the Sabbath

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 18, 2024
86
11
8
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Can you point out where this verse says;

It went from Levi to Christians.

Which is what I asked.
The Apostle Peter is speaking to Christians
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,407
234
63
Yes, He is specifically speaking about the priesthood in that passage, but he is showing How the law HAD TO BE CHANGED, but why change just that one thing? Put this scripture together with, the rest of the book—everything about the old Jewish law was described as inferior to the new law of Christ. When He says it is “obsolete and ready to vanish away,” he is not just talking about the priesthood—he is talking about all of the old law. It was being replaced as Hebrews 10:9 says. He took away that first covenant —ALL of it , not just the priesthood, the whole covenant and REPLACED it with the second” covenant, the New Testament law of Christ. Hebrews 7 says He changed “the law”; he did not qualify it as pertaining only to the priesthood.

Hebrews 7:7-“ For if that first covenant (law” had been faultless, then there would be no need for a SECOND. (The blood of bulls and goats can’t take away sins) that was one of the things wrong with the old Jewish kaw. Then he says, “Behold, the days are coming when I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with them when I took them Bryan the nand and led them out of Egypt..”. The New Testament law of Jesus Christ’s law is not the old Jewish law—it is even nothing LIKE the old Jewish law. Not only the priesthood was changed, there was a different and better sacrifice—the perfect, holy blood if Jesus. Everythin was changed.

Hebrews 7:18–“…there is an ANNULLING of the former commandment…because the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand there is the BRINGING IN of a better hope…verse 22- Jesus has become a surety of a BETTER COVENANT (law). He’s is not just talking about the priesthood.
I think you are mixing some things up. There is the law of Moses that was written in a book that had all of the animal sacrifices for sin for breaking what was inside the ark of the Covenant the Ten Commandments- God's perfect law converting our soul written personally by our perfect Savior.

What is being referred to in Hebrews 8 is the Ten Commandments.

The Words of the Covenant, the Ten Commandments

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

So right here God says He would not have made a second covenant if the first covenant had been faultless

Where was the FAULT?

8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


So the fault was with the people because they did not continue in the covenant.

Because God is so patient and longsuffering instead of disregarding humanity, He writes a New Covenant.

What is the New Covenant established on?

Better Promises, not better laws, because you can't make something perfect for converting the soul, more perfect

Hebrews 8: 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

The old covenant was based on the people doing Exo 19:8, the New Covenant has God doing Heb 8:10 He is writing His law write in our hearts, it went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart and through our love to Him, He is the one enabling us to keep His commandments which is a much better promise

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Its why its still a sin to break any of the Ten Commandments in the NC Rom 7:7 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 but instead of bringing an animal sacrifice to a human priest, we can go directly to Jesus when we sin when we repent, which means a change of heart and direction and He is so faithful to forgive us and cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness, but when He heals- He says God and Sin no more. Our salvation us from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,885
1,681
113
So,according to your philosophyGod gave the people his laws but they were not ever able to obey them. Which resulted in physical death for disobeying certain of the laws. So at that death those transgressors either went to Abraham's bossom or Hell. Until many generations later God The Word arrived in the flesh as Yeshua,Jesus,so to redeem a whole generation of different people and give them that new nature so they could obey his laws that he gave the past generation centuries before.

Is that right?
Not quite.

Death came through Adam. Adam did not do what God told him to do. Adam disobeyed the commandment of God, "Don't eat of a certain tree." This was a commandment given by the Father to His son.

From then on, a Savior was needed. But, because God knows the end from the beginning, "the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world". So, it did not surprise God that Adam sinned.

A while later, God blessed Abraham and his seed. God chose Abraham because "He believed God".

Paul tells us that the blessing was to Abraham and the Seed (singular) even though the word for "seed" can be singular or plural. It is like that way in the English language, too. We can plant a field of seed or we can plant a field of seeds. This Seed was Christ.

So, because God promised to bless the Seed of Abraham, who was Christ, God obligated Himself to protect the lineage of Abraham: if Abe's line died the Seed could not appear and God could not keep His promises.

So, and I am skipping a lot here, God leads His people out of Egypt. He brings them to Sinai to make them a nation. You can take the slave out of Egypt, but you must deal with the mindset of slavery in the people.

