The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

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Mar 28, 2016
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Yes
Our experience is 100% authenticated by Gods word.
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!00% of what a unknow tongue that cause men to fall backward??

Have you checked it and compared it to the law of the doctrine of tongues Isaiah 28. (the spiritual understand to the same spiritual unseen understanding (faith to faith) Or do you have another foundation for the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22. It confirm some foundation.

Where do you find that law referred to below?

Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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But see right here, you just admitted that YOU had to add this interpretation to it when you said "We know they must have said much more than this", then you go on to assume, assert, and insert all of this-

"I propose that the same reason that these others mocking said these men are full of new wine is the same reason that people who see someone speak in tongues today say these men are crazy. They think they are babbling. From day one the saints who receive this gift have been persecuted as lunatic and so it will be until Jesus comes back. We are in good company. Keep praying in tongues and let the mockers mock."

You could very well be right on, but the fact of the matter is you have to add that, and God did not see fit to word it the way you are interpreting it.

I'm not trying to teach, correct, or "show you" at all here concerning actual tongues, but what I am trying to do is get you to acknowledge that what you said is not what the text says, that you have to assume the bit that you wrote. Again this may be a sound deduction and right on truth here, but even so you have to add what you're saying.
What the mockers said is important. That was my point. It is there for a reason. I agree that we have to figure out what the reason would be using common sense. I have heard some in the Charismatic churches say that they were stumbling around like a drunk because they were intoxicated by the Spirit. There is nothing in the text to suggest that. And since that is the excess that alcohol causes it is actually the opposite of what the Spirit causes so I do not think that is what they saw. We can only go by the text. The text says nothing about how they stood or how they looked in their physical appearance or actions. Why did they think they were drunk? Because they were speaking in tongues. If the mockers knew that they were speaking languages that they had never learn they would not think they were drunk. Drunkeness is not associated with mental brilliance or sudden genius. If the mockers knew these men spoke Aramaic as their native language and were suddenly able to speak languages they had never learned they would not associate it with drunkeness. Would you? Common sense tells us that in that culture or in ours this would not be associated with drunkeness. However if the mockers thought they were giving themselves over to emotionalism and uttering sounds that the mockers did not know were languages of other nations they would think they were drunk. That makes sense and does not add anything to the text. It was the speaking in tongues that made them think they were full on new wine. Can you come up with any other reason they would think they were drunk for speaking in tongues other than they did not know they were speaking in other languages. This is of course the mindset of the "OTHERS who mocked and said these men are full of new wine" not the mindset of those who knew they were speaking in their own language. You might say that I cannot prove that is why they mocked them (because they did not understand them) but I think it is the best hermeneutic using common sense. You can either present another reason that makes better sense, or you can concede that my reason is the right one, or you can say "it does not matter and that we are not supposed to understand anything at all from the comment "others mocking said these men are full of new wine" because it is vague. However I reject the idea that this comment and detail has no necessary significant purpose and that we can do with it it and still understand the passage as we were meant to understand it. I think that this detail adds to our understanding and is very important.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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But see right here, you just admitted that YOU had to add this interpretation to it when you said "We know they must have said much more than this", then you go on to assume, assert, and insert all of this-

"I propose that the same reason that these others mocking said these men are full of new wine is the same reason that people who see someone speak in tongues today say these men are crazy. They think they are babbling. From day one the saints who receive this gift have been persecuted as lunatic and so it will be until Jesus comes back. We are in good company. Keep praying in tongues and let the mockers mock."

You could very well be right on, but the fact of the matter is you have to add that, and God did not see fit to word it the way you are interpreting it.

I'm not trying to teach, correct, or "show you" at all here concerning actual tongues, but what I am trying to do is get you to acknowledge that what you said is not what the text says, that you have to assume the bit that you wrote. Again this may be a sound deduction and right on truth here, but even so you have to add what you're saying.
Good point.
 

Funkus

Active member
May 20, 2020
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bottom line - if speaking in tongues is considered essential for faith then it demonstrates a lack of faith
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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I think that people take the word of God too lightly, forgetting that death and life are in the power of the tongue. Most people, including Christians, fail to learn to operate in much of any kind of power. That's a sad thing considering how much Jesus demonstrated how the power works, and was constantly trying to get his disciples to step up and use that power themselves. Then he died on the cross, rose again, departed to the father, and poured out the Holy Ghost so WE can have that same Spirit and Power living in us. And what do people do with that?? They DENY the POWER as it is written:

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. - 2 Timothy 3:5 KJV​

And I am SO glad that this particular posting is not in reply to any individual on this thread, because this is a message to ALL. STOP DENYING THE POWER! Learn what it is, how to use it, and how to use it in LOVE.

