The Second Coming of Christ is for JUDGMENT

[TheDivineWatermark]

I am amazed how the Thessalonians asked Paul what happens to the DEAD who are Believers?
[...]
And from Paul explaining to the Thessalonians how they will be with their DEAD ONES again...somehow and ignorantly...turned into a False Doctrine of Pre-Trib Rapture.
It's as if no one is reading verses 13-15, but jumping all the way to verses 16-17 in order to take Paul's words out of context.

Paul refers to the event we call "rapture" something like TEN TIMES in these two epistles (Thessalonians), not MERELY 1Th4:17 alone.

The SEQUENCE is much more evident in 2 Thessalonians, but it agrees with the sequence that 1Th4-5 also showed (and which other passages outside these two epistles also align, in showing).

It is very commonly misunderstood, for people to be saying Paul ONLY referred to it in ONE VERSE (1Th4:17 "harpazo" ['caught up'] there). It's simply not the case. But don't feel badly, you're not alone in thinking this. = )

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok then, who are the nations, at the end of the thousand years, that are deceived by Satan and are gathered upon the breath of the earth and surround Jerusalem for battle?

Once again, no place is 1,000 literal years upon earth seen.

1,000 years represents time in the Lord's spiritual realm, not literal.

The 1,000 non literal years is taking place now in the spiritual realm, the nations seen are literal world nations upon this earth, and will be gathered at the end of the future tribulation.

 

[John146]

Once again, no place is 1,000 literal years upon earth seen.

1,000 years represents time in the Lord's spiritual realm, not literal.

The 1,000 non literal years is taking place now in the spiritual realm, the nations seen are literal world nations upon this earth, and will be gathered at the end of the future tribulation.

Satan is said to be bound in the pit during this thousand years. According to you, Satan bound right now. According to Paul, Satan is the god of this world. He is the ruler of the darkness of this world. What gives?

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan is said to be bound in the pit during this thousand years. According to you, Satan bound right now. According to Paul, Satan is the god of this world. He is the ruler of the darkness of this world. What gives?

Satan is currently bound from "One Specific Purpose"?

"DECEIVING THE NATIONS TO BATTLE"

Revelation 20:8 below clearly shows Satan loosed towards the end of the tribulation to gather the nations by deception.

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[biker]

Paul refers to the event we call "rapture" something like TEN TIMES in these two epistles (Thessalonians), not MERELY 1Th4:17 alone.

The SEQUENCE is much more evident in 2 Thessalonians, but it agrees with the sequence that 1Th4-5 also showed (and which other passages outside these two epistles also align, in showing).

It is very commonly misunderstood, for people to be saying Paul ONLY referred to it in ONE VERSE (1Th4:17 "harpazo" ['caught up'] there). It's simply not the case. But don't feel badly, you're not alone in thinking this. = )

But it only means how God is going to gather us, it does not mean a plan to escape something horrible.
I love how we see the very CHOSEN of Christ Himself (Disciples) had to endure torture and for all but one a horrendous death. But somehow, those today believe they get a free escape card over a false doctrine.

Who are WE compared to the Apostles who were brutally beaten, tortured, murdered?

Some actually believe we are more special and will never be made to suffer something like the Tribulation.

The Bible nowhere tells us this. Why would we believe such garbage? Because the preacher said so? Hahahahahahahahaha

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Satan is currently bound from "One Specific Purpose"?
"DECEIVING THE NATIONS TO BATTLE"
Revelation 20:8 below clearly shows Satan loosed towards the end of the tribulation to gather the nations by deception.

But when you study out the sequence of events, what comes BEFORE Rev20:3 ("And cast him [/Satan] into the bottomless pit, and shut him up...") is:

--Revelation 12:9,12 "...he was cast out unto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. [...] Woe... for the devil is come down unto you, HAVING GREAT WRATH, because he knoweth that he hath but A SHORT TIME" (with 1260 days remaining until Christ's Second Coming to the earth). See also 20:4b (of the same "time period" that these ppl "had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands..." meaning, DURING that specific "time period" [of the whole], and re: Satan's "HAVING GREAT WRATH" during the "[he hath but] A SHORT TIME")

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

But it only means how God is going to gather us, it does not mean a plan to escape something horrible.

The sequence Paul discloses is that our Rapture takes place BEFORE "the DOTL" can be present to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" and ALL he will DO over the course of SOME TIME (BP #1 and following!), and involving JUDGMENTS... (etc)

I love how we see the very CHOSEN of Christ Himself (Disciples) had to endure torture and for all but one a horrendous death. But somehow, those today believe they get a free escape card over a false doctrine.
Who are WE compared to the Apostles who were brutally beaten, tortured, murdered?

