The remnant

[ForestGreenCook]

Wow, I haven't heard that before nor have I found Scripture to support it. But the two verses that I just posted should also apply in terms of what a True Jew is . . . a person whose unregenerated Heart has been Regenerated by the Circumcision of Christ.

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28) Jacob is representative of God's elect (Rom 9:11).

Most people do not see the distinction between the nation of Israel and Jacob/Israel.

I look at the house of Jacob as all of Israel, 12 tribes, for all 12 tribes came from his sons.

A remnant means that they will be few in number at the time God brings the Hebrews back to Israel.

A few in number compared to how big they were before that time.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

The disciples did not ask if Jesus would restore the kingdom to a remnant but to Israel as a whole nation.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

God will bring the whole house of Israel back to their land and leave none of the Hebrews left in the nations and they shall know the Lord their God from that time forward and He will never hide His face from them anymore which they will always be in the truth from that time forward.

Which the New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East and it will pave the way for all Hebrews to go back to Israel for the Gentile nations will cause it to happen.

When the Bible says Jacob it means all of Israel, 12 tribes, not only the elect Hebrews.

The Bible says Israel is blinded in part right now but all Israel shall be saved because when God brings them back to their land He will turn them to the truth so they will all become elect.

Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.

Eze 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Eze 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Eze 37:18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

God shall cause all the Hebrews to become elect when He brings them back to their land and turns them to the truth.

I look at Jacob as all 12 tribes regardless if they are in the truth or not and a remnant that they are few in number that includes all of the Hebrews whether in the truth or not for God will bring them to the truth so they will elect for all Israel shall be saved.

Respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation of these scriptures representing the whole nation of Israel, in order to harmonize with other scriptures, these scriptures are referencing Jacob as Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect (Rom 9) Verse 6-8, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, (Jacob/Israel) which are of Israel. (nation).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This term has a double application:

1. All believing Jews who are within the Church until the Second Coming of Christ.

2. Believing Jews from all of the twelve tribes after the Second Coming of Christ.

Paul refers to both these groups in Romans 9 and 11.

WITHIN THE CHURCH
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (Rom 9:27). See the context.

AFTER THE SECOND COMING
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom 11:25,26)

"ALL ISRAEL" = BELIEVERS IN EVERY TRIBE OF ISRAEL (see Rev 7 as a microcosm).

Out of all Israelites and Jews, there is only a believing "remnant". So not every Jew will be saved.

I was blinded to the truth until the age of 62. I have been born again so far back in my youth that I can't remember it. This is the condition of almost all of God's elect of whom Jacob represents, (Rom 9:11), except for the remnant of whom the Holy Spirit, within them, has revealed the knowledge of God's righteousness in his Son's accomplishments on the cross.

Those who are blinded are in the scriptures considered to be "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Jacob whom God changed his name to be called Israel-Gen 32:28). Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Jacob/Israel (Matt 10:6).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I enjoyed reading your entire post. Thank you. As for not speaking, this is in reference to my talking about or saying things that I really don't need to say. I always believe that the things I am saying are 100% accurate and proper, but the world is in a place where correction and informing aren't accepted. And, perhaps they never have been. So, to remain quite goes against who I have always been . . . and frankly, it was difficult to do today while at work, but at least I can hold my head high today knowing that I didn't engage in any fruitless conversation, or at least not much.

You issued some very nice compliments above. I appreciate that very much. Thank you kindly, sir.

sounds good brother , “ we’re all a bit different have differences and strengths weaknesses ect “ to summarize so I totally understand what your saying and really respect it God bless

 

[Evmur]

Just collecting information. What is your understanding of "the remnant of Israel"?

You have to go back to first usage, a good principle in understanding the bible.

The first mench of the remnant was the matter of Elijah versus the apostacy of Israel during the evil reign of Ahab and Jezebel. They were the 7, 000 who did not bend the knee to baal or kiss him.

