The Scriptures on - Hell (D2)

[Karraster]

Hi, thestudent. Very good OP, thanks for taking time to post it. The further in time we get from the original, the inspired Word, the more confusion creeps in. Thanks to our Creator, with Him all things are possible. It's still possible for us to understand, by His grace that teaches us. Anytime scriptures seem to be opposing itself, it's a clue that we just do not understand, maybe have an incorrect translation. [h=1]Revelation 20:14 (KJV)[/h]14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. <this verse alone...should alert the reader.

 

[theStudent]

Hi, thestudent. Very good OP, thanks for taking time to post it. The further in time we get from the original, the inspired Word, the more confusion creeps in. Thanks to our Creator, with Him all things are possible. It's still possible for us to understand, by His grace that teaches us. Anytime scriptures seem to be opposing itself, it's a clue that we just do not understand, maybe have an incorrect translation. Revelation 20:14 (KJV)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. <this verse alone...should alert the reader.

Thanks
I couldn't say it any better than that.

 

[Jruiz]

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If ANYONE worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, TOO, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be TORMENTED with BURNING SULFUR in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the SMOKE of THEIR TORMENT will rise FOR EVER AND EVER. There will be NO REST DAY OR NIGHT for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. You seem to keep leaving these verses out...can you explain how this fits your doctrine?

 

[theStudent]

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If ANYONE worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, TOO, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be TORMENTED with BURNING SULFUR in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the SMOKE of THEIR TORMENT will rise FOR EVER AND EVER. There will be NO REST DAY OR NIGHT for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus. You seem to keep leaving these verses out...can you explain how this fits your doctrine?

...and where does the scriptures say they will be tormented?
Is it the lake of fire?
Is that not in the post by Karraster, above your?
So what did the angel of the Lord say the lake of fire means?

 

[Jruiz]

The second death means eternal separation from God. It doesn't have to mean a spiritual death to where we cease to exist...and Yes I'm talking about the lake of fire..

 

[theStudent]

The second death means eternal separation from God. It doesn't have to mean a spiritual death to where we cease to exist...and Yes I'm talking about the lake of fire..

Could you show me this verse, please.
I only see these words, the angel said.
Rev. 20:14 And Hades and death were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Jruiz]

I'm talking about Revelation 14:9-12....and as far as hades and death being cast in the fire (Revelation 20:14) this verse can't mean unbelievers cease to exists (annihilation ) if verse 14:9-12 is true...Jesus spoke about this in Mathew 25:41...“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Show me verse that says when we die spiritually,we cease to exist?

 

[RobbyEarl]

I'm talking about Revelation 14:9-12....and as far as hades and death being cast in the fire (Revelation 20:14) this verse can't mean unbelievers cease to exists (annihilation ) if verse 14:9-12 is true...Jesus spoke about this in Mathew 25:41...“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Show me verse that says when we die spiritually,we cease to exist?

I can't, there is no verse, we will live forever some where.

 

[theStudent]

I'm talking about Revelation 14:9-12....and as far as hades and death being cast in the fire (Revelation 20:14) this verse can't mean unbelievers cease to exists (annihilation ) if verse 14:9-12 is true...Jesus spoke about this in Mathew 25:41...“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Show me verse that says when we die spiritually,we cease to exist?

This is you quote isn't it Jruiz?

The second death means eternal separation from God. It doesn't have to mean a spiritual death to where we cease to exist...and Yes I'm talking about the lake of fire..

All I am saying to you is that the angel told John, the lake of fire means, or represents the second death.
Death is death. Second is second.
Nobody can or should add to what the angel said, saying that the second death means...
It final, isn't it?
I don't know if you have children, but if one of your children asks, 'Mom, what does "Can it!" mean, and you say, "It means, keep quiet, or shut up!"
The child doesn't turn around and ask what "shut up!" means. There's no need for you to add anything else.
Am I right?

 

[DP]

Regardless whether one thinks what Jesus revealed in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man being a parable, or a real story, the objects He described there should be understood to be real. And the objects were about a place of separation between the wicked dead on one side of a great gulf fixed and the righteous dead on the other side, with the ability to see each other but not cross the gulf. In Rev.22:14-15, which is about Christ's future thousand years reign, we are shown a similar pattern of division between the wicked and righteous, as also with Jesus speaking of separation between His sheep and the goats in Matt.25. So there's no reason to think that place He described in Luke 16 in the heavenly is not real.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Regardless whether one thinks what Jesus revealed in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man being a parable, or a real story, the objects He described there should be understood to be real. And the objects were about a place of separation between the wicked dead on one side of a great gulf fixed and the righteous dead on the other side, with the ability to see each other but not cross the gulf. In Rev.22:14-15, which is about Christ's future thousand years reign, we are shown a similar pattern of division between the wicked and righteous, as also with Jesus speaking of separation between His sheep and the goats in Matt.25. So there's no reason to think that place He described in Luke 16 in the heavenly is not real.

This what gets me about ppl and parables, did Jesus lie? no one will answer me.

 

[theStudent]

Regardless whether one thinks what Jesus revealed in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man being a parable, or a real story, the objects He described there should be understood to be real. And the objects were about a place of separation between the wicked dead on one side of a great gulf fixed and the righteous dead on the other side, with the ability to see each other but not cross the gulf. In Rev.22:14-15, which is about Christ's future thousand years reign, we are shown a similar pattern of division between the wicked and righteous, as also with Jesus speaking of separation between His sheep and the goats in Matt.25. So there's no reason to think that place He described in Luke 16 in the heavenly is not real.

....Again?
When will it end?

 

[theStudent]

This what gets me about ppl and parables, did Jesus lie? no one will answer me.

Okay
I will answer you, if you will answer me.
Where is King David right now?
Is he in heaven, paradise, where?

 

[RobbyEarl]

Okay
I will answer you, if you will answer me.
Where is King David right now?
Is he in heaven, paradise, where?

He is in Heaven and not Paradise as Jesus emptied paradise before He arose.

 

[DP]

Paradise is... in the heavenly dimension.

 

[Willie-T]

This what gets me about ppl and parables, did Jesus lie? no one will answer me.

I can forward you some interesting study material on this. But what is fascinating is that neither character in this parable is without fault, and likewise, neither can be said to be a low-life sinner.

 

[AboundingGrace]

He is in Heaven and not Paradise as Jesus emptied paradise before He arose.

It may be considered pure conjecture, but, it's my thought that Paradise has become a part of heaven, when Jesus led captivity captive when he ascended to heaven, he took all of the righteous dead and risen again with him, the Paradise of upper Sheol or Abraham's bosom went with them also.. it's also my thought that Paradise is the place formerly called the Garden of Eden.

 

[RobbyEarl]

It may be considered pure conjecture, but, it's my thought that Paradise has become a part of heaven, when Jesus led captivity captive when he ascended to heaven, he took all of the righteous dead and risen again with him, the Paradise of upper Sheol or Abraham's bosom went with them also.. it's also my thought that Paradise is the place formerly called the Garden of Eden.

I was about to like you until that last sentence. My sister Angels were placed at the entrance of the garden to keep men out. Paradise was a part of hell but they could not be tormented. Satan had the legal right to hold them there until Jesus died on the cross.

 

[theStudent]

He is in Heaven and not Paradise as Jesus emptied paradise before He arose.

Acts 2:
34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand
35 until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Who's lying - you or Peter?

 

[theStudent]

Paradise is... in the heavenly dimension.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Who's the liar?
Someone is...