"The Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" has experienced "tribulationS" and "persecutions" ever since its existence on the earth, from the first century (2Th1:4; Eph1:20-23), we are NOT *awaiting* a future 7-yr period in order to experience it ! (tho there WILL be a 7-yr trib... that is not its PURPOSE).

Some actually believe we are more special and will never be made to suffer something like the Tribulation.

HOGWASH.

Read my entry above this one, just above.

The Bible nowhere tells us this. Why would we believe such garbage? Because the preacher said so? Hahahahahahahahaha

No. It's by actually grasping [BIBLICALLY] what "the DOTL" is, WHEN it commences, WHO it involves, the SEQUENCE of events IN RELATION TO it, its DURATION, its LOCATION, etc etc... rather than falling for the FALSE "definition" that, say, the "Amill-teachings" attaches to [the phrase] "the DOTL"... and so many do "fall for it"



[I'm tending to think you are simply playing "devil's advocate" coz it's so... plastic-sounding ]

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan is said to be bound in the pit during this thousand years. According to you, Satan bound right now. According to Paul, Satan is the god of this world. He is the ruler of the darkness of this world. What gives?

Nothing in Revelation 20:3 states all evil is bound, "Nothing"

Its your false interpretation and suggestion that all evil is bound.

"Deceive The Nations" is stated in Rev 20:3, and Rev 20:7-8 interprets the very words "Deceive The Nations" God's word clearly interprets itself.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some actually believe we are more special and will never be made to suffer something like the Tribulation.

Since God says that believers are "not appointed unto wrath" why don't you just believe Him? Do you even know the purpose of the Tribulation?

 

[Truth7t7]

Since God says that believers are "not appointed unto wrath" why don't you just believe Him? Do you even know the purpose of the Tribulation?

Yes the plagues are going to be brought upon "The Beast" and His kingdom followers

"The Church On Earth Is Protected"

The future Great Tribulation will be a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, as the "Two Witnesses" seen in Rev 11:1-15 bring plagues upon the world in representation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[John146]

Nothing in Revelation 20:3 states all evil is bound, "Nothing"

Its your false interpretation and suggestion that all evil is bound.

"Deceive The Nations" is stated in Rev 20:3, and Rev 20:7-8 interprets the very words "Deceive The Nations" God's word clearly interprets itself.

It clearly states that Satan is bound in chains in the pit. That’s not some metaphor. Take it literally. If Satan is bound in the pit, he cannot be the god of this world. Why would Paul, through the Holy Spirit, tell us to put on the armour of God to stand against the wiles of the devil if the devil is bound in chains in the pit?

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 

[Kolistus]

There isn't a literal kingdom on earth, with mortal humans seen in Revelation 20:1-6?

Millennialism is just another false teaching of man.

What is Revelation 20:1-6 about then?

 

[luigi]

Just as the First Coming of Christ was for salvation, the Second Coming of Christ is for judgment and damnation. Just as Christ came in humility and humiliation at His First Advent, He will come WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY at His Second Advent (Mt 24:30).

There are many Christians who have failed to see this truth. Indeed there is much confusion about the Second Coming, with some even imagining that there is no difference between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming. Some even think that the Second Coming equals the end of the world. Some do not even believe that there will be a battle of Armageddon. Some do not believe that God will gather all Jews from around the world at that time so that they are confronted by their true Messiah in Israel, who will stand on the Mount of Olives and split it in two. Some do not believe that after His Second Coming, Christ will literally establish His literal reign on earth for one thousand years. And the list goes on. Utter confusion when there should be perfect clarity.

It is truly amazing to think that Enoch – the seventh from Adam (who lived on earth around 3400 BC) – prophesied about the Second Coming of Christ to execute judgment: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. (Jude 1:14, 15)

We see the Second Coming of Christ in Revelation 19:11-21. This is a literal, real, visible, tangible Second Coming with Christ returning to earth with all His saints and angels (called “clouds” because of their white and shining appearance): Behold, He cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)

This verse tells us that (1) every person on earth will see the majestic Second Coming of Christ, and (2) every person – the whole unbelieving and ungodly world – will weep and wail and mourn because Christ is coming to judge them in His wrath.

This is further detailed in 2 Thessalonians 1: 6-10 and Revelation 6:15-17: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power; When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day...

...And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

In view of the certainty of the Second Coming of Christ, God has given a warning to every person on earth to repent. Indeed He has commanded ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent (Acts 17:30,31): And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him [Christ] from the dead.

I agree that the next time the Lord appears is for judgment. It is also for the rewarding of the prophets, and saints, and them that fear the name of the Lord; all of which comes at the end of the beasts forty two month reign.

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[biker]

Since God says that believers are "not appointed unto wrath" why don't you just believe Him? Do you even know the purpose of the Tribulation?

I do BELIEVE that we are not appointed to ETERNAL DAMNATION, which is the WRATH of God!