God sets up a means by which the people could come into His presence. If they do that, again, if they obey God's unwritten voice, Spirit to spirit, just as Abraham received direction from God, they would receive this promise:

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

This is NOT forbearance. He's not saying "If you keep the covenant I am about to give you". The covenant at work at that moment was the same one that attended Abraham: God speaks, you obey".

BUT

The people did not obey God at the mountain. They were to come close to Moses and God while God addressed Moses. Instead "they stood afar off".

So, instead of giving the people the promises stated above He gave them the law and the 10 Commandments. Instead of becoming a nation of priests, only one tribe was set aside for priesthood. This is what it means when it is written "The law was added because of transgressions".

So, because the people were not changed by coming into the presence of God, God had to give them written rules for life: the people would not receive what was spoken so He had to give them what was written. By these rules God set boundaries around the limits of sin. Why? So the people through whom the Seed would come would be preserved!

The goal was always to bring Christ through the line of Abraham (physically and spiritually). The law at Sinai and the 10 Commandments restrained the punishments for sin so that the people could survive.

So, Jesus was born. He was then revealed as the Christ, a many-membered being. All people who come to Him in faith can be included in Him.

"For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..."

In Christ, we then have direct access to God again. The veil of separation is torn in two. We can come into His presence and be changed just as God intended to do with those at Sinai, before the people refused to come into His presence.

All who receive God as their Father receive the Sabbath rest of God that states "man shall rest from his own work". This means that in each moment of our lives we do as our Father is doing. "The son can do only what he sees his Father doing". This is not about robotic obedience, this is about resting in Him for all direction of our lives.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,308
6,639
113
62
Not quite.

Death came through Adam. Adam did not do what God told him to do. Adam disobeyed the commandment of God, "Don't eat of a certain tree." This was a commandment given by the Father to His son.

From then on, a Savior was needed. But, because God knows the end from the beginning, "the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world". So, it did not surprise God that Adam sinned.

A while later, God blessed Abraham and his seed. God chose Abraham because "He believed God".

Paul tells us that the blessing was to Abraham and the Seed (singular) even though the word for "seed" can be singular or plural. It is like that way in the English language, too. We can plant a field of seed or we can plant a field of seeds. This Seed was Christ.

So, because God promised to bless the Seed of Abraham, who was Christ, God obligated Himself to protect the lineage of Abraham: if Abe's line died the Seed could not appear and God could not keep His promises.

So, and I am skipping a lot here, God leads His people out of Egypt. He brings them to Sinai to make them a nation. You can take the slave out of Egypt, but you must deal with the mindset of slavery in the people.

God sets up a means by which the people could come into His presence. If they do that, again, if they obey God's unwritten voice, Spirit to spirit, just as Abraham received direction from God, they would receive this promise:

"Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

This is NOT forbearance. He's not saying "If you keep the covenant I am about to give you". The covenant at work at that moment was the same one that attended Abraham: God speaks, you obey".

BUT

The people did not obey God at the mountain. They were to come close to Moses and God while God addressed Moses. Instead "they stood afar off".

So, instead of giving the people the promises stated above He gave them the law and the 10 Commandments. Instead of becoming a nation of priests, only one tribe was set aside for priesthood. This is what it means when it is written "The law was added because of transgressions".

So, because the people were not changed by coming into the presence of God, God had to give them written rules for life: the people would not receive what was spoken so He had to give them what was written. By these rules God set boundaries around the limits of sin. Why? So the people through whom the Seed would come would be preserved!

The goal was always to bring Christ through the line of Abraham (physically and spiritually). The law at Sinai and the 10 Commandments restrained the punishments for sin so that the people could survive.

So, Jesus was born. He was then revealed as the Christ, a many-membered being. All people who come to Him in faith can be included in Him.

"For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body..."

In Christ, we then have direct access to God again. The veil of separation is torn in two. We can come into His presence and be changed just as God intended to do with those at Sinai, before the people refused to come into His presence.

All who receive God as their Father receive the Sabbath rest of God that states "man shall rest from his own work". This means that in each moment of our lives we do as our Father is doing. "The son can do only what he sees his Father doing". This is not about robotic obedience, this is about resting in Him for all direction of our lives.
Skipping is good exercise. If you are doing alot of it people may talk, but they will probably talk anyway.
 