Their purpose was to keep the testimony alive and to be instrumental in turning the whole nation back to the worship of Jahweh God.

They are tokens that God has not turned His back on Israel and that one day they will return to Him.

 

[Evmur]

This term has a double application:

1. All believing Jews who are within the Church until the Second Coming of Christ.

2. Believing Jews from all of the twelve tribes after the Second Coming of Christ.

Paul refers to both these groups in Romans 9 and 11.

WITHIN THE CHURCH
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (Rom 9:27). See the context.

AFTER THE SECOND COMING
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (Rom 11:25,26)

"ALL ISRAEL" = BELIEVERS IN EVERY TRIBE OF ISRAEL (see Rev 7 as a microcosm).

Out of all Israelites and Jews, there is only a believing "remnant". So not every Jew will be saved.

I love you dearly ... but Paul says "all"

The church has forgotten ELECTION.

[the Jews] are enemies of the gospel for your sakes but as touching ELECTION they are BELOVED for the sake of the fathers for the gifts and call of God are without repentance.

Now we see it is not the remnant who are enemies of the gospel but the unbelieving and disobedient and they who are enemies of the gospel are call beloved by God.

We may argue just exactly what "all" means but in my mind at least it does not mean just a tiny few.

Remember also this, they are not promised heaven [the seed of Abraham] but the earth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28) Jacob is representative of God's elect (Rom 9:11).

Most people do not see the distinction between the nation of Israel and Jacob/Israel.



Respectfully, I disagree with your interpretation of these scriptures representing the whole nation of Israel, in order to harmonize with other scriptures, these scriptures are referencing Jacob as Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect (Rom 9) Verse 6-8, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, (Jacob/Israel) which are of Israel. (nation).

“God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28)”

It’s interesting the changing of names by God . Seths name replaced abels who cain killed before he could be included in the geneology of Israel which led to Christ

It’s interesting to me because even cain who was first born , abel ( Seth ) was second seems to set a pattern of the second being the blessed and the first ends up cursed throughout scripture

Cain was cursed through sin , abel and then Seth through righteousness and sacrifice in the name of the lord.

Not Abram the Hebrew but abraham the father of many nations because he believed God

not ishmael the firstborn , but Isaac the second born

not esau the firstborn but Jacob the second, and then not the name Jacob , but the name given by God Israel leading to the children of Israel the single nation.

eventually even Christians are promised a new name not Simon but “Peter” not Saul but Paul ….

and believers still have a promise resembling it it seems our father wants to rename us himself

“And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭62:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
‬‬
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems when we are born again God really does want to be a father naming thier children is something a father loves to do

 

[Nehemiah6]

in the Old Testament it is specifically flesh and blood that identifies israel , in the New Testament that is removed and it is the spirit and faith of Christ that makes one an Israelite and has nothing to do with flesh and blood

Within the Church there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. But after the Church has been completed and caught up to Heaven, God and Christ will resume their direct dealings with those who are the descendants of Jacob- -- the twelve tribes. Therefore Paul says that Christ will "turn away ungodliness from Jacob" (meaning Israel) at His Second Coming (Rom 11:26).

Gentile Christians particularly are warned not to be "high minded" . God has an eternal plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel (the twelve tribes). And that goes all the way back to Abraham. While I am a Gentile, I do not oppose or discount the promises of God to believing Israel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

“God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28)”

It’s interesting the changing of names by God . Seths name replaced abels who cain killed before he could be included in the geneology of Israel which led to Christ

It’s interesting to me because even cain who was first born , abel ( Seth ) was second seems to set a pattern of the second being the blessed and the first ends up cursed throughout scripture

Cain was cursed through sin , abel and then Seth through righteousness and sacrifice in the name of the lord.

