The Role of Men in God's Design

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#1
God designed marriage much like God designed the church. Men lead in the home as they submit to Christ. Men lead the church as they submit to Christ.

Some teach that this is old fashion, tradition, a way of ancient culture, or misogynistic in nature. But the Bible doesn't give us any other opinion.

Ephesians 5:23
New King James Version
23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

1 Timothy 3:2
English Standard Version
2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

For many decades, men have become passive and persuaded by modern feminism that men in general are oppressive and part of the hypothetical patriarchal system.

Patriarchy— is a system of social organization that recognizes, encourages, and reproduces the seemingly natural and necessary domination of men over women.

Does the Bible teach domination over women? Of course not.

The Bible speaks to the simple fact of biology and design. Men and women are different from their genetic code to muscular capacity. It is often the women and children who are preyed upon and often by inherent duty men feel the need to destroy the predators of society.

An inner nature to defend the biologically weak from the evils of evil men.

For too long the culture has taught that all men are the problem and that somewhere after WW2 while the men went to war, the industries saw they could make money off of the labor of women as well. The home would later be split up as dad and mom work 12-hour shifts and the kids are brainwashed by public education.

Feminist movements begin in waves and started in the late 1800s. The first wave was largely equality and the right to vote.

Where things start to turn is in 1963 during the Vietnam War massive protests erupted. A new wave of feminism would begin. This time second-wave feminists called for a reevaluation of traditional gender roles in society, an end to sexist discrimination, equal pay, and with Roe v Wade reproductive rights.

The pay was being abused and discrimination was very much real but notice now they attack the mother and the children.

Wave three would hit in 1990, the key issues would now be sexual harassment in the workplace, shortage of women in power, and inclusion when it came to race and gender. Intersectionality is a product of Marxism (Critical theory) how types of oppression (based on race, class, gender, etc.) gives people a social credit score based on how oppressed they are, and finally support for trans rights.

Now under legitimate issues (never let a good crisis go to waste) certain groups began to push the agenda of Marx and Engels to divide people into classes and so began the attack on gender itself with including trans rights.

Modern feminism/LGBT+ movements, we hear the topics of toxic masculinity, 100 plus gender pronouns, abortion rights, “I don't need a man”, intersectionality score, a woman is to be called chest feeding versus breastfeeding, a biological man (trans) can play woman sports, use woman's restrooms, be housed in woman's prisons or use their changing rooms. A woman can kill her child in the womb or even hours after birth. Marriage would be allowed to homosexuals and the culture pushes to redefine pedophiles as Minor Attracted Persons. People in some states can marry children, their dog, or even their model airplane. Equal pay for equal work has become equal pay no matter the quality of work. Hiring women to power has now become hiring those on the intersectionality score deemed most oppressed versus those of merit and qualification.

Thank God that positive things came out of the early movements but as each wave came, it got more and more like the culture away from God.

Men are designed to lead the home and the church. Not that women must be submissive to all authority but only to that that is aligned with God. Not the abuse of men but that which God has ordained as good.

The man is called to submit to Christ, to love the wife like he loves himself, and to love like Christ loves the Church.

If you really consider Jesus's teachings on how a man should lead then like any good leader he sacrifices to serve those under him. He uplifts and protects those under his authority.

The Overseer, elder, and pastor carry only male pronouns. The same structure of marriage carries over to the Church. This doesn't imply a woman can not teach, evangelize, or speak in church. But it does imply a woman can not be a pastor and a woman (if married) should honor her scriptural status as a wife to not subvert her husband as a leader (that is if the husband is trying to lead).

We must never sacrifice the roles that God has designed men and women to be. A man can not birth a child. A woman can not get pregnant without a man. A man's brain chemistry as a father brings positive traits a child needs. Same as a biological mother.

We must not waver or back away from reality/God's design. The truth will always be true regardless of feelings.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,480
12,948
113
#2
God designed marriage much like God designed the church. Men lead in the home as they submit to Christ. Men lead the church as they submit to Christ.
The key to this is the fact that God (the triune Godhead) is MASCULINE. It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. So here is what Scripture tells us: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1 Cor 11:3) This is not the opinion of the apostle Paul but it is a divine revelation from God the Holy Spirit.

