The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

[Absolutely]

Some of us (pretribbers) see the term "GT / 'the GREAT tribulation'" to be referring to the 2nd half only (3.5 years; per Matthew 24:21 and context), thus this (what you have written ^ ) would mean "@ mid-trib". Is that what you mean?

7 years of tribulation.
It is the great tribulation.
Most seem to prefer some separation.
Since the innumerable number came out of great tribulation and that near the start of the 7 year period, I am just gonna call it what the bible calls it.

 

[louis]

While the mystery of iniquity was already present and working in the first century (2 Thess 2:7), the previous verse (2 Thess 2:6) clearly shows that the individual who shows himself to be the people's love (god), was then not yet present.
It (the mystery of iniquity) had to develop over the centuries, to what we have today in order for the individual in question to arise.

The individual who sees himself as the peoples love/god in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, is the beast's mouth who speaks great things in Revelation 13:5, whom in Revelation 13:8 is worshiped/loved, by the whole faithless world along with the beast and the dragon (Revelation 13:4).

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I quoted a message a while back which seemed to indicate, if taken literally, that you were saying there was no gathering and no resurrection. That is what you appeared to be saying in that post.

Not sure how you can see my saying a gathering at the return of Christ of living people. Vs a ressurection of the dead and rapture of the living are not the same event, as to mean they will not happen. But if you say so..

There are a lot of things about which we could ask, "Why didn't God do it this way?" Some kids asks questions like that, asking questions about why Adam sinned or questions about why the Devil is allowed to do certain things. People ask why evil is allowed to exist. 'Why didn't God just do this....' is really evidence for one eschatology over another.

Or sometimes it is trying to find truth. When truth seeking you should always ask questions. I have found that you should never assume you know it all or have found all truth. I used to think this way (there is no way my leaders could be wrong, thus I can not be wrong) and I would arroganlty push my view on others. It is when God opened my eyes to what I was doing, that I was finaly able to find some real truth, and also find some of what I was taught was correct. But some was wrong.. And I started seeking truth.

Again, A good way to start is ask why.. or another way is to seek.

In other words. If this is true, what would I expect. Then take these expectations. And fit them up wiht the bible and see what happens. Even in education (I have an engineering technology degree) and as a technician in the miilitary, I was taught in the basic forms of troubelshooting or in any kind of engineering this is how we do things, failure to do so (what is the normal opperation, or what do I expect will happen if i do this) will lead to wrong assumptions, a failed or prolonged repair, or a danger of doing things which shoudl never have been done if I di dnot answer those questions.

I am not sure what you are talking about. I responded about God doing things the way He chooses. That does not make me look bad. It is a good comment in response to your question.

You asked a nonsensical question which you should have never even have thought of. Since I did not even insiunate what you were saying. It seems to be a habit of some people or groups. And it gets old

Again, I put more weight on didactic passages and interpret apocalyptic passages through them. If Revelation is a bit more allegorical than a strong literalist would like, it still makes more sense to me to rely on the words of Paul and Christ to interpret Revelation. That being said, I would not say the Beast is going to perfectly micromanage the whole planet. Some pockets may escape him. And, again, I wouldn't rule out the idea of God letting someone who had damned himself during the tribulation survive for a thousand years and have children who have a chance. It's not up to me. He might wipe them all out. He is God after all. Either way, the argument is not enough for me to abandon a straightforward interpretation of Paul's writings.

I will just go off Gods teaching

1. If he does not stop tribulation no flesh will survive
2. For the sake of the elect. He will cut the time short
3. Meaning he comes back to earth to SAVE the living believers because they ALL die. (He did not come back to save the lost)
4. Even if we believe SOME of the lost will be spared (I know ALL ISREAL repents either right before this or right after) it is not a good line of thinking God is going to srart off his 1000 year reign by BLESSING those who rejected him and took the mark of the beast or folowed Satan.

God did not promise THEM if they endured till the end they would be saved, He promised the believers. And he keeps his promises. He will start his 1000 year reign with these people.