Not Abram the Hebrew but abraham the father of many nations because he believed God

not ishmael the firstborn , but Isaac the second born

not esau the firstborn but Jacob the second, and then not the name Jacob , but the name given by God Israel leading to the children of Israel the single nation.

eventually even Christians are promised a new name not Simon but “Peter” not Saul but Paul ….

and believers still have a promise resembling it it seems our father wants to rename us himself

“And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭62:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
‬‬
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems when we are born again God really does want to be a father naming thier children is something a father loves to do

That is a good deviersion from Jacob's name being changed by God to be called Israel. So, what is your thinking of Jacob being named Israel. I think that most of the children of God thinks that the word "Israel" when used in the scriptures, has reference to the whole nation of Israel, instead of applying it to Jacob. as Israel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Within the Church there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile. But after the Church has been completed and caught up to Heaven, God and Christ will resume their direct dealings with those who are the descendants of Jacob- -- the twelve tribes. Therefore Paul says that Christ will "turn away ungodliness from Jacob" (meaning Israel) at His Second Coming (Rom 11:26).

Gentile Christians particularly are warned not to be "high minded" . God has an eternal plan and purpose for redeemed and restored Israel (the twelve tribes). And that goes all the way back to Abraham. While I am a Gentile, I do not oppose or discount the promises of God to believing Israel.

Rom 9:6 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

Jacob as Israel, has nothing to do with the 12 tribes. Those that Jacob/Israel represents are God's elect (Rom 9:11). from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. (Rev 5:9). and that goes all the way back to Adam.

 

[persistent]

“God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28)”

It’s interesting the changing of names by God . Seths name replaced abels who cain killed before he could be included in the geneology of Israel which led to Christ

It’s interesting to me because even cain who was first born , abel ( Seth ) was second seems to set a pattern of the second being the blessed and the first ends up cursed throughout scripture

Cain was cursed through sin , abel and then Seth through righteousness and sacrifice in the name of the lord.

Not Abram the Hebrew but abraham the father of many nations because he believed God

not ishmael the firstborn , but Isaac the second born

not esau the firstborn but Jacob the second, and then not the name Jacob , but the name given by God Israel leading to the children of Israel the single nation.

eventually even Christians are promised a new name not Simon but “Peter” not Saul but Paul ….

and believers still have a promise resembling it it seems our father wants to rename us himself

“And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭62:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
‬‬
“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems when we are born again God really does want to be a father naming thier children is something a father loves to do

Hello my friend, Hope uncle arthur is taking it easy. You are always pointing out something that strikes me and just today I made a post in response to something on the post about The Holy Spirit but was instigated by another post about coincidences which came up somewhere?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jacob as Israel, has nothing to do with the 12 tribes.

Then Romans 11:25-36 would be utterly meaningless. So explain the meaning of that passage.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hello my friend, Hope uncle arthur is taking it easy. You are always pointing out something that strikes me and just today I made a post in response to something on the post about The Holy Spirit but was instigated by another post about coincidences which came up somewhere?

yes I was saying also it’s the same for
Me if I see a post it will
Often bring me to thinking about something I might not have considered

I think it’s part of Gods design when Christian’s come together to discuss his word we as Christian’s seem to inspire thinking in each other if the spirit is right

and yes Arthur is always around but hes not always loud thanks for the concern brother

I’m not sure what you mean to ask there in the end

 

[persistent]

how God recognizes and so how we identify israel has changed from flesh and blood physical , to the spirit of Christ Abraham’s seed spiritual

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭

in the Old Testament it is specifically flesh and blood that identifies israel , in the New Testament that is removed and it is the spirit and faith of Christ that makes one an Israelite and has nothing to do with flesh and blood

It’s something God has made plain for us for anyone to be saved we have to be born of Christ spiritually not of Abraham physically

“Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

… But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:1-4, 8-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel’s only problem is rejecting Christ and the gospel it’s the same issue for gentiles. No one can ever be saved if they don’t repent and believe the gospel being of Israeli flesh and blood won’t ever save anyone nor being of gentile flesh and blood will condemn anyone

the only salvstion for anyone is to accept Christ Jesus and his promise of salvstion in the gospel