The bible says "the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." - 1 Corinthians 4:20 KJV

And some on here have nothing but words... Others have power (because they have the Holy Ghost) but don't realize what they have.

How can people claim to have the Spirit of God but walk around with less power than the disciples were using before the Holy Ghost was even poured out??? What's wrong with this picture?? Is there no faith?

And I guess this part is for those who have actually experienced a little of the power of God... Weren't there some clues as to how and why the power of God showed up when he moved? For example, weren't people praying, reading, fasting and/or praising when God showed up? Do you think God is a respecter of persons and wouldn't show up if you did those things earnestly, too, or now, or again?

I'm stopping there for now (for a few reasons), but for those who claim to have God, you need to have more than words to have the kingdom of God.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
What you are preaching here is what bill Johnson of bethel is well known for saying. And I meant that cordially because my church also follow that, she sings a lot of their songs.

My view is that such teachings do not distinguish between Israel and the body of Christ, between the gospel of the kingdom and gospel of grace.

They assumed that Jesus was also reaching out to the gentiles during his first coming. Hence when he displayed signs and wonders then, we should also be displaying them now.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What the mockers said is important. That was my point. It is there for a reason. I agree that we have to figure out what the reason would be using common sense. I have heard some in the Charismatic churches say that they were stumbling around like a drunk because they were intoxicated by the Spirit. There is nothing in the text to suggest that. And since that is the excess that alcohol causes it is actually the opposite of what the Spirit causes so I do not think that is what they saw. We can only go by the text. The text says nothing about how they stood or how they looked in their physical appearance or actions. Why did they think they were drunk? Because they were speaking in tongues. If the mockers knew that they were speaking languages that they had never learn they would not think they were drunk. Drunkeness is not associated with mental brilliance or sudden genius. If the mockers knew these men spoke Aramaic as their native language and were suddenly able to speak languages they had never learned they would not associate it with drunkeness. Would you? Common sense tells us that in that culture or in ours this would not be associated with drunkeness. However if the mockers thought they were giving themselves over to emotionalism and uttering sounds that the mockers did not know were languages of other nations they would think they were drunk. That makes sense and does not add anything to the text. It was the speaking in tongues that made them think they were full on new wine. Can you come up with any other reason they would think they were drunk for speaking in tongues other than they did not know they were speaking in other languages. This is of course the mindset of the "OTHERS who mocked and said these men are full of new wine" not the mindset of those who knew they were speaking in their own language. You might say that I cannot prove that is why they mocked them (because they did not understand them) but I think it is the best hermeneutic using common sense. You can either present another reason that makes better sense, or you can concede that my reason is the right one, or you can say "it does not matter and that we are not supposed to understand anything at all from the comment "others mocking said these men are full of new wine" because it is vague. However I reject the idea that this comment and detail has no necessary significant purpose and that we can do with it it and still understand the passage as we were meant to understand it. I think that this detail adds to our understanding and is very important.
Those men did not believe prophecy in their own language yet alone languages foreign to Hebrew.

They are like those in Hebrew 6. Not mixing what they saw and heard with faith . The gospel, therefore tasting of the good things to come and in the end fall backward to show they are under the judgment of prophecy God's tongue

The law of Tongues (Isiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14: 21-22. It says yet for all that prophecy they still refuse to believe prophecy God's word) without adding the oral traditions of fallen mankind, seeking after to be filled with wonderment, amazement. And not prophecy and in the end of the matter calling it self edification . (Look I did it)

The law of the "hearing of faith" .

In the
law it is written, With men of other tongues (other than Hebrew) and other lips (other than Hebrew) will I speak (Not make a senseless noise) unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corithain 14 21-22

It simply does not get any clearer. Prophecy God's tongue spoken in all the tongues of the nations. Had no bearing on their thinking. So God mocked those who mock prophecy. The hearing of faith.

John 10:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Therefore making Jesus into a circus seal. Showing us what they have. Wonderments, amazement, marveling based on their own actions and not the hearing of faith. Like who needs faith beforehand. Just make a noise fall backward then believe.

That is the mentality of those who seek after signs and wonderers and not prophecy alone.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What you are preaching here is what bill Johnson of bethel is well known for saying. And I meant that cordially because my church also follow that, she sings a lot of their songs.

My view is that such teachings do not distinguish between Israel and the body of Christ, between the gospel of the kingdom and gospel of grace.