If angels' involvement is mentioned in one passage but not another, the fact that angels are not mentioned in one passage does not mean that they are not involved. There are passages where in one gospel, a detail is mentioned, but in another it is not mentioned. The fact that the theives on the cross talking to Jesus are not mentioned in one gospel, but not in another is not evidence that Jesus was crucified twice. Words might be omitted in one version of a message of Jesus in one gospel, but those words relayed in another Gospel. That does not prove that Jesus made the speech twice.

Again gather vs ressurect or catch up. Different words, differing meanings.. And it does matter.

I try to take passages about Christ's return wholistically. If a detail is mentioned in one passage and not another, I do not see that as justification for seeing two separate events. It seems highly counter-intuitive, to say the least, to think that the parousia in II Thessalonians 2:1 and 2:8 occur at different times. One verse speaks of the parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto him, and another speaks of the man of sin being destroyed at the brightness of His

Again, Context is the issue.

You think they both are the same event, I think they both are two events with two purposes. And when taking the bible as a whole. I can not make them one event no matter how hard I try.

Paul uses the same word to refer to the 'parousia' here with no explanation that he is talking about two events. If you just read Paul, there is no reason to think he is referring to two events. None of his epistles indicate that there are two events in the word 'parousia.' In I Thessalonians 4, the raptures occurs at the parousia as well. We are waiting for Jesus to return and be present with us-- waiting for His presence again. To assert that this refers to two events if very wild speculation. If there is no scripture that shows these are two events, it is not reasonable to interpret the Bible that way. Do you see why I consider it unreasonable to postulate that there are separate 'parousia' in Paul's writings? Is there any reason to think Paul thought of it that way?

Your basing you faith on one word. I would rather take the whole council of God and come up with my interpretation.

Either way, You can not prove me wrong with what you just said, (you gave opinion) all you have done is show you have a different view.. Which has been my point all along.

I was raised pre-trib and have heard Bible interpretations through that lens for years. What I am asking for is justification for seeing them as two events. Do you see why I consider this to be unreasonable unless you have some evidence for it?

You keep asking this, Yet I keep giving it too you. And then wonder why I get upset everytime you do this.

Again, Whether you AGREE with my evidence is not the question or even the issue, the fact is, I have given it, and for you to continue to dsay I have not just further makes this whole conversation meaningless. Because you can not have a conversation with someone who keeps speaking in non truths about another person.

You being pretrib all your lifre (supposedly) does not prove anything

 

[Absolutely]

So, have you changed your stance and admit that there is a 'gathering' and/or 'rapture'? I see these as the same event, btw.



It says except the days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, not that if Jesus did not come back no flesh would survive. It's a fine point, but I thought I'd mention it.

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying since He could have just let them die and resurrected them, there was no reason to come back soon? God's plan is apparently for some to be alive and to be transformed at the rapture, so that should be good enough for us.



I haven't argued for the resurrection of angels, so you are going to have to give me more details for me to follow your line of reasoning here.


Of course, that does not mean it does not happen. In II Thessalonians 2:1, Paul write to a church about 'the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto Him', which should give us an idea of who is being gathered when Jesus comes. I Thessalonians 4 gives us more details about the trump, the voice of the archangel, clouds, etc. Doesn't it make sense to interpret these as one event than to invent separate comings of Jesus?


In this post, I do not see how you used any scriptures, above, to connect the dots. Where is the scripture that leads you to believe (presumably) that the dead are not rasied when Jesus gathered the elect? The issue is Paul speaking of the Lord's parousia as if it were an event to come. He uses the same word to refer to it in II Thes. 1:1 and 2:8 and I Thes. 4:15. So why shouldn't we see the rapture and the destruction of the man of sin as occurring at the one parousia of Christ? It's just simpler and it makes more sense. And it is reasonable for us to only interpret the 'parousia' as more than one return if there is some Biblical evidence for it.


What you are doing here is interpreting some passages through an interpretational grid you already hold to. You are filtering them through the lens of your eschatology. You aren't showing where you get the interpretational grid or lens. What scripture justifies NOT seeing these passages about the return of Christ as referring to the same event? That's what I have been talking about not seeing justification for.