Hey ,Pilgrimshope, on 25 Sept 2022 a Sunday I had a two hour communication by phone with teacher from group calling themselves House of Jacob. They follow all the OT Sabbaths and believe in Father and Son but maybe not Holy Spirit as individual but Power. I started talking with HoJ about 2 yrs ago about ((((((Acts 15:13 ¶ And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.)))))) I can't get it out of my head that these verses are talking about a group like HoJ being established just prior to tribulation. Have I gone off the deep end??

 

[persistent]

yes I was saying also it’s the same for
Me if I see a post it will
Often bring me to thinking about something I might not have considered

I think it’s part of Gods design when Christian’s come together to discuss his word we as Christian’s seem to inspire thinking in each other if the spirit is right

and yes Arthur is always around but hes not always loud thanks for the concern brother

I’m not sure what you mean to ask there in the end

Another coincidence in my life?????I am 2nd born and quit drinking 4 Aug. 1989 and my brother died of alcoholic cardiomyopathy around 25 Aug 1989. I flew in to Chicago from California for the funeral where I met my father for about the 3rd time in my life. unusual Your post was talking about 2nd born and etc.

 

[Iconoclast]

Just collecting information. What is your understanding of "the remnant of Israel"?

Isa.1:9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
rom.
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rom 9:6 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

Jacob as Israel, has nothing to do with the 12 tribes. Those that Jacob/Israel represents are God's elect (Rom 9:11). from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. (Rev 5:9). and that goes all the way back to Adam.

Rom 9:6 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

Jacob as Israel, has nothing to do with the 12 tribes. Those that Jacob/Israel represents are God's elect (Rom 9:11).

the twelve tribes are jacobs twelve sons , the line of Judah is the line to follow when jacob blessed his twelve sons when he was dying

“Judah is a lion's whelp: From the prey, my son, thou art gone up: He stooped down, he couched as a lion, And as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh come; And unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Binding his foal unto the vine, And his ass's colt unto the choice vine; He washed his garments in wine, And his clothes in the blood of grapes:

His eyes shall be red with wine, And his teeth white with milk.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭49:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

judahs line leads to Jesus the lion of the tribe of Judah. Judah is one of jacobs twelve sons who were blessed before the promised land making one of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel the tribe of Judah.

before the gospel the Old Testament was all the world had it’s where the 144000 come from but notice after the tribes are numbered then we see gentiles appear from all nations with them , they don’t replace the tribes but they appear on the kingdom with them now everyone’s included not only Israelites by flesh but everyone is now included in one heavenly kingdom


“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But the 144000 are still there also after they are numbered early on

“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They are all of the tribes of jacob ( two have been grafted in and altered in johns vision long story )

the twelve tribes of Israel are important to God it is they who were first called his children

“Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭14:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s been redeeming people who belong to him always

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hey ,Pilgrimshope, on 25 Sept 2022 a Sunday I had a two hour communication by phone with teacher from group calling themselves House of Jacob. They follow all the OT Sabbaths and believe in Father and Son but maybe not Holy Spirit as individual but Power. I started talking with HoJ about 2 yrs ago about ((((((Acts 15:13 ¶ And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.)))))) I can't get it out of my head that these verses are talking about a group like HoJ being established just prior to tribulation. Have I gone off the deep end??