They assumed that Jesus was also reaching out to the gentiles during his first coming. Hence when he displayed signs and wonders then, we should also be displaying them now.

How would you display a wonder? Is it not something one must experience? Where does wondering or marveling lead?

Our focus is on how can we hear the understanding of God not seen ?

John 3: 7-8 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Born of the Spirit once. Not filling a upon filing, again and again, exposing Christ to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.

There Jesus is teaching us how to "walk by faith" the unseen eternal. Not how to hear noises and seek the private interpretation of mankind. Nicodemus still caught up in wonderments asked?

John 3: 9- 12 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?Verily, verily,
I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, (and not marvel after.) and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (the holy spirit ) If I have told you earthly things, (things seen the temporal) and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

No mixing of faith, no gospel.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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Those men did not believe prophecy in their own language yet alone languages foreign to Hebrew.
The Others that Mocked? We do not know what they believed. We only know they thought they were drunk.

They are like those in Hebrew 6. Not mixing what they saw and heard with faith . The gospel, therefore tasting of the good things to come and in the end fall backward to show they are under the judgment of prophecy God's tongue
It is impossible for anyone to know what you just said.

The law of Tongues (Isiah 28) revisited in 1 Corinthians 14: 21-22. It says yet for all that prophecy they still refuse to believe prophecy God's word) without adding the oral traditions of fallen mankind, seeking after to be filled with wonderment, amazement. And not prophecy and in the end of the matter calling it self edification . (Look I did it)
No clue what any of that means. It is disturbing that you think anyone would

The law of the "hearing of faith" .

In the
law it is written, With men of other tongues (other than Hebrew) and other lips (other than Hebrew) will I speak (Not make a senseless noise) unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corithain 14 21-22

It simply does not get any clearer. Prophecy God's tongue spoken in all the tongues of the nations. Had no bearing on their thinking. So God mocked those who mock prophecy. The hearing of faith.
Again, no idea what you just said.


John 10:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Therefore making Jesus into a circus seal. Showing us what they have. Wonderments, amazement, marveling based on their own actions and not the hearing of faith. Like who needs faith beforehand. Just make a noise fall backward then believe.
These sentences are not coherent. No one can understand them.

That is the mentality of those who seek after signs and wonderers and not prophecy alone.
Seek after prophecy alone? what is that?

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
I can only guess that you might be trying to say that you believe that the bible teaches not to seek after signs and wonders and that people who speak in tongues do that?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I can only guess that you might be trying to say that you believe that the bible teaches not to seek after signs and wonders and that people who speak in tongues do that?
Exactly. One provides understanding .The other wondering, wandering around in the dessert for forty years

We know exactly what they did not beleive. "Prophecy" They mocked prophecy the Spirit of judgement .
 
Mar 21, 2009
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How would you display a wonder? Is it not something one must experience? Where does wondering or marveling lead?
What is displaying a wonder?
Don't understand what it is, nor where it leads.

Our focus is on how can we hear the understanding of God not seen ?
How we can we hear the understanding? You mean like how can we correctly interpret scriptures and know what God intended for us to understand? Or do you mean how can we be lead by the Spirit of God?


Born of the Spirit once. Not filling a upon filing, again and again, exposing Christ to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.



Are you aware of these scriptures? Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Are you accusing them of "exposing Christ to public shame" for asking to be filled with the Holy Ghost again after the day of Pentecost and receiving the answer to their prayers? Don't say anything about wonderments and signs just answer this question please. Did they ask for and receive the filling of the Holy Spirit even though they had already received the filling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

There Jesus is teaching us how to "walk by faith" the unseen eternal. Not how to hear noises and seek the private interpretation of mankind. Nicodemus still caught up in wonderments asked?
No mixing of faith, no gospel.
No idea what you are asking.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What is displaying a wonder?
Don't understand what it is, nor where it leads.

How we can we hear the understanding? You mean like how can we correctly interpret scriptures and know what God intended for us to understand? Or do you mean how can we be lead by the Spirit of God?

Are you aware of these scriptures? Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Are you accusing them of "exposing Christ to public shame" for asking to be filled with the Holy Ghost again after the day of Pentecost and receiving the answer to their prayers? Don't say anything about wonderments and signs just answer this question please. Did they ask for and receive the filling of the Holy Spirit even though they had already received the filling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

No idea what you are asking.
Sorry its not by goal to cause others to wonder? We cannot improve on prophecy. We plant and water the seed, he causes growth if any.