In this verse "head" means "authority over". So what we have is:
1. God the Father is Head over God the Son (Christ) who is also fully God
2. Christ is the Head of the Church, which is His Body, Bride, and Building
3. Christ is also Head over every Christian man
4. Finally the Christian man is head or authority over his wife. This goes all the way back to Adam.

The symbol of authority in this context is the head covering for Christian women during worship. That speaks of the wife's submission (a) firstly to Christ and (b) secondly to her own husband. And evidently the holy angels observe this according to Scripture. Which means that the Christian husband is the spiritual leader in the home, and Christian men are spiritual leaders within the local church. Thus Christian men must worship with uncovered heads and Christian women with covered heads.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,428
113
#3
If I may push it a little further…

The purpose of marriage between a man and a woman is to represent Christ and the church. The one (marriage) represents the other (Christ and the church). Marriage was given for this reason. This is why they are so closely linked.

Facets of God‘s characteristics may also be seen in employment, rule, nature, relationships, etc.

Unlike the world, wherein men struggle for equality, the spiritual nature of God’s design is that of sameness; or “of the same nature”. Yet, the Lord perfectly preserves our uniqueness within the corporate man of Christ. And, because no one, save for Christ, may completely represent God, we are, each one one of us, given a role to represent His characteristics as we operate among the others in the body.

This is the mystery of majesty: a magistrate functions within the authority he or she has been given and, thus, displays the nature of the One who has all authority. In this way, he or she is without blame as they function in line with the One who is the standard of Life.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,985
26,118
113
#4
Unlike the world, wherein men struggle for equality,
Interesting! I would have thought that men struggle for superiority, while women struggle for equality .:unsure::)
 

MsMediator

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2022
948
609
93
#5
Where things start to turn is in 1963 during the Vietnam War massive protests erupted. A new wave of feminism would begin. This time second-wave feminists called for a reevaluation of traditional gender roles in society, an end to sexist discrimination, equal pay, and with Roe v Wade reproductive rights.
Betty Friedan is often credited for the second wave feminism with her book The Feminine Mystic. She herself was (unhappily) married and had three children. While I have not read her book, reading some articles posts here and there show much of the input for her book came from unhappy housewives and her research/observations of unhappy wives. This is not really a case of singles/anti-marriage people tried to convince people to stay single (not really a singles vs marrieds battle), etc. but it was more the unhappy wife club venting about wanting more than domestic duties. There is a distinction. It is the daughters of these women who read this book and possibly observing their own growing up family dynamics (i.e., the young/college age women) who led other stuff such as raising awareness of sex assault, "free love" movement, "sexual revolution" (which is caused by a variety of factors including feminism, abortion, the Beatles, etc.), etc.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,331
113
#6
According to Pew Research, the Biggest Atheist Group WorldWide is White Men between Ages of 25 - 35. Due to Age Restrictions, DEATH, Illness, This Age Group is also the Largest Among All Age Groups within the Men Category. This means, This Age Group + Women are currently responsible for the past 4 Presidents. They have more say based upon numbers. I hope I did not forget to mention that they are ATHEIST? Because, they help push the World's [SIN] Agenda. And without Godly Intervention, they make it Impossible to set up some things We desperately need and require. So Men, Sinful Men, Men who Deny and Reject God, kind of Men. Are more of a hindrance than Feminism in today's world.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#7
Interesting! I would have thought that men struggle for superiority, while women struggle for equality .:unsure::)
It could be that equal pay has been abused where for instance in a harder labor job men may have to help a woman more so than a man so they end up working harder but still get paid the same.

Or how corporations have hiring requirements that put woman, race, lgbt factors ahead of men in less of course you are a liberal black trans man.

Same with college admissions.

I have known quite a few good men to be messed up by child custody laws in divorce, child support with the threat of jail even though they keep the kids 50/50, etc.

And good luck if you are a conservative white man who they deem as a born racist who must pay reparations, and homophobic in nature.

