The Rod of Gods Anger.

[Israel]

??? Bible verses please?

you give Satan WAY too much power in your mind.

how and when does the Bible say let Satan wreck havoc in your life?

What are you learning from Satan? How to suffer?

mmm These are the Bible verses I see about Satan and learning....

James 4
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

Hmmm does it say to submit to Satan? Or does it mention LEARNING from Satan?....mmmm, maybe we should find out who our TRUE teacher should be?

1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Satan teaches DEMONIC wisdom and the rottenness is evident in his servants and yield thorns and briars....

James 3
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Galatians 5 is always good to read too.

1 Timothy 1:18-20

18This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;

19Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

20Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Not so much learning, but learning what NOT to do BY THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FLESH.

 

[Deadflesh]

I thought the bible says that we are given over to Satan to LEARN by the destruction of the flesh?

1 Timothy 1:20
Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan(anger of God), so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

1 corinthians 5:5
to deliver such a one unto Satan(anger/judgement/wrath of god, for being dissobedeint) for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may( be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

(Parenthesis mine)


You anger God, dissobey him, blaspheme him, HE allows SATAN to come and torment you, then you can REPENT and follow JESUS, REPENT and do the things you first did. OR you can harden your heart, and be given over to satan, compeltely. NO sin in the body, cast him out deliver him up to destruction and PRAY that he repents. A little leven levens the whole lump. We MUST obey. Dotn worry about being sinless. worry about obeying GOD, and then HE wil lget you to where you should be, HE will perfect you, and make you holy adn bameless. YOu NEED to have the fear of the LORD. Repent. (not to anyone in particular, but to everyone, myself included)

 

[AnandaHya]

?? it talks about casting them out of the protection of the church and not to eat or keep company with them....some people have said those verses refer to capital punishment.

1 corinthians 5
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Satan is NOT the anger of God.

such a one has not accepted Jesus as LORD and SAVIOR but is a wolf who only claims to be of God but is shown not to be by his actions and behavior.

 

[zone]

1 Timothy 1:20
Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan(anger of God), so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

1 corinthians 5:5
to deliver such a one unto Satan(anger/judgement/wrath of god, for being dissobedeint) for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may( be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

(Parenthesis mine)


You anger God, dissobey him, blaspheme him, HE allows SATAN to come and torment you, then you can REPENT and follow JESUS, REPENT and do the things you first did. OR you can harden your heart, and be given over to satan, compeltely. NO sin in the body, cast him out deliver him up to destruction and PRAY that he repents. A little leven levens the whole lump. We MUST obey. Dotn worry about being sinless. worry about obeying GOD, and then HE wil lget you to where you should be, HE will perfect you, and make you holy adn bameless. YOu NEED to have the fear of the LORD. Repent. (not to anyone in particular, but to everyone, myself included)

i don't have torment.
i'm not bothered by demons, rarely give satan much thought.

pretty much peaceful and content in The Lord.

maybe i like simple and clean...no fretting.

 

[Deadflesh]

Isaiah 14 is just plain and simply, in context about Nebuchadnezzar.

In Context. yes. Quite. GOD is talkign to the King of Bablyon. but it is ALSO a spiritual picture. Scripture has a Historical context, a personal context, and a spiritual, or Ill call it an Ekklisial context. as it pertains to NOW the spiritual side of GODS people.


you can spiritualize it to be about Jesus sending demons to christians who are not sinless if you want to.
it says or intends nothing of the kind.

Maybe not to you. But what GOD did with Phsyical babylon he did with Physcial Jerusalem(israel), well, apostate physical jeruslaem, NOW its SPIRITUAL jeruslaem, and he is handeling Apostate SPIRITUAL jerusalem the same way he hadnled apostate PHYSICAL, in his ANGER.