 

[Truth7t7]

It clearly states that Satan is bound in chains in the pit. That’s not some metaphor. Take it literally. If Satan is bound in the pit, he cannot be the god of this world. Why would Paul, through the Holy Spirit, tell us to put on the armour of God to stand against the wiles of the devil if the devil is bound in chains in the pit?

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Satan isn't bound literally, he's a spiritual being.

Did God contract with Ace Hardware, Home Depot, or Lowes for the chains?

As clearly shown, Satan is bound "Currently" in the spiritual realm from deceiving the nations to battle, nothing in (Revelation 20:3-8 ) teaches he's bound from all evil, nothing.

Revelation 16:14 below shows Satan is loosed after the non-literal thousand years, after the 6th vial is poured out, to go out and deceive the nations to the final battle.

Revelation 16:12-14KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

 

[John146]

Satan isn't bound literally, he's a spiritual being.

Did God contract with Ace Hardware, Home Depot, or Lowes for the chains?

As clearly shown, Satan is bound "Currently" from deceiving the nations to battle, nothing in (Revelation 20:3-8 ) teaches he's bound from all evil, nothing.

Revelation 16:14 below shows Satan is loosed after the non-literal thousand years when the 6th vial is poured out, to go out and deceive the nations to the final battle.

Revelation 16:12-14KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Lol, and the pit is not literal either. You prob don’t believe in a literal hell. When you start spiritualizing the Bible, you can make it say anything you want. Take it literal. The chains are from God. Satan will literally be bound in the literal pit for a thousand literal years.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

But it only means how God is going to gather us, it does not mean a plan to escape something horrible.
I love how we see the very CHOSEN of Christ Himself (Disciples) had to endure torture and for all but one a horrendous death. But somehow, those today believe they get a free escape card over a false doctrine.

Who are WE compared to the Apostles who were brutally beaten, tortured, murdered?

Some actually believe we are more special and will never be made to suffer something like the Tribulation.

The Bible nowhere tells us this. Why would we believe such garbage? Because the preacher said so? Hahahahahahahahaha

A genocide of Christians is taking place right now in Islamic nations across the Middle East and Africa.
Thousands of Christians are being beheaded, blown up, shot, stabbed, tortured, and imprisoned.
Millions have been tortured and killed in communist gulags. Soviet Russia, Communist China, Cambodia, North Korea. Etc.
The ancient heart of the Middle Eastern churches have been all but wiped out.
The annihilation of the churches named in Revelation 2 & 3 has come to pass.

But some Christians on the periphery of Biblical prophecy cannot accept the idea of a refining process.
They believe themselves to be exempt.

We are told to be prepared. We should be.
We may have to minister under difficult conditions to younger Christians in a crisis of faith because they were never taught endurance as preached by Jeremiah, Daniel, Jesus, Paul, Peter & John.

Because pre-tribulation rapturists convinced them the love of Christ meant a sure escape of the persecution of antichrist.
Not to be questioned.

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol, and the pit is not literal either. You prob don’t believe in a literal hell. When you start spiritualizing the Bible, you can make it say anything you want. Take it literal. The chains are from God. Satan will literally be bound in the literal pit for a thousand literal years.

Your 100% wrong

Satan is a spiritual being, in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm of no time.

There is no literal 1,000 years in the Lord's spiritual, one day is a thousand years.

Satan isn't bound by literal chains of steel, he's bound by Gods words and the 6th vial in Revelation 16:12

Yes there is a current place of torment in the spiritual called "Hell" and yes there will be the eternal "Lake of Fire" in torment.

There will be no 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, just another false teaching of man.

 

[Runningman]

So, what, are we just moving the post-trib pre-trib debate to a different thread? Lol. This is the second one within a week that I've seen.

OP, if you keep on posting false doctrines you're going to get called out on it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

But some Christians on the periphery of Biblical prophecy cannot accept the idea of a refining process.
They believe themselves to be exempt.

That's just odd.

Because I just got done saying that the Church which is His body has experienced this ALL THROUGHOUT it existence on the earth, since the first century. We are not awaiting a future 7-yr period to experience it!

There is a future 7-yr period, but it is not slated for *that* purpose. It has another purpose. (We, the Church which is His body, will not be here on the earth for those 7 yrs. But again, we are not awaiting those 7-yrs in order to experience "tribulations and persecutions" and refining... that has taken place all throughout the Church-which-is-His-body's existence on the earth, since the first century, 2Th1:4 is just one example of that, where Paul is acknowledging their PRESENT and ONGOING experience of such... but also discloses the sequence of events pertaining to "the WRATH COMING" which refers, per context, to the wrath coming onto the earth at a certain point in time [yet future], having to do with "an eschatalogical 'salvation' which is the CONTEXT of Paul's Thessalonians epistles [addresses to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"].)