You could say like the apostles in Luke 9 they were stuck marveling and wondering when Jesus purposely hid the gospel understanding. .Teaching them and us to walk by faith the unseen eternal that comes from hearing the scriptures' . Their wondering led them to look for another alfa Dog. Who is the greatest? .That guy has gone over the edge.

Teaching us wondering is not believing. Its wondering in amazement "overwhelming wonder"

Luke 9 :44-48 The people were still amazed about all the things Jesus did. He said to his followers, “Don’t forget what I will tell you now: The Son of Man will soon be handed over to the control of other men.” But the followers did not understand what he meant. The meaning was hidden from them so that they could not understand it. But they were afraid to ask Jesus about what he said. Jesus’ followers began to have an argument about which one of them was the greatest. Jesus knew what they were thinking, so he took a little child and stood the child beside him. Then he said to the followers, “Whoever accepts a little child like this in my name is accepting me. And anyone who accepts me is also accepting the one who sent me. The one among you who is the most humble—this is the one who is great.”



I am sharing the bread of my understanding. . In one way the Holy Spirit does the asking seeing its his approval we hope we are seeking after.

Wonders are inward fleshly experiences. Not something we display. But personally experience. Like those in Colossians 2:18 or experrnced by Jesus the apostle, prophet in Mathew 4.

Wondering marveling does not confer faith , prophecy does

After the third time in Mathew 4 the father gave words to Jesus. The lord having rebuked by the father ,the hearing prophecy devil fled. It as it is written (Prophecy) made signs and wonders disappear.

Colossians 2:18 Some people enjoy acting as if they are humble and love to worship angels.[They always talk about the visions they have seen. Don’t listen to them when they say you are wrong because you don’t do these things. It is so foolish for them to feel such pride, because it is all based on their own human ideas.

Mathew 4:8-10 Jesus answered, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’” Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and all the wonderful things in them. The devil said, “If you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things.” Jesus said to him, “Get away from me, Satan! The Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God. Serve only him!’” So the devil left him. Then some angels came to Jesus and helped him.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Are you aware of these scriptures? Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Are you accusing them of "exposing Christ to public shame" for asking to be filled with the Holy Ghost again after the day of Pentecost and receiving the answer to their prayers? Don't say anything about wonderments and signs just answer this question please. Did they ask for and receive the filling of the Holy Spirit even though they had already received the filling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?
How can we hear what the Holy Spirit says to the churches as his understanding?

Yes, they spoke the Word of prophecy with boldness the believers new tongue .No wonderments needed . Jesus said wonder not but rather believe.

I was referring "exposing Christ to public shame" That which comes from wondering, tasting .

When a person is born again they are filled with the Holy Spirit. We can marvel as we believe God when he is working in us to both will and perform the god pleasure of His will. Not the pleasure of wondering (temporally). That lead to murrurrring.( Philippians 2:13-13)

keep our wondering to the twinkling of the eye. Believing, the light we are given to hear .

Making senseless sounds and falling backward over and over as the spirit becomes depleted, is of another gospel, another kind of teacher.

Why would they asked to be filled over and over if they are already filled? Perhaps to add a little wonderment for self edification?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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nope not at all. I am saying you are not correct nor is your understanding Biblical. I am shocked you are not yet again casting curses on us as you did earlier.
The concept of casting curses is not in my ideology. It is a new age mystical thing that is more in line with modern Pentecostalism. Those who covet power view the world in such terms. Way too much Eastern mysticism to be considered Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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and that is your unbiblical opinion ok and ? There you with your biblical cursing again thinking i am being admonished by you LOL hahahah troll
This is how you show your seriousness in the Christian faith?

I'm not the one admonishing you. The word of God admonishes you. You do not answer to me as I have enough to answer for to God myself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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The concept of casting curses is not in my ideology. It is a new age mystical thing that is more in line with modern Pentecostalism. Those who covet power view the world in such terms. Way too much Eastern mysticism to be considered Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I did not you were a new sect of Pentecostal? why is your denominational name ? I know Cursocostel. Sad that you would suggest that the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with what Christian have asked God for.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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This is how you show your seriousness in the Christian faith?

I'm not the one admonishing you. The word of God admonishes you. You do not answer to me as I have enough to answer for to God myself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
right God bless you.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,016
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I did not you were a new sect of Pentecostal? why is your denominational name ? I know Cursocostel. Sad that you would suggest that the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with what Christian have asked God for.
As opposed to? Are you an old sect of apostate?

Take the word of God seriously.

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

For the cause of Christ
Roger