Ezekiel is talking about the King of Tyre, Hiram.


and I have set thee so; from whom all kings have their sceptres, crowns, and kingdoms; and by whom they reign; and who can put them down as well as set them up at his pleasure. It may be rendered, "I have given thee" (t); or suffered thee to be so, as the word "give" is often used; it is by divine permission that antichrist has taken such power to himself, and in judgment to them over whom he rules, who are given up to believe a lie; yea, God "put", or, as it is in the original text, "gave" it into the hearts of the kings to agree and give their kingdom to the beast, Revelation 17:17, thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; not on Sinai, nor on Zion; on neither of which was the king of Tyre; nor was this literally true of him; for to say, as Kimchi does to illustrate it, that Hiram king of Tyre assisted Solomon with materials to build the temple, is very foreign; but this is true of the antitype of the king of Tyre, antichrist; who has set his foot on God's holy mountain the church

(hmm...you usually yell at peopel for not siteing thier quotes...maybe i missed it, did you site this?)

yes, a type of satan.
but the continuing suggestion that God uses these kings, which He does, whether flesh or principalities against Christians who are not "walking in the Spirit" shows that you still have not corrected your error that there are two kinds of Christians described in Romans 8.

there are people who are not saved, that claim Christ's Name...but those who are saved by Grace through Faith will be saved to the uttermost.

YES AMEN ZONE!!and they will be the OBEDIENT ONES.

Does GOD chastise those he loves? WAHT does he chastise them with? Please what is it that GOD beats us with?

 

[zone]

YES AMEN ZONE!!and they will be the OBEDIENT ONES.

Does GOD chastise those he loves? WAHT does he chastise them with? Please what is it that GOD beats us with?

the Holy Spirit convicts me when i sin or do what's wrong.
i've never felt beaten by satan if that's what you're saying.

not since being saved anyways.

dunno. i think you're spiritualizing passages too much and applying historical narrative to christians.

where is God is enraged with His beloved DF?

i dont get that part.

The Holy Spirit will perform His Commission.

 

[Deadflesh]

i don't have torment.
i'm not bothered by demons, rarely give satan much thought.

pretty much peaceful and content in The Lord.

maybe i like simple and clean...no fretting.

Well it really depends on HOW satan is manifesting. He can do it in pride, arrogance, sarcasm, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc...he can do it in sickness(im not sayign ALL sickness is from sin, but some most defiantely is) its ALL judgment. ALL through FLESH that is why Jesus said DENY SELF. and the Holy spirit said WALK IN ME. NOT FLESH. FLESH is the nature of the beast, nature of satan. you walk in the flesh you are in rebllion.

IF you beak the law, you are breakign the LAW, its jsut that GODS law is NOW i nthe spirit. If YOU are fine that thats FINE. MANY are not. MAny love there flesh, and dont want to give it up, so God deceives tham and they think they are Rich, but are blind naked and poor and need to repent. IF its not you, thne thats fine, but we ALL must make sure its not us.

 

[zone]

Well it really depends on HOW satan is manifesting. He can do it in pride, arrogance, sarcasm, bitterness, anger, hatred, etc...he can do it in sickness(im not sayign ALL sickness is from sin, but some most defiantely is) its ALL judgment. ALL through FLESH that is why Jesus said DENY SELF. and the Holy spirit said WALK IN ME. NOT FLESH. FLESH is the nature of the beast, nature of satan. you walk in the flesh you are in rebllion.

IF you beak the law, you are breakign the LAW, its jsut that GODS law is NOW i nthe spirit. If YOU are fine that thats FINE. MANY are not. MAny love there flesh, and dont want to give it up, so God deceives tham and they think they are Rich, but are blind naked and poor and need to repent. IF its not you, thne thats fine, but we ALL must make sure its not us.

if you "walk in the flesh" (per Romans 8) you are unregenerate.

if you are "in the Spirit" (per Romans 8) you are saved.

the flesh isn't evil DF. God created man and said its good.

its the MIND/HEART that is fallen.

control the mind, and control the flesh.