How would you describe your own eschatology if not pre-trib? Weren't you saying there was no rapture or gathering a few posts ago? Are you pre-trib now? I am asking this honestly, because it looks to me like you changed your mind as to whether there would be a rapture or gathering between these posts. That's okay with me if you did. I just want to know what your stance is on the issue if we are discussing it.


And I am asking how you justify interpreting these passages as being about more than one return of Christ....if I understand you right. And it may be that I do not.


No. But they do talk about jesus coming to earth as king, they do speak of him returning to destroy the final beast of Daniel. And revelations shows us, this is exactly what happens. And matt 24 jesus himself references this time

All those things you just mentioned have nothing to do with our conversation. I gave you specific passages of scripture you could look to. All you just did is further show you are not listening to a thing I am saying. Why else would you mention things which have nothign to do with the passage I spoke of?

[/QUOTE]
The trick would be making two obvious and different " returns" into one.
The rapture is the groom coming for the bride.
You have to Start there.
THEN MAT 25 IS UNDERSTOOD.
Notice the groom does not go to the brides house (postribs require it)
Once gathered they DO NOT proceed BACK to the brides house ( as in postrib doctrine)
The setting is NOT apocolyptic.
Btw neither is lot,noah,the one taken in mat 24,or the baby Jesus.

Hello. Postrib rapture is totally unscriptural.

It is comical seeing you guys trying to invalidate the parable of the 10 virgins

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again post too long.part 2

Where is the strawman in my argument? You do see two events, right? If I a misrepresenting you somehow, let me know. I don't see that. I pushed you a bit on your stance here, but I didn't say anything rude in that quote. And I am talking about how to interpret 'basic Bible.' Sometimes our conversation feels a bit to me like that 'Niagra Falls' routine on Abbot and Costello. You should look that up on YouTube to see what I'm talking about.

The strawman was saying I was interpreting through my ibterpretational grid. The same argument could be used against you. thus it is a nonsensical strawman arguyment, and does not prove your point.

Our conversation seems to be this

Eg says this


You say EG is stupd and does not know what he is talking about and make strawman arguments which could go both ways, then you ask questions

Eg answers those questions

You walk around in circles. Then say EG did not answer the questions and demand he does

Eg answers them again, and kindly asks you to pease stop

Then it circles back again.

EG asked you to stop and talk about scripture. You appear to try

Then you resort back to the same tactics.

Here shortly, EG will discontinue, and place you with others who like you can not have a decent conversation with anyone who disagrees with you.

So do you hold to a mid-trib or pre-wrath type viewpoint? If that's the case, the point about seeing two events is still an issue.

I told you I am undecided. I am still learning. I may never come to one or the other.

And no. They are not an issue, I already answered those issues. A fact you contibue to deny and refuse to respond to.

And I explained how you can see.. All you have to do is open up. You may not agree, but why you can not see yet, I do not know what else I can say.

I see your point of view. I just do not agree with it.

This is kind of funny. You are quoting yourself and responding to your own words. I accidentally made a mistake with the quote and did not chop off the last bit of the post. It was followed by [/. quote] and it was in a different font from my words. But it's funny to see you really letting yourself have it.

And now once again you are proven to be a liar. If you look at post “ 222 you will see, This was in response to what you said

And I am asking how you justify interpreting these passages as being about more than one return of Christ....if I understand you right. And it may be that I do not.

In which I responded as follows

And I explained how you can see.. All you have to do is open up. You may not agree, but why you can not see yet, I do not know what else I can say.

I see your point of view. I just do not agree with it.

Which you asked in post 216. It is there for all to see.

Any more bright ideas of how to try to discredit me?

As far as the rock destroying the statue, again, if that passage doesn't mention the rapture, it doesn't mention thousand of other things about Christ either. It's not evidence against a rapture occuring at that time, and it is strange to me that you would see it as an argument for such an idea. Where are the horses in that passage?