It isn't as bad as women had in the early 1900s but there is a trend of these groups seeing men as the enemy.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#8
Betty Friedan is often credited for the second wave feminism with her book The Feminine Mystic. She herself was (unhappily) married and had three children. While I have not read her book, reading some articles posts here and there show much of the input for her book came from unhappy housewives and her research/observations of unhappy wives. This is not really a case of singles/anti-marriage people tried to convince people to stay single (not really a singles vs marrieds battle), etc. but it was more the unhappy wife club venting about wanting more than domestic duties. There is a distinction. It is the daughters of these women who read this book and possibly observing their own growing up family dynamics (i.e., the young/college age women) who led other stuff such as raising awareness of sex assault, "free love" movement, "sexual revolution" (which is caused by a variety of factors including feminism, abortion, the Beatles, etc.), etc.
The daughters of the rising generations need a Biblical worldview just as men do. Each gender has to see the beauty and strength when we operate in our God given design. The ills of men and women would be reigned in if the culture promoted morality. We should be asking why are we unhappy in our marriage and not blame the structure of marriage itself. More than likely an unhappy spouse is either due to personal sin or the other individual is lost in sin.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#9
According to Pew Research, the Biggest Atheist Group WorldWide is White Men between Ages of 25 - 35. Due to Age Restrictions, DEATH, Illness, This Age Group is also the Largest Among All Age Groups within the Men Category. This means, This Age Group + Women are currently responsible for the past 4 Presidents. They have more say based upon numbers. I hope I did not forget to mention that they are ATHEIST? Because, they help push the World's [SIN] Agenda. And without Godly Intervention, they make it Impossible to set up some things We desperately need and require. So Men, Sinful Men, Men who Deny and Reject God, kind of Men. Are more of a hindrance than Feminism in today's world.
I don't know the data seems off or the conclusion doesn't seem to match the data. It may be the largest in one age group but that doesn't imply who votes and doesn't factor in the numbers of all age group voters.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,522
1,428
113
#10
Interesting! I would have thought that men struggle for superiority, while women struggle for equality .:unsure::)
Men as in "humans".

In the U.S. this shows up as "rights". It's the language of the people, not a king. Jesus rules by representation, even to the point of inhabiting us.
After all, Christ IN US is the hope of glory. This is the same glory God gave Jesus. He's able to share this with us because we are not another. In this way, men and women are the same. Our roles, in the kingdom, do not give us value. The fact that we are found in Christ is what makes us new creatures and whether or not we receive responsibility in the kingdom correlates directly with our obedience to Him. If we are faithful with what we are given we will be given more.

In a culture wherein women's values are diminished it is impossible to discern the body. That is why much of the church is sick and weak: they've inserted their own traditions of men and women into their church culture.
 
Jun 20, 2022
6,460
1,331
113
#11
I don't know the data seems off or the conclusion doesn't seem to match the data. It may be the largest in one age group but that doesn't imply who votes and doesn't factor in the numbers of all age group voters.
I have no idea how they would go about to gather evidence to produce research results as they have. But this is the number one Age Group between men and the vast majority of them are Atheist.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,707
1,133
113
#12
The pay was being abused and discrimination was very much real but notice now they attack the mother and the children.
because it really had nothing to do with equality (equity, maybe). it had everything to do with abortion. :(
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#13
because it really had nothing to do with equality (equity, maybe). it had everything to do with abortion. :(
It's hard to say without speaking to woman of the 1960s. Abortion was definitely part of it but was women treated equally in the sense of human rights?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#14
I have no idea how they would go about to gather evidence to produce research results as they have. But this is the number one Age Group between men and the vast majority of them are Atheist.
But how many of the age group vote? May want to look up voting statistics as well.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#15
I have no idea how they would go about to gather evidence to produce research results as they have. But this is the number one Age Group between men and the vast majority of them are Atheist.
But how many of the age group vote? May want to look up voting statistics as well.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#16
Alot of whats missing is training up a child in the way he should go in todays society.
The role of both sexes is very important. It comes with a heavy responsibility that needs to be taught.
Just because you are a male does not make you a leader or head of anything.
The same for the female, you are not born submissive but need to be taught of what it actually is and why.
The enemy knew and knows if he could break up the family circle which GOD had design one day he would have a generation of his own. We see this in the world today. Not only in there ways of thinking but also stealing there identity and replacing it with a lie.
For men to become leaders it needs to be taught, (as CHRIST loves his church)
Women need to be more selective in who will lead them. Not that they are the lesser but by design, the example of decipleship.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,985
26,118
113
#17
It's hard to say without speaking to woman of the 1960s. Abortion was definitely
part of it but was women treated equally in the sense of human rights?
Not a hard question to answer considering women did not get to vote until 1920
in the US, and 1928 in Canada, although it was not until The Canadian Human
Rights Act of 1977 when we finally gave Canadians the right to equality, equal
opportunity, fair treatment, and an environment free of discrimination on the
basis of sex. However, the reality is still far from the ideal.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#18
This is interesting and raises some questions but in my opinion provides evidence to the balance that the Bible provides.