God deceives them? noooo....they have deceived themselves. He is offering the solution.

maybe i don't sin much. i'm not in torment or fear of the Lord, i feel at peace and reconciled and content.

i get convicted when i sin or screw up, and i know it and confess it. but never one time have i ever felt Jesus would cast me away....

that's not what He Promised at all.

 

[Deadflesh]

the Holy Spirit convicts me when i sin or do what's wrong.
i've never felt beaten by satan if that's what you're saying.

not since being saved anyways.

dunno. i think you're spiritualizing passages too much and applying historical narrative to christians.

where is God is enraged with His beloved DF?

i dont get that part.

The Holy Spirit will perform His Commission.

I use beat loosly, its Chastisement, scourging(scorouge means with a belt) GOD chastises those he loves right? and he would ONLY chastise us if we are dissobedient right? He is "Chastising" the WORLD constantly, but they are not sons, he still loves us, and MAYBE if they are apart of GODS family they will repent. But his Judgement is on them constatnly for Breaking the LAW. ALL the world has broken the LAW. IN christ JEsus, we are fullfilling the LAW, IF, IF we stay in him, IF we abide that is a Concious effort on our part to OBEY. and AS we obey JESUS, HE puts to death the deeds of the flesh i nand through us.

IF we REBEL, which is possible for us to do, HE scourges, he lets Satan have at us. SATAN wants to have at us 24 7, but GOD i nhis grace love and mercy, doesnt let him. UNTILL then there is a legal reson(breakign GODS law of walkign in LOVE) to do o, and then you break the law and get punishment, FOr the chidlren of GOD Punsihment will ead to a closeness to GOD, for the WORLD, or those who call themselves Christians but have NO fear of GOD, and do not obey, it will push them further away. Righteous will be more so, wicked will be more so, all from GODS righteous judgment. IN CHRIST there is no condemenation but WE must remain IN CHRIST. it is not a saved, unsaved type thing. it is a covered/uncovered by the hedge of pratection, when we are in rebellion we dont have peace. the PEACE of the LORD passes AL Lunderstanding, you DONT get sick as much as you did when you were in rebellion you DONT have confusion, and GOD is teachign you left and right, HIS spirit is leadign you to put to death the deeds of the flesh and you walk in obedeicne to him. I dont need you to list what you do, thats between YOU and GOD. But it DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT, that When YOU sin, its rebellion adn to ALL who rebel Gods anger is agaisnt them, some for only a second, some for etenrity

 

[Deadflesh]

if you "walk in the flesh" (per Romans 8) you are unregenerate.

if you are "in the Spirit" (per Romans 8) you are saved.

If you are IN THE SPIRIT, you are not sinning. (per Galtains 5:16)

the flesh isn't evil DF. God created man and said its good.
(No actually the flesh NATURE is pure evil, GOD tells you to not follow after it or live in it, if you disobey those orders you DO NOT LOVE GOD, and Jesus doesn have your heart in that area, not my words HIS)

its the MIND/HEART that is fallen.
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. Roamsn 7:18

control the mind, and control the flesh.
(Have the MIND OF CHRIST by obeying HIS WORDS, and denying self, then HE controls the flesh, by putting YOU i nhis spirit and keeping you there, IF you obey.)

God deceives them? noooo....they have deceived themselves. He is offering the solution.
("And if the prophet be deceived when he has spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand on him, and will destroy him from the middle of my people Israel." Ezkiel 14:9)

maybe i don't sin much. i'm not in torment or fear of the Lord, i feel at peace and reconciled and content.
(maybe not, Hopefully not i never said you did, your not SUPOSED TO, no one is SUPOSED To. Im glad you have peace, and feel content, NOT EVERYONE DOES, im simply explaining WHAT it is that cause one to NOT have that, the way GOD Showed me, and i hope you fear the LORD, we all need to be)

i get convicted when i sin or screw up, and i know it and confess it. but never one time have i ever felt Jesus would cast me away....
(thats wonderful, IN christ that is exactly what happens, IN christ the Holy spirit Convicts of ALL sin, and the closer we get to GOD the MORE he points out what HE doesnt like, and SIN gets more and more aparent, God showed ME that Sarcasm is NOT somthign he likes, maybe he ment for ME, but thats somthig The Holy spirit put HEAVY on my heart, it greives him in me everytime...its hard to get over, ...harder then bitterness torwards my earthly father was to get over...i still slip into it from time to time, but GOD shows, I respond, adn i wor to put that to death, usually in prayer, and and ALWAYS in obedeince)

that's not what He Promised at all.

