The Redeemer come to or from Zion & do the Israelites have an everlasting convent or will it be taken away?

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
#41
Yes, and God also "inhabits the praises of His people". Does that mean He builds a house, somehow, within the sound of our music? No, of course not.

The Kingdom of Heaven is like the Animal and Plant kingdoms: it is a bastion of authority defined by certain standards.

The Kingdom Heaven IS an actual place. The Heaven of God is a place where there is no corruption. But, because it is spiritual, it transcends time and place. Like God. It is a certain standard of being alive.

The Kingdom of God is not a castle in the sky (like the Roman church made it out to be) it is a place obtained by righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. That's how we can walk in the Kingdom while being here on the earth. We are, like Jesus, the vessels by which God sends the Kingdom to wherever He wants. He is the One who said "the Kingdom of God is within you." This is not some metaphysical play on words. He was the Kingdom in their midst: a man whose father was the Living God and who, by grace, was able to bring the rule of His Father into the earth.

In the Kingdom of Heaven, Father and Son defines our standard. It is a way of life.
“Yes, and God also "inhabits the praises of His people". Does that mean He builds a house, somehow, within the sound of our music? No, of course not.”

brother this isn’t a fair comparison

The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

That isnt the same as this “

“But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s really not intellectually valid to make those two comparisons brother you can’t really dismiss one with the other because they aren’t the same one has consistent doctrine from genesis chapter 1 to revelation 21 throughout

….here’s all im trying to get across consider it don’t overthink and dismiss it until you note how consistent and continual

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”( 2 parts )
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”( 2 parts )
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

heaven

“The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; And his kingdom ruleth over all.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭103:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

earth

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

shortly after

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭

The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”( on earth )
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭

“And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:5‬ ‭

“And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:20‬ ‭

Do you notice how heaven is consistently spoken of as a place Gods habitation ? His kingdom ? Where God watches mankind on earth ? Sometimes comes down ?

“And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭11:5-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all im saying brother is there’s another place a better place beyond death after we die with Jesus and it’s in heaven . And it’s always been Gods habitation as you see the ot started but look what the nt states

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. ………. this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9, 11‬ ‭

Brother do you see how I’m saying there are two realms of creation ? That’s why this

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?…. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, ( while we lived on earth )

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35 ‭KJV‬‬

Our flesh will die but our spirit will return to the lord to the heavenly Jerusalem where Jesus is …..

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭


Brother “ the kingdom is within you “ doesn’t change the fact that the Bible clearly says heaven is the place where God exists where angels and redeemed people are even right now in Gods kingdom

the “the kingdom is within you “ was for the generation who wouldnt see it arrive physically but they would receive the lord in spirit at pentocost within them

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Note that heaven is another realm it’s not just you keep going up and find it heaven sometimes is opened for a moment the other realm becomes visable for a moment

“Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭


“But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:55‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Finally brother

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

clearly this present earth isnt our home or inheritance but all have died in faith not receiving the promises but seeing them far off knowing they are strangers on earth just pilgrims passing through on a journey home where to? To Zion

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Angels have a habitation also even if we say some other thing like “ you have the voice of an angel “ this doesn’t change the fact that angels have a habitation on heaven and it’s with the lord and it’s an actual place where God dwells

he only sent his spirit to be with us brother one day we’re going home and will see in full
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,749
1,573
113
#42
Brother “ the kingdom is within you “ doesn’t change the fact that the Bible clearly says heaven is the place where God exists where angels and redeemed people are even right now in Gods kingdom
I'm okay with thinking heaven is an actual place. Really.
BUT, then you wrote the above.

Do you see how church tradition has sullied our understanding of "God's Kingdom"?

His Kingdom is this: "..righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Many many Christians are fed the line: hold out until you die and then you'll get to the kingdom of God. When actually, the Kingdom may be entered now.

Do you see how this weakens the church... to teach that the "kingdom of God" is a place we may only enter when our bodies die?

The Romans started this lie because access to heaven was a commodity from which profit could be made.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
5,630
113
#43
I'm okay with thinking heaven is an actual place. Really.
BUT, then you wrote the above.

Do you see how church tradition has sullied our understanding of "God's Kingdom"?

His Kingdom is this: "..righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Many many Christians are fed the line: hold out until you die and then you'll get to the kingdom of God. When actually, the Kingdom may be entered now.

Do you see how this weakens the church... to teach that the "kingdom of God" is a place we may only enter when our bodies die?

The Romans started this lie because access to heaven was a commodity from which profit could be made.
“I'm okay with thinking heaven is an actual place. Really.
BUT, then you wrote the above.”


Do you see how this weakens the church... to teach that the "kingdom of God" is a place we may only enter when our bodies die?

No not at all We are all going to die everyone ever born is going to die the gospel gives us hope that it’s not the end , that we can hear and believe the gospel of Gods kingdom now and believe before we see it based on Jesus promise ( faith ) and so when we face tribulations we can endure knowing that this earth isn’t our home it’s only a strange place we’re walking through we don’t actually belong here

to say that Gods kingdom is already present in the heavens is just what the Bible says it doesn’t change the fact that God sent his spirit into the earth when Jesus took the throne at his right hand that’s what we’re taught see Jesus went up

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭

that’s not the end of the story though when he went there he did this

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So you have Jesus going up into heaven sitting at Gods right hand and he has now sent fortrh his spirit into believers hearts so he’s with us here and now by his spirit in us

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like your making it either or like a binary th ing either Jesus is in heaven or he’s “ within “ you

what I’m saying is the holy spirit is within us

jesus is in heaven and sent portions of his own spirit into the world into the hearts of believers he’s present in heaven


“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 10-12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i do t at all we am issie with talking about what it says there brother blessed are those who die on the lord

“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

look where they are

“And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t see an issue at all beother it seems to me you’re over examining and over thinking it . Our promised land is after this world it’s much better than what we know here

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i think what’s there is the right thing to talk about we all as mortals know we’re going to die one day non believers know this every adult himan gets it . God promised us something better something eterbal that we actually haven’t seen with our eyes because it’s heavenly if we choose him in this life rather than the world and evil and sin and death

It’s just part of the message of the gospel brother we should talk bout how he gave his spirit to dwell within us always d also about our promised land that we aren’t going to ever enter until after we pass away or are changed the last moment

We’re meant to live for what God promised and not what we see that next place new heavens and earth where God will dwell among us like in the gospel ……everyone has to die our flesh and blood isn’t meant to last forever what’s inside is

I think just my opinion it’s fine to just talk about it as is the Holy Spirit in us should be our king leading us ruling our “ inner kingdom “ that’s what that’s all about but it doesn’t change that God is actually in the realm of heaven and many are there with him who repented and believed and many will also be raised up at the end and judged ……

im simply saying brother it’s not a binary thing the kingdom is within us because he’s within us now but the kingdom of God is presently in full swing in heaven that’s what the Bible is always talking about with “ Zion “ the ot Mount was a pattern of what’s in the heavenly or spiritual realms of creation

it’s alright though brother if we don’t totally agree on the matter I always enjoy discussing with you anytime and appreciate the fellowship and wisdom