I don’t think you have gone off the deep end ha ha 😂 but can I ask you what you would have thought of you had watched the Jim jones and “Jonestown “news reports in the late seventies ?

what I mean is there’s always been misguided cult groups that follow false teachings and try to convince others of what they have believed some are very dangerous like Jim jones , David Koresh , I can’t remember the guy who waited for Haley’s comet and thought it was thier ride to heaven but that happened also around the year 2000 thirty years after Jim jones

those men are extreme examples but there are a lot of corrupt cultish things to be wary of in the world claiming to be “ the right and only interpretation of the Bible “ can be dangerous is my point. Anyone who is insisting you must accept thier ideas not those in scripture to really understand is always going to make me wary we really do have to watch our own selves and who were listening to too much jesusnis always the guy to hear in our bibles it’s “ole faithful “or what kids call the “ go to “

Jesus can keep us on the right paths if we stick to him teaching us and us learning from him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Another coincidence in my life?????I am 2nd born and quit drinking 4 Aug. 1989 and my brother died of alcoholic cardiomyopathy around 25 Aug 1989. I flew in to Chicago from California for the funeral where I met my father for about the 3rd time in my life. unusual Your post was talking about 2nd born and etc.

wow sounds like some trials brother , what do you mean “ met your father the third time ?” Your dad wasn’t around in life you mean ? That's a tough one that a lot of Folk seem to have these days I notice I’m sorry to hear that have you ever saw the movie “ show us the father “ ?

I saw it about a year ago it’s a few different Christian testimonies and stories who went through not having a father present in life and how they have come closer to God through thier experiences and learning of thier true father also sort of cinematic telling of a well Known parable pretty worthwhile movie

Life can be a tough flight to avoid all the turbulence and enemy fire sometimes we can really take a hit and even go down for a time but Jesus always seems to have a parachute we didn’t know about , and a plan to get us home when we go down brother

I used to hate the hard times we all come through but in the end it’s part of the journey that leads to Jesus who then can lead us home

 

[persistent]

I don’t think you have gone off the deep end ha ha 😂 but can I ask you what you would have thought of you had watched the Jim jones and “Jonestown “news reports in the late seventies ?

what I mean is there’s always been misguided cult groups that follow false teachings and try to convince others of what they have believed some are very dangerous like Jim jones , David Koresh , I can’t remember the guy who waited for Haley’s comet and thought it was thier ride to heaven but that happened also around the year 2000 thirty years after Jim jones

those men are extreme examples but there are a lot of corrupt cultish things to be wary of in the world claiming to be “ the right and only interpretation of the Bible “ can be dangerous is my point. Anyone who is insisting you must accept thier ideas not those in scripture to really understand is always going to make me wary we really do have to watch our own selves and who were listening to too much jesusnis always the guy to hear in our bibles it’s “ole faithful “or what kids call the “ go to “

Jesus can keep us on the right paths if we stick to him teaching us and us learning from him

I agree with you 100% and from 1971-1976, approximately, I was involved with the Armstrong cult. Not strong ties but they baptized me. Twice!! I was told the first time it didn't take and needed to be baptized again. Go Figure. The first minister that baptized me was surnamed Greene or GREEN and one time he let me have a taste of the white lightning his father distilled. Very good stuff! That was in Indiana. Then a minister Carl in Illinois baptized me about 2 yrs later. Then about 1975 I took a class in political science, which I don't think I completed as I have always been a 'reluctant' student, at the Armstrong college in Pasadena, Ca., and that year minister Carl was visiting his alma mater and had a car wreck on GREEN Street. Not serious and I didn't think about it until maybe just last year. A little coincidence. When I keep seeing these things I start realizing God was either having me 'watched' or 'signaling' me. But I was too busy playing the fool and took at least 40 yrs. to respond. Like Israelites in the wilderness? I will tell the teacher at HoJ that either he will convert me or I will convert him. And now with the help I get on this site I feel the Holy Spirit is 'truly' giving me 'some' guidance. I have never communicated like this before in my life and no longer feel like praying is a crazy thing to do. Which reminds me that when I prayed earlier today it was the first time I asked about hearing the 'True Shepherds' voice and I am sort of hoping that has something to do with "breaking strongholds' . Do you know anything about 'strongholds'? I first heard about it from a tv preacher in Indiana and on this site twice.

 

[loveme1]

Romans 11

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hearunto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.