May 15, 2019
626
219
43
Except Jesus knew he was here to die on the cross. And yet he still said,if you love me keep my commandments. Those he reiterated from the 10 commands.

The 10 commandments are moral laws. They are not void today.

They are to be obeyed because they are included in the new law of Christ—not because they are in the old Jewish law. They are not in a “list” in the New Testament but are incorporated throughout the New Testament. All except for keeping the sabbath day. God did not include that one in The new law of faith brought in by Jesus Christ. Read Hebrews 7:18-19. “There is an ANNULLING. Of the former commandment..” “on the other hand there is the BRINGING IN of a better hope—Jesus has become a surety of a Better covenant.( law) Verse 22.

At the end of chapter 8- next chapter over— he says, “In that He says a New covenant, He has made the first (covenant) OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.” The old Jewish law is not in effect anymore. Not since Jesus died on the cross. There is no longer one law for the Jews and one law for the gentiles. Christ brought in a new law for everyone—Jew and gentile alike one law, one fold. The whole book of Hebrews is teaching how inferior the Old Testament law was and how much better the new law is that was brought in by the death of Christ. This is also taught in the book of Galations, where Paul concludes in Chapter 5:4, if you try to be saved. ( justified) by keeping the Old Testament law of Moses, YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE!
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
701
314
63
youtube.com
They are to be obeyed because they are included in the new law of Christ—not because they are in the old Jewish law. They are not in a “list” in the New Testament but are incorporated throughout the New Testament. All except for keeping the sabbath day. God did not include that one in The new law of faith brought in by Jesus Christ. Read Hebrews 7:18-19. “There is an ANNULLING. Of the former commandment..” “on the other hand there is the BRINGING IN of a better hope—Jesus has become a surety of a Better covenant.( law) Verse 22.

At the end of chapter 8- next chapter over— he says, “In that He says a New covenant, He has made the first (covenant) OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.” The old Jewish law is not in effect anymore. Not since Jesus died on the cross. There is no longer one law for the Jews and one law for the gentiles. Christ brought in a new law for everyone—Jew and gentile alike one law, one fold. The whole book of Hebrews is teaching how inferior the Old Testament law was and how much better the new law is that was brought in by the death of Christ. This is also taught in the book of Galations, where Paul concludes in Chapter 5:4, if you try to be saved. ( justified) by keeping the Old Testament law of Moses, YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE!
The moral law isn't done away.
Unless someone wants to insist we can steal,murder,commit adultery, worship other god's,etc...

And Paul can't contradict himself. He said our Salvation by the grace of God is irrevocable.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,885
1,681
113
And yet he still said,if you love me keep my commandments.
That's not the 10 Commandments.

He went on to say how the commandments will come: by the Spirit

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

This connects us back to the time before the law at Sinai.

and further:

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father..."

Jesus is telling them this because these are characteristics of a covenant they have never lived under.

And later;

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Why would they need the Spirit if they could just follow the written law at Sinai?

What you are reading, from John 13 through 17, is Jesus giving instruction to His disciples for the era that is about to come. This is exactly what His Father did at Sinai with the Jews!

He's not looking back to say "follow the Sinai commandments" He's looking forward saying "The Spirit is coming to give you commandments. Do what He tells you."
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,308
6,639
113
62
That's not the 10 Commandments.

He went on to say how the commandments will come: by the Spirit

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

This connects us back to the time before the law at Sinai.

and further:

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father..."

Jesus is telling them this because these are characteristics of a covenant they have never lived under.

And later;

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Why would they need the Spirit if they could just follow the written law at Sinai?

What you are reading, from John 13 through 17, is Jesus giving instruction to His disciples for the era that is about to come. This is exactly what His Father did at Sinai with the Jews!

He's not looking back to say "follow the Sinai commandments" He's looking forward saying "The Spirit is coming to give you commandments. Do what He tells you."
Legalists take the emphasis off relationship and place the emphasis on behavior. This actually leads to separation rather than communion.
One of the things I have always enjoyed in reading about Abraham is that regardless of his behavior, God is continually gracious to him. Even in failure and unfaithfulness, he received grace upon grace.
 
Dec 13, 2023
1,407
234
63
Ten Commandments in the NC- they obviously didn't go anywhere

1. "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10).
2. "Little children, keep yourselves from idols" (1 John 5:21). "Since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising" (Acts 17:29).
3. "That the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed" (1 Timothy 6:1).
4. "He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.' There remains therefore a rest ["keeping of a sabbath," margin] for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:4, 9, 10).
Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
5. "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19).
6. "You shall not murder" (Romans 13:9).
7. "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18).
8. "You shall not steal" (Romans 13:9).
9. "You shall not bear false witness" (Romans 13:9).
10. "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).

Kept until the end of time for God's faithful Rev 22:14
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
701
314
63
youtube.com
That's not the 10 Commandments.

He went on to say how the commandments will come: by the Spirit

"And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you."

This connects us back to the time before the law at Sinai.

and further:

“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father..."

Jesus is telling them this because these are characteristics of a covenant they have never lived under.

And later;

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Why would they need the Spirit if they could just follow the written law at Sinai?

What you are reading, from John 13 through 17, is Jesus giving instruction to His disciples for the era that is about to come. This is exactly what His Father did at Sinai with the Jews!

He's not looking back to say "follow the Sinai commandments" He's looking forward saying "The Spirit is coming to give you commandments. Do what He tells you."
Jesus reiterated the 9 commands. He didn't repeat the Sabbath because that practice pre existed Saini because the Sabbath wasn't an ordinance it was God's gift to humanity.

The helper can't repeal moral laws God wrote on our hearts. The helper reiterates Gods laws from his inner dwelling within the believer. He guides us within the moral and spiritual framework God set in our heart.
 

MeowFlower

Well-known member
Aug 25, 2024
701
314
63
youtube.com
They are to be obeyed because they are included in the new law of Christ—not because they are in the old Jewish law. They are not in a “list” in the New Testament but are incorporated throughout the New Testament. All except for keeping the sabbath day. God did not include that one in The new law of faith brought in by Jesus Christ. Read Hebrews 7:18-19. “There is an ANNULLING. Of the former commandment..” “on the other hand there is the BRINGING IN of a better hope—Jesus has become a surety of a Better covenant.( law) Verse 22.

At the end of chapter 8- next chapter over— he says, “In that He says a New covenant, He has made the first (covenant) OBSOLETE. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY.” The old Jewish law is not in effect anymore. Not since Jesus died on the cross. There is no longer one law for the Jews and one law for the gentiles. Christ brought in a new law for everyone—Jew and gentile alike one law, one fold. The whole book of Hebrews is teaching how inferior the Old Testament law was and how much better the new law is that was brought in by the death of Christ. This is also taught in the book of Galations, where Paul concludes in Chapter 5:4, if you try to be saved. ( justified) by keeping the Old Testament law of Moses, YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE!
Paul didn't ever say the ten commands are done away.
1Corinthians 6:9–10
 
Nov 1, 2024
766
202
43
True,we cannot sin to lose our eternal irrevocable Salvation. However,this doesn't mean we should violate the laws of God that are written in our hearts.
The 4th commandment written on my heart says to cease from works of the flesh and trust and know that God is sanctifying me in his son. So obedience to that commandment is completely independent from the elements of this world
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
496
156
43
Speculation.

Besides, He's not a plural "angels" or "saints".
.
No speculation at all.
All of man’s interactions with God have been through Jesus.


Jhn 1: 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Jesus created the heaven and the earth
[Gen 1:1 KJV] 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Since it is clearly stated that all things were made by him, can we conclude that Jesus created the seven day week when he created the Sabbath, blessed it and hollowed it? The Sabbath is a holy day and it comes around once a week by design.

[Exo 20:11 KJV] 11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now to Moses:
[Exo 24:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

This is an encounter with Jesus.
Exo 24:15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. 16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
Exo 24:18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.
[Exo 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
[Exo 32:15-16 KJV] 15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony [were] in his hand: the tables [were] written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other [were] they written. 16 And the tables [were] the work of God, and the writing [was] the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Then Jesus repeated the delivery of the 10 commandment Moses
[Exo 34:1 KJV] 1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon [these] tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

[Exo 25:21 KJV] 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
[Deu 10:2, 5 KJV] 2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. ... 5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.