com/rap40f.html

just-me · May 24, 2015

Pumicestone said:

There are many factions to the movement. That's why I don't affiliate with it. There might be some good things in it for I have been accused of belonging to them by many on this site even though I have no Idea what they really endorse. If what the site says is true, I'm happy that I have taken the stance to believe the Bible instead. There are extremes one both sides of the fence. I call them ditches on the narrow path.

"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
Matthew 15:14

Down south we call some that do that "showing their hind end." LOL

Pumicestone · May 24, 2015

prove-all said:

I must have missed something. There is no unbroken line in either of those sites.

for example
48. K. Josiah (B.C. b. 649, d. 610), Hamutah.
49. K. Zedekiah (B.C. 578-599).
[KINGS OF IRELAND.]
50. K. Heremon (fl. B.C. 580), Tea Tephi.
51. K. Irial Faidh (reigned 10 years).

Is someone really claiming that the Hebrew Zedekiah sired King Heremon of IRELAND (if he ever really existed) ?

But even if this "genealogy" were genuine ....... so what ???

Elin · May 24, 2015

just-me said:

More straw men. . .

Fulfilling is accomplishing, completing, finishing.

As when a contract is fulfilled, it is completed, finished--no longer operative.

Fulfilling has nothing to do with your straw man "destruction,"
and everything to do with "finisihed--no longer operative."

just-me · May 24, 2015

The purpose of Christ was to reveal the "mystery" of the Gospel to the Jew first. Later Paul revealed the same truth to the Gentiles. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

There is a falsehood that is propagated today using this scripture. The falsehood is that this is the instance where the mystery was received that Paul was to deliver to the Gentiles. This scripture clearly doesn't relate to the mystery, for what Paul heard (if he is speaking of himself, [big if]) was unlawful to utter.

2 Corinthians 12:2-4
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In research, this letter to the Corinthians was written about nineteen years after Paul's conversion. That means that this scripture is falsely used trying to prove a false premise. That falsehood is that Paul's witness was minus the revelation of the mystery five years before it was revealed to him.

Paul's conversion was in 37 AD, and this above scripture was in a letter written in 56 AD. 56 minus 14 (verse 2) = 42 AD, being 5 years after Paul's conversion.

As the disciples of Jesus, Paul was also a Jew, him being of the tribe of Benjamin. Jesus revealed the mystery of the Gospel to His 12 disciples in relation to the parable of the sower and the seed. This was very close to the years 29 to 32 AD or possibly a year earlier. It was at least four years before Paul's conversion that the mystery of the Gospel was revealed. In either case, Jesus is the One who revealed the mystery of the Gospel.

The Holy Spirit was also given to reveal the mystery through the gift of divers languages during Pentecost. This was at the latest in 33 AD, 3 to 4 years before Paul's conversion.

Elin · May 24, 2015

Pumicestone said:

I don't know that much about them either. . .just the nonsense their unbelief tries to pass off as the gospel of Christ.

The purpose of Christ

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