He promised freedom from Sin. and eternal life, IF you follow HIM and obey HIM. that is the condition, OBEDIENCE. better then sacrifice, and is NEEDED. IF we are dissobedeint then Anger and jsudgent is on us. thats what the Bible repeadedly says. We will know we are not in proper standing with GOD becasue his PEace and Joy is GONE, and we are NO LONGER gettign any closer to him, or gettign to knwo him any more. IF we have days, where we just "cant stop stumbling" Somthig nis VER VERY WRONG, it measn you are NOT in the spirit, and are NOT resisting sin, if A Christian is not resisting SIN, that means he is NOT IN JESUS it means there is somthing unrepentant in him, or he has an idol or SOMTHING and then, becasue we have FEAR OF GOD, we go TO JESUS andask him to show us what it is. We are to work out our salvation with FEAR and TREMLBING.

 

[zone]

ok DF
i see a fair amount of personal interpretation to fit your beliefs, so let's leave it at that.
we get into trouble when we go fishing for verses and add our own ideas in brackets.

because if i respond to the biblical text OR your personal interpretation, you take it that i am disagreeing with scripture.

so this form of dialogue doesn't work well.

love you
zoney

 

[Deadflesh]

Desire, becomes, an idol, which is sin. SIN.

When you desire somthing (anything that isnt JESUS) it becomes an idol, when you have an idol:

"... these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?" Ezeikiel 14:3

When you have an idol in your heart, it becomes SIN(desire becomes Sin) and when SIN is a stumbling block in your face, YOU CANT SEE THAT YOU ARE IN SIN, becasue YOU love that idol MORE then JESUS, it could be a doactirne, a person, family member, ANYTHING, SELF. What ever. So YOU then think your fine, but you arent.

GOD was the one who SEARCHED your heart, Tested your heart, SAW that you loved The IDOL more then JESUS(love of the truth), and then sent a delusion on you. Deceived you. Its GOD that allowed it, HE did it, becasue HE searched your intent, and HE judged your HEART, adn HE either gave you repentence or ALLOWED you to be dceived...that is why its OUR JOBE to go to HIM Daily, humbly denyign Self wanting to now HIS will, for us that day, adn ask HIM to reveal ALL decpetion we may be in, and Keep us FROM temptation, and deception, and to humble us, WE must constantly and humbly Go to GOD, and WANT to be holy, blameless, adn righteous, and then when he sees its OUR DESIRE to do so, HE makes sure it happens. But WE can stop that process at ANY TIME if WE have anythig nthat is NOT 100% love For Jesus

 

[zone]

thanks DF.
i'm fine. i know my Saviour and i know what He expects.
don't worry so much ok?

love zone

 

[Deadflesh]

ok DF
i see a fair amount of personal interpretation to fit your beliefs, so let's leave it at that.
we get into trouble when we go fishing for verses and add our own ideas in brackets.

If its my Own ideas, ILL have JESUS Show me and judge me, but if its TRUTH, then you would be rejecting it. I wouldnt speak somthing unless i was positive it was true. There is allot of other stuff i would LOVE to post on, that i see the majority hs gotten wrong, but i wont becasue i have NOT gotten confirmation from GOD o nit, as to weather it was HIM Teachign me, Or myself speaking my own opinion.

because if i respond to the biblical text OR your personal interpretation, you take it that i am disagreeing with scripture.