What it does prove. Is jesus will come to put an end to the gentile rule. And set up his own kindom.

Kind of hard to do if everyone who believed in you is removed at the beginning, and all you have left is no one. Or unsaved people who somehow are blessed by being spared. And expecting them to start this new paradise on earth?

lol..

 

[Absolutely]

Yes those who do not receive the mark of the beast would be those who are here for the wrath of God period. It is them that die because they chose God instead and they will return with Yeshua to reign a thousand years. Rev. 20

Yes they die early on.
It says POWER was given the ac to overcome the saints.
He kills all the ones refusing the mark.
They are the 5 foolish of mat 25

 

[Absolutely]

Those "stars" represent the seed of Abraham:

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and number the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Galatians 3:28-29 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

The dragon who with his tail drew the third part of the stars from heaven and cast them to the earth were those seed of Abraham who fall away from sitting in heaven places in Christ Jesus doing His good works:

Ephesians 2:5-10 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), (6) and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: (7) that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: (8) for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (9) not of works, that no man should glory. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

They do not resist the devil through grace but fall back to the earth because of their double mindedness:

James 4:6-8 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore the scripture saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble. (7) Be subject therefore unto God; but resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (8) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye doubleminded.



1/3 of those with star glory that fall away from the truth:


Jesus as well as most of the disciples were martyred through the many antichrists but we do not label that the wrath of God but it certainly is tribulation of those saints as well as many saints from Christ's ascension:

1 John 2:18-19 Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. (19) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Acts 14:22 confirming the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.

John 16:1-3 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be caused to stumble. (2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the hour cometh, that whosoever killeth you shall think that he offereth service unto God. (3) And these things will they do, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Jesus was speaking directly to the disciples and by extension every Christian from that point on who are the seed of Abraham whether Jew or Greek(Gentile):

Galatians 3:26-29 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus. (27) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ. (28) There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye are Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

Matthew 24:9-10 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake. (10) And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 10:21-23 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. (22) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. (23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Why can't most Christians see whether Jew or Gentile we are all one body, thus one olive tree, thus one commonwealth of Israel so that the cities of Israel are in every nation:

Matthew 28:18-20 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: (20) teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

All Israel is much bigger than most think:

https://sumofthyword.com/2017/12/19/all-israel/

The 144k kinda put a wrinkle in that plan since they have zero gentile connection,and are firstfruits of some future harvest.
We see the harvest,or rapture, in rev 14....jewish harvest.

Btw the gt is Jacobs trouble/Israel's trouble.
The time of the gentiles ending marks the tome of God dealing with Israel.

 

[Absolutely]

Amen Bro! Pretribbers have to play word games to prove a pretrib rapture! Anyone who studies the prophets as one can clearly see the tribulation is for the saints and the wrath is a full year that "immediately" follows the tribulation just as it was in the days of Noah that I clearly proved here:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

It is comical seeing you guys stumble over our verses.

Oh,and still waiting for that one verse pointing to a post trib rapture.
I am a little disappointed in such a passionate belief of you guys with no verses. Hmmmmm

 

[Absolutely]

Not at all. Don't know where you get that from. The bride of Christ does meet him in the air. After the trib before the wrath of God.

Ok, post the verse pointing to this,and tell me why mat 25 does not destroy the post trib model

 

[Absolutely]

The Bible does not use terms like 'post trib' and 'pre trib.' It does show that the rapture occurs at the parousia. Would a verse showing the gathering occuring after the tribulation and the rapture occurring at the parousia satisfy your curiousity?

Lets see this verse

 

[Absolutely]

Yes indeed and ALL ripped out of context, for there is no such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture!

Matt 24v29-31 states: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

And many other verses!

I studied post trib.
That is your only verse.
But re read your only verse.
Angels do the gathering,not Jesus
And the gathering is from heaven,not earth.
It is not pointing to some erroneous post trib rapture.
Any others?

