The Security Of The Believer

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Jun 20, 2022
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Abraham believed God and God accounted to him as rightiousness.

People were not saved because of animal sacrifice. Many gave sacrifice and never actually believed in God. Namely the high priest who entered the most holy place while Jesus hung on the cross.

You do not provide proofs my friend. You give me your opinions.

Don't attack people because they trust God. They trust His work. they trust his promises.

when you attack them you attack God.
I never said they were Saved because of animal sacrifice.

YOU said God only judged the Nation and I showed how God also judged the individual.

How come you can NEVER remember what YOU POST?

The majority of this discussion is because YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE AND FACTUAL LIKE REPENTANCE, INDIVIDUAL SIN, JEWS WOULD NOT KILL JESUS IF THEY KNEW HE WAS GOD and etc... and me showing you Scripture that you are wrong.

But then it's like you completely forgot about what you do and act like you never did anything wrong and needed to be corrected so you come at me with something I NEVER SAID like earning Salvation.

You are a Habitual LIAR!!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I believe everyone who repents God grants sorrow..

Peter was saved. Judas was not.

Thats why peter had Godly sorrow. And Judas had human sorrow
Why does Judas need help with a human sorrow...he's already human?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I never said they were Saved because of animal sacrifice.

YOU said God only judged the Nation and I showed how God also judged the individual.

How come you can NEVER remember what YOU POST?
how come I can't remember. Again, You need to look inside.

That's what Happens when you do not pay attention to the conversation.

You said this

I attached a file giving several Old Testament Verses. They all say TURN AWAY FROM SIN AND RETURN BACK TO GOD.

Pretty much same definition in the New Testament as well.
This was a command to THE NATION. Not to induviduals..

The majority of this discussion is because YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE NOT TRUE AND FACTUAL LIKE REPENTANCE, INDIVIDUAL SIN, JEWS WOULD NOT KILL JESUS IF THEY KNEW HE WAS GOD and etc... and me showing you Scripture that you are wrong.
Why are you so angry?

I am just posting what the word says, not trying to make the word fit my belief system.

But then it's like you completely forgot about what you do and act like you never did anything wrong and needed to be corrected so you come at me with something I NEVER SAID like earning Salvation.

You are a Habitual LIAR!!
And your about to be reported.

You people get so mad when people do not agree with you. and you resort to name calling ans lies..

Keep it up!
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Why does Judas need help with a human sorrow...he's already human?
He does not.. nor did I say he did.

But he did walk with jesus for a few years. Had every opportunity to have Godly sorrow. But through unbelief, never responded to Gods calling.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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He does not.. nor did I say he did.

But he did walk with jesus for a few years. Had every opportunity to have Godly sorrow. But through unbelief, never responded to Gods calling.
Because you wrote that you believe that everyone who repents God grants sorrow. Judas obviously changed his mind. God did not grant him sorrow.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Because you wrote that you believe that everyone who repents God grants sorrow. Judas obviously changed his mind. God did not grant him sorrow.
I believe it is very possible, and most likely, that Judas sorrow's focus was on the "I" in his statement, "I have...an innocent man" rather than the godly sorrow of what he'd done relative to the 'innocent man'.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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I believe it is very possible, and most likely, that Judas sorrow's focus was on the "I" in his statement, "I have...an innocent man" rather than the godly sorrow of what he'd done relative to the 'innocent man'.
I don't disagree. But I believe apart from God granting a Godly sorrow, that is all he was capable of doing.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Because you wrote that you believe that everyone who repents God grants sorrow. Judas obviously changed his mind. God did not grant him sorrow.
Judas did not have godly sorrow. I thought we had agreed with this
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I don't disagree. But I believe apart from God granting a Godly sorrow, that is all he was capable of doing.
that's the nature of earthly sorrow, it's limited by the earthly mindset, Judas did not see Jesus as more than an 'innocent man' which he himself was probably striving to maintain, as such do by justifying theft or some other sin that would render them faulty. Judas realized he 'made a mistake' and fell short of perfection and so, thinking he would make amendments for his failing, hanged himself, forgetting all he'd been shown that Jesus was so much more than 'an innocent man,' which he might've realized if he actually did change his mind to actually be more heavenly minded.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Judas did not have godly sorrow. I thought we had agreed with this
I do agree. But he clearly had a change of mind. According to you, repentance is a change of mind. In addition, you said you believe God gives sorrow to all who repent...post #296.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I do agree. But he clearly had a change of mind. According to you, repentance is a change of mind. In addition, you said you believe God gives sorrow to all who repent...post #296.
I don't believe he changed his mind, metanoia mean 'beyond thinking' and Judas's mind never went beyond earthly thoughts.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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We can fall from grace, we will not lose our eternal salvation .... but we may lose all our temporal blessings.

God has pledged to save us and He will ... even if He has to kill us.

Ha ha! What a fresh piping hot load of stinky horse hockey that is!

This is the same horse hockey Gnarly Charlie Stanley was hawkin!


In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)


In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges


Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?




You do

every time you say salvation can be lost..

Obviously in your view... Jesus lied in John 15 and you believe being obedient to the Lord is "earning" our salvation not knowing it's the Holy Ghost within empowering those who actually understand God's Word to turn away from walking after the flesh and be led by the Holy Ghost.

Sadly, the OSAS peoples are not led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ... they are led by a different jesus and preach a different gospel... one that only includes a handful of happy verses and rejects the rest of God's Word.

Those who actually understand God's Word know and understand that God's Word teaches we are called to walk in good works and Phil 4:13 makes that possible as we do this thru Christ and not earning anything in our own strength. Since the OSAS peoples aren't being led by the true Holy Spirit, they are blinded to the full gospel of Christ.

It's really sad to see the scripture twisting, the mind games, the gaslighting, the rejection of the rest of God's Word that the OSAS peoples flail around in their attempts to suck others in to their false doctrines clueless-doh.gif


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them
.

Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.

2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I do agree. But he clearly had a change of mind. According to you, repentance is a change of mind. In addition, you said you believe God gives sorrow to all who repent...post #296.
He changed his mind about an act he did

Not about his situation before God. and What Jesus came to do.

The gospel is not repent of a certain sin..
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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that's the nature of earthly sorrow, it's limited by the earthly mindset, Judas did not see Jesus as more than an 'innocent man' which he himself was probably striving to maintain, as such do by justifying theft or some other sin that would render them faulty. Judas realized he 'made a mistake' and fell short of perfection and so, thinking he would make amendments for his failing, hanged himself, forgetting all he'd been shown that Jesus was so much more than 'an innocent man,' which he might've realized if he actually did change his mind to actually be more heavenly minded.
Right. But Jesus hadn't been revealed to him in this way. Peter had Jesus revealed by the Father as the Christ, the Son of the living God. Thus, the importance of the revelation; not the person.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Right. But Jesus hadn't been revealed to him in this way. Peter had Jesus revealed by the Father as the Christ, the Son of the living God. Thus, the importance of the revelation; not the person.
Yes, I assume that Peter had "looked up" to see, and it was revealed to him.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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He changed his mind about an act he did

Not about his situation before God. and What Jesus came to do.

The gospel is not repent of a certain sin..
Ok. I'm merely trying to reconcile your statements with other statements you made.

You made a point earlier that repentance is a change of direction or mind. You didn't qualify it.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Yes, I assume that Peter had "looked up" to see, and it was revealed to him.
That would be an assumption because it's not in the text.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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That would be an assumption because it's not in the text.
even so, it is not one without... whatever those things are that leads to it...
which doesn't make it an invalid.