AS you would if someone dissagreed with what you post. Im glad this is staying peaceable Zone, this is what i always want to have happen but hardly does(most likely my own fault)

so this form of dialogue doesn't work well.

Well its working ok for me at the moment. To dissagree is fine, but to take scripture out of context is not. And i find, a great marority of teachers(Armenian, and reformed) take scripture out of context. and HAVE for years. I dont consider myself to be either, i think both have GREAT points and truth, and both have LIES, and false doctrine. I Truly beleive that what GOD, has shown me, and i have put forth is truth. i understand MANY are not ogign to understadn it, belive it, especially not right away. I KNOW its truth though. I didnt even understadn it and i couldnt belive it for a bit either...but...im pretty firm on it.

love you
zoney

I know. I love you too Zonzies.

 

[Deadflesh]

thanks DF.
i'm fine. i know my Saviour and i know what He expects.
don't worry so much ok?

love zone

not worried for me dear sister, i know what God is doing in me. I just do what i feel God putting on my heart, and telling me to do. if he says "Teach" ill teach what i know, in the way i can. i WONT teach what i have no confirmation on in my spirit. If He says PREACH ill preach what I KNOW to be truth. If he says POST SCRIPTURE ill do that if GOD wants me to post,... a sermon?... ill do that.

Im glad you thnk your fine, and if you DO have the blessed assurence, then thats GREAT, but ALLOT of people have a FALSE security. ALLOT of peopel are in rebellio nto GOD, and have no idea. They SAY LORD LORD and do not know of the fear, and judgement of GOD. Peopel preach the LOVE of GOD. There are few different types of "LOVE" that god bestows on us. God LOVES all his creation, and ALL humans that is why he sent JESUS. But he bestows the Love of a FATHER, on his chidlren, and he bestows his mind, and his heart on those who OBEY him and want to spend time with him. Im not saying thats NOT you, but its NOT allot of others.

 

[AnandaHya]

Satan is NOT the wrath of God. Read Revelations and you will see what God's wrath is and it is AGAINST Satan that dragon of old, not THROUGH Satan.

God does NOT send Satan but allows Satan to sometimes test His people to show the world the difference between His people and the rest of the world by their Reactions not by being sheltered and always protected from evil. He shows how good overcomes evil.

I'm worried for you DF. why would God battle with Himself?

some of the links you have posted recently need more discernment and comparison to the Bible and are not trustworthy. I didn't notice this post but it explains some of why.

God does NOT use Satan in that manner.

He can control Satan but God has other angels He uses to reprimand and correct His children.

this blurring the line between good and evil is not wise or healthy. to say God controls is just like saying God does evil. whether you see this or not is your choice but I refuse to so defame God by saying things about Him that are lies.

Satan is NOT God's wrath.

God's wrath takes many forms: plagues wars, etc

Satan is NOT one of them otherwise you are saying God's house is divided and the Enemy is not really the enemy but an agent of God and that is a lie.



2 Chronicles 34:24-25
New King James Version (NKJV)
24 “Thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will bring calamity on this place and on its inhabitants, all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah, 25 because they have forsaken Me and burned incense to other gods, that they might provoke Me to anger with all the works of their hands. Therefore My wrath will be poured out on this place, and not be quenched.’”

 

[Tobby17]

Satan is God's wrath ...

I'm not gonna be a part of this

*Picks up his shoes and runs away*

 

[CrimsonFlames]

Thats Dangerously close to blasphemy if not already blasphemy

To call God and Satan one and the same?

Just saying., I would not have posted this without alot of review from peers first

Because to teach it and cause others to stumble is an even worse thing

Consider your stance and potentially repent

 

[AnandaHya]

perhaps I should have pmed you my words DF, but I hadn't looked at this thread. probably wouldn't have again but you posted a link to it on one of your other responses and I missed reading your big long response on the first page last week.



Anyways here are some Bible verses:

James 3

1 My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. 2 For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body.

1 Timothy 3
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.