 

[Absolutely]

I posted the link so the burden of proof is on you to disprove each one of my contextual proofs! Here is the first one from my link that I want you to disprove:

First lets examine some scripture to determine who the “church saints” are:

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours:

From 1 Corinthians 1:2 we can conclude that all those sanctified in Christ Jesus are called saints and are the church of God:

Romans 10:12-13 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek(Gentile): for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: (13) for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Galatians 3:28-29 There can be neither Jew nor Greek(Gentile), there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

Colossians 3:11-12 where there cannot be Greek(Gentile) and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. (12) Put on therefore, as God’s elect, holy and beloved, a heart of compassion, kindness, lowliness, meekness, longsuffering;

From those 3 passages we can conclude that all distinction between the Jew and Greek(Gentile) is erased as believers for we are one body in Christ Jesus, are Abraham’s seed, and called the “elect” of God:

1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

1 Peter 2:9-10 But ye are an elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: (10) who in time past were no people, but now are the people of God: who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sake, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

So now that we have established that those saved in Christ are the people of God called the elect, lets see when the elect are resurrected/raptured(taken up):

Matthew 24:29-31 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (30) and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So “immediately after the tribulation” the “elect” who are “the church” who are “the saints” are gathered together with Christ in the clouds with the sound of the last trumpet

And since Jesus sends his angels to gather them in heaven,not earth,we MUST be seeing rev 19.

Interesting you highlight the wrong thing.
Why do you get zero red flags as i pick off your entire deal????

 

[Absolutely]

A Prophetic word unto you... I REBUKE YOU SATAN Get BEHIND ME... For did I not say if a man seems to be wise, let him become a fool, so that I could make him wise, saith YAHOSHUA, who is the CHRIST unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... 1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Where are your scriptures proving that what she is saying is WRONG, saith YAHOSHUA, for YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING TO ME.. IT is My FATHER'S WORDS that I FOLLOW saith YAHOSHUA< who is Christ, meaning the ANOINTED ONE, unto the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, who are YOU, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH. For no man has taught her, but I through My SPIRIT, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures.
2 Timothy 3:15-18 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ YAHOSHUA. All scripture is given by inspiration of the FATHER, and is PROFITABLE FOR DOCTRINE, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness:That the man of the FATHER may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Do you not UNDERSTAND that you have to CORRECT THEM THROUGH MY WORDS, NOT YOURS THOUGHTS. For your THOUGHTS are not MY THOUGHTS, have you not READ? Saith YAHOSHUA, who is Christ unto the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, and unto the JEWS, I AM, MESSIAH, fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... Isaiah 55:8-9 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our the FATHER, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

PROVE ME WRONG, through MY FATHER’S WORDS, OR GET BEHIND ME, saith YAHOSHUA, for you do not KNOW ME, or My FATHER who sent Me, unto the LOST SHEEP of the HOUSE of ISRAEL, for they have only been making you THINK that you do, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures... Jeremiah 4:20-22 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, and my curtains in a moment. How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?

For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge. Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do not ALLOW YOURSELF to AWAKEN in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA, WHEN, WHERE, OR HOW YOU GOT THERE, saith YAHOSHUA. For now you have been WARNED.



Shalom

What a narcissist.
Attacking those challenging your made up mess

 

[Absolutely]

How about just 'Be Ready'. That's the answer God spoke to Paul Crouch after a heated debate on the broadcast about pre, mid and post trib.

Yep. And he said it right after the " one taken,one left".
Rapture

 

[Absolutely]

The rapture/resurrection happen After the tribulation just as the year of wrath commences but the second coming does not occur until near the end of that year of wrath when Christ comes with His armies from heaven:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

There is zero pointing to a postrib rapture.
The rapture of rev 14 is game,set,match.
Postrib rapture soundly defeated
BIG TIME

 

[Absolutely]

So a brother in Christ would not want to live during the greatest harvest of saints the world has ever seen??? Peter disagrees wholeheartedly with you:

2 Peter 3:11-14 Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy living and godliness, (12) looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? (13) But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (14) Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for these things, give diligence that ye may be found in peace, without spot and blameless in his sight.