SEX AND CULTURE
BY J.D. Unwin, M.C., PH.D. LATE (1914) CLASSICAL EXHIBITIONER, ORIEL COLLEGE, OXFORD;

Unwin's study of 80 native cultures and 6 civilizations concluded that sexual restraint more in line with monogamous relationships always produced a thriving society where as sexual freedom always contributed to the decay.

“Generally speaking, in the past when they began to display great energy (as opposed to the lesser energy of uncivilized peoples), human societies were absolutely monogamous. There is only one example of a polygamous society displaying productive social energy, that of the Moors; but m their case the women whom the men took to wife had been reared in an absolutely monogamous tradition. The energy of the Moors faded away when the mothers spent their early childhood in a less rigorous tradition. With this exception, the energy of the most developed civilized societies, or that of any group within them, was exhibited for so long as they preserved their austere regulations. Their energy faded away as soon as a modified monogamy became part of the inherited tradition of the whole society.”

“These societies lived in different geographical environments; they belonged to different racial stocks; but the history of their marriage customs is the same. In the beginning each society had the same ideas in regard to sexual regulations. Then the same struggles took place; the same sentiments were expressed; the same changes were made; the same results ensued. Each society reduced its sexual opportunity to a minimum and, displaying great social energy, flourished greatly. Then it extended its sexual opportunity; its energy decreased, and faded away. The one outstanding feature of the whole story is its unrelieved monotony.”

“It is historically true to say that in the past social energy has been purchased at the price of individual freedom, for it has never been displayed unless the female of the species has sacrificed her rights as an individual and unless children have been treated as mere appendages to the estate of the male parent; but it would be rash to conclude that sexual opportunity cannot be reduced to a minimum under any other conditions. The evidence is that the subjection of women and children is intolerable and therefore temporary; but we should go beyond the evidence if we were to conclude from this fact that compulsory continence also is intolerable and therefore temporary. Such a statement, indeed, is contradicted by the tenor of the whole story.”

“When absolute monogamy was preserved only for a short time, the energy was only expansive, but when the rigorous tradition was inherited by a number of generations the energy became productive. As soon as the institution of modified monogamy, that is, marriage and divorce by mutual consent, became part of the inherited tradition of a complete new generation, the energy, either of the whole society or of a group within the society, decreased, and then disappeared.”

“Any human society is free to choose either to display great energy or to enjoy sexual freedom; the evidence is that it cannot do both for more than one generation.”
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#19
Not a hard question to answer considering women did not get to vote until 1920
in the US, and 1928 in Canada, although it was not until The Canadian Human
Rights Act of 1977 when we finally gave Canadians the right to equality, equal
opportunity, fair treatment, and an environment free of discrimination on the
basis of sex. However, the reality is still far from the ideal.
Yes but how was it in 1960s?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,985
26,118
113
#20
Yes but how was it in 1960s?
Women have rarely been treated equally in a broader scale. I am not talking about
giving women jobs that really only men can do. Plus, I was just a kid in the sixties
.:unsure::giggle: