the Sabbath

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TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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That's the day when you utter what Paul said.

Romans 7:24-25
Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

That's the day when there is no condemnation.

Romans 8:8
Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus.
I agree that when we realize how helpless we are the more realize that we need Jesus.

Paul talks about two lives we can live...

The flesh and the spirit.

Walking in the Spirit or walking after the flesh.

Paul does not teach that we have no choice. We can choose which path we are going to walk on.

Thanks for Jesus that can save us and did everything to save us. But we have a choice. He does not force us to be saved.

Rom 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Notice the choice we have... to walk after the Spirit or flesh.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

I'm not teaching works as a way to be saved, I'm teaching that works of the Spirit, works of obedience and works of righteousness are a result of Jesus in us.

Jesus works in us, no glory to us.

Keeping the moral is a result of Jesus living in us.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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The emphasis is on faith in Jesus Christ as the means of salvation, and Gentiles are not required to observe the ceremonial and ritual aspects of the Mosaic Law.
I agree.

I believe the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer a point of separation because we are all one in Christ.

Cerimonial and ritual laws that were shadows are not needed now that we have Christ

The Sabbath was not a cerimonial law
It was not a shadow law.

It was part of the 10 commandments.
 
Dec 13, 2023
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You have been corrected by ChatGPT.

AI read the text and correctly replied. Obviously, ChatGPT does not have a theological bias.

You need to read the text yourself and forget what you have been taught.
You can rely on AI- which is programmed by man. My faith is in God's Word and living by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God, like Jesus told us to. Mat 4:4
 
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Can you not see that we essentially agree?
Do you think we need to keep God's commandments that include the Ten written by His own finger? You seem to be making a case against them, so I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing, but I am happy to be corrected!
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Do you think we need to keep God's commandments that include the Ten written by His own finger? You seem to be making a case against them, so I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing, but I am happy to be corrected!
I think you’re hung up on “not sinning.” All sins were paid for. There is more to the Christian life than acting good. The Law is God’s standard, and we all fall short. Keep trying for sinless perfection if you like.
 
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I think you’re hung up on “not sinning.” All sins were paid for. There is more to the Christian life than acting good. The Law is God’s standard, and we all fall short. Keep trying for sinless perfection if you like.
So we can sin freely and be saved? I have yet to find the verse that unrepentant sin is given grace. Scripture says people who do this won’t prosper Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30 Mat 7:21-23 our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21

If all sin is forgiven and we don’t have to do anything then why are we separated from God. If there is no more sin, then there is no law because without law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15. If there was no law there would be no condemnation for breaking God’s law which is death and that means everyone is immortal. This is back to the very first lie in the garden that we can disobey God and live when God said the opposite. Gen 2:17. This same lie has been deceiving people since the beginning and is still working.


Guess we are back where we started.
 

Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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I think we simply define Grace differently. Grace + nothing = salvation. It is a gift to those who simply accept it.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I agree.

I believe the distinction between Jew and Gentile is no longer a point of separation because we are all one in Christ.

Cerimonial and ritual laws that were shadows are not needed now that we have Christ

The Sabbath was not a cerimonial law
It was not a shadow law.

It was part of the 10 commandments.
The Sabbath is not a moral law.

The Sabbath is a rest day.

Christian are asked to love others, above all.

Loving others has nothing to do with a day of the week.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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So we can sin freely and be saved? I have yet to find the verse that unrepentant sin is given grace. Scripture says people who do this won’t prosper Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30 Mat 7:21-23 our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21

If all sin is forgiven and we don’t have to do anything then why are we separated from God. If there is no more sin, then there is no law because without law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15. If there was no law there would be no condemnation for breaking God’s law which is death and that means everyone is immortal. This is back to the very first lie in the garden that we can disobey God and live when God said the opposite. Gen 2:17. This same lie has been deceiving people since the beginning and is still working.
Guess we are back where we started.
I think you missed the point completely.

Death was introduced to humanity through Adam and Eve.

Romans 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

You also forgot to mention the deeds of the flesh.

I have to keep reminding you about the deeds of the flesh.

Galatians 5:18-21
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
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Inside the ark, under the mercy seat.
In the heart.
I think it’s still there:
[Rev 11:19 KJV] 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
 

Inquisitor

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Mar 17, 2022
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Righteousness is a component of God’s love. Everything emanates from Him. Our acceptance or rejection of His gifts affect our position. Here is something I borrowed from a friend. See if it makes sense to you:

God's Love is not like human love; human love you can lose. God's Love you cannot lose. God loves the people in hell, and even Satan, just as much as He loves Christ, the Holy Spirit, and Himself. For Absolute Love never varies based on the object. Only Justice varies with the object, since we are all different, and Justice must insure Consistent, Competent FAIRNESS. A thing is only fair if matched to the justice requirements and needs of the object. So only God can truly be fair, since only God can know enough to BE Fair. Omniscience insures He knows Everything, so no incompetence is possible.

Almost every time you see the word "love" in the Bible, it's mistranslated. Should read "Divine Love", not merely Love. God's Love is Absolute, so is not emotional. Not changeable. Love loves to be competent, and hence always operates within JUSTICE. Folks are extremely uncomfortable with the idea that God has to execute Justice. They don't understand that His Love means absolutely nothing, if He can't be Perfectly Righteous. What seems like cold-Judge thinking is in fact the Absoluteness of Love. Your flaws don't dent God's Love. Your attractive qualities don't influence His Love for you either. So you CANNOT EVER LOSE His Love. But if you reject His Love, Justice requires you receive different judicial treatment. But the Love is still there. God's Head Sovereign Integrity IS His Love. Virtue is the backbone of Love, and Righteousness/Justice is the attitude of Virtue, and Love loves Virtue because Virtue is Competent. God is all ONE, here: His Attributes aren't divided. So Justice is Love, too. Absolutely.
Very good post.

I agree, God's love towards us is unconditional, we do not deserve His love.

God is love, and as you correctly translated, 'divine love', is far beyond human love.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
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I think it’s still there:
[Rev 11:19 KJV] 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Romans 5:5
And hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

His law (unconditional love) was written into our hearts.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Do you follow the law of Christ or the law of Mt Sinai?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Do you follow the law of Christ or the law of Mt Sinai?
The law of Christ
The Law of Love
The moral law
And the 10 commandments all point to the same loving God. They all glorify God's character, they are all from God.

All based on the love of God.
When I follow the law of love I am following the 10 commandments and when I follow the example of Jesus and His life I follow the 10 commandments.

Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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I think we simply define Grace differently. Grace + nothing = salvation. It is a gift to those who simply accept it.
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,457
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The Sabbath is not a moral law.

The Sabbath is a rest day.

Christian are asked to love others, above all.

Loving others has nothing to do with a day of the week.
Christians are asked to Love God above all.
If you need to choose between God and man we must choose God first.

Mar 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

The sabbath is a moral law because God said to remember it, and if we disobey God we are sining.

1Jn 3:4-6
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Exactly.
I don't think they understand how faith and works go hand in hand. The way James states faith without works is dead.

Believing in grace or faith in God's grace results in works.

True faith in God's grace will result in a new heart and repentance and works and fruits of the Spirit.

Our works do not save us they reflect the Spirit that is in us.

I can't love my saviour and disobey Him. It isn't real love. I can't accept God's grace and continue to sin? The first commandment is to love God with all your heart.

True Faith in God's grace and words are tried together. You can't seperate them.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
And without forgiveness of those sins, we are all doomed. No one here is condoning any sin.
 

rrcn

Active member
Oct 15, 2023
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Now that we have discussed the Sabbath and in the context of that discussion, maybe it would be a good idea to look into how Sunday became a substitute day of worship and reveal who is behind the attempt to change God’s law (which is still in the ark in the most holy of the heavenly sanctuary,) to the pagan day of sun worship.
 
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And without forgiveness of those sins, we are all doomed.
Agreed. Which requires repentance to Jesus 1 John 1:9 which means a change of heart and a change of direction. When Jesus healed He said go and sin no more. The law is there just to show us what sin is Romans 7:7 Romans 3:20 so we depend on His righteousness Psa 119:172 not our own and it reveals our condition and our need for Jesus for forgiveness, grace and sanctification. When we cover our sins or no longer try to overcome, that's where it gets dangerous. Pro 28:13 Heb 10:26-30