Revelation 21:7-8 He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Another postrib wrinkle.
The ac kills all refusing the mark.
No left behinders on earth to " endure to the end" roll eyes

 

[Absolutely]

More truth on the "hour of trial" can be found here:

Luke 21:34-36 But take heed to yourselves, lest haply your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day come on you suddenly as a snare: (35) for so shall it come upon all them that dwell on the face of all the earth. (36) But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Now your talkin!!!
Glad to see those pretrib verses

 

[Absolutely]

Christ’s resurrection after the cross was called “Christ the firstfruits” which took place around 30 AD. “Then they that are Christ’s, at his coming” is the only other resurrection/rapture of the saints and “then cometh the end”:


1 Corinthians 15:20-24 But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. (21) For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. (22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. (23) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming. (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.


John was in exile on the Isle of Patmos around 96 AD when he was caught up to the throne to write down what must come to pass hereafter:


Revelation 4:1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.


He recorded the next resurrection from 96 AD as the “first resurrection” to take place in the future:


Revelation 20:4-6 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


This “first resurrection” includes those who worshiped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand for they are blessed and holy.


We know the mark of the beast takes place during the the last half of the tribulation so this “first resurrection” must take place after the beast has established the mark:


Revelation 13:16-17 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead; (17) and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.


Now lets take a look at how Father gave us the sun and moon for signs to prove there is another year after the tribulation when God pours out His wrath:


Genesis 1:14-16 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: (15) and let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (16) And God made the two great lights; the greater light(sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light(moon) to rule the night: he made the stars also.


Revelation 6:16-17 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (17) for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?


Lets go back to Matthew 24 for our first sign:


Matthew 24:29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


So “immediately after the tribulation” the sun is darkened but this darkness of the sun is “before” the great and notable day of the Lord comes:


Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.


So we have the 7 years of tribulation before the sun is darkened and after this darkening of the sun the day of the Lord comes:


Isaiah 13:9 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy the sinners thereof out of it.


1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.


Both Isaiah and Paul are speaking of the exact same “day of the Lord” that is to come “after the tribulation”.


So lets see if we can find some more clues as to the timing of “the day of the Lord” :


Jeremiah 46:10 For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.


Isaiah 34:8 For Jehovah hath a day of vengeance, a year of recompense for the cause of Zion.


Isaiah 61:2 to proclaim the year of Jehovah’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;


Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.


Ok from all those passages above we can conclude “the day of the Lord” is also called the day of vengeance of our God and is a year long of recompense called the year of the Lord’s redeemed where he pours out His wrath which comes directly after the tribulation is over and the sun is darkened:


Revelation 6:12-17 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood; (13) and the stars of the heaven fell unto the earth, as a fig tree casteth her unripe figs when she is shaken of a great wind. (14) And the heaven was removed as a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (15) And the kings of the earth, and the princes, and the chief captains, and the rich, and the strong, and every bondman and freeman, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains; (16) and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: (17) for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?


The Father causes the sun to become darkened for the first time to announce the start of “the great day/year of their wrath and then twice during that year of wrath:


Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; that the third part of them should be darkened, and the day should not shine for the third part of it, and the night in like manner.


Revelation 9:2 And he opened the pit of the abyss; and there went up a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.


So this great and notable day after the tribulation is a year long of wrath also called the “last day” when Jesus said He would raise up those that believe on Him:


John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. (40) For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.


John 6:54 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

One at atime or 2 or 3.
Not some lifelong study of the ot

 

[Absolutely]

The individual who sees himself as the peoples love/god in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, is the beast's mouth who speaks great things in Revelation 13:5, whom in Revelation 13:8 is worshiped/loved, by the whole faithless world along with the beast and the dragon (Revelation 13:4).

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Yep,the insanity grips the entire planet.
The amils think it already happened.
The postribs think they are running from cave to cave cunningly escaping decapitation.

Oh dear

 

[Absolutely]

There is zero pointing to a postrib rapture.
The rapture of rev 14 is game,set,match.
Postrib rapture soundly defeated
BIG TIME

^^^^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^^^