The Security Of The Believer

[wattie]

There are many biblical problems with the Catholic Church and the Charismatic movement.
I am strongly against the Catholic church, Charismatic churches, and the Pentecostal church.



Yes, I agree their hearts are not right with God. But why? Is it because they believe you need to have works as a part of salvation?
Well, not exactly. The real problem is that they came up with man made traditions and they do not accept everything that the Bible says and they justify certain sins because they are pleasurable to them. The same is the case in Protestantism (Note: Please keep in mind the Bible is my final Word of authority here). Okay. I have a challenge for you. if you were ever to just take a step back, and think objectively about this and look at the Protestant church as if you were an outside observer or a detective, you may see things that are hard to notice while having a mindset that is on the inside. Write down all the sayings you hear from OSAS Protestant teachers. Then compare their words to the words we see in the Bible. What you will find is that their words are not exactly to be found in the Bible. You will hear things like, “We are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross!” You will hear others say things like, “God alone saves.” Others will say, “sin is missing the mark.” Others will say that for us believers, “repent means a change of mind.” The list of unbiblical sayings goes on and on. At the end of the day, you will have to decide to be objective to what God’s Word says over what man’s words say. That is what this is really about. If you were paying attention, many in this thread who are for OSAS have been doing back flip twists through hoops of fire to try and change what the Bible plainly says when they are confronted with a verse that refutes their belief system.



Well, the Bible does teach this truth, but it is not the sole truth on the matter.
We do see the woman who was a sinner (past tense) who kissed Jesus feet love much because she was forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50).
We even see the apostle Paul say that he labored more than his brethren, but it was not himself, but it was the grace of God within him (1 Corinthians 15:10). Paul no doubt was moved greatly by God’s grace in that he was forgiven of all the horrible things he did towards believers before he was converted. So no doubt. God’s grace can change and affect us beyond our imagining and it is key to being fruitful. But we are warned. 2 Peter 1:9 says, “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

But we have also realize that there are things God tells us to do, as well.
It’s not always automatic.
How so?

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

I just seen this. Honestly. We agree on this truth in Scripture. But that is not the final word on the matter.
We have to look at the whole counsel of God’s Word on the matter.



I 100% agree with Luke 18:9-14. It is a poignant and powerful parable on warning us believers of the dangers of self righteousness and denying God’s grace or allowing His grace to shine.

There are some believers out there who would fit this description. For example: Adam at “Abide in the Word YouTube Channel“ would fit the description of this belief if I am understanding his belief correctly (From the few videos I have seen from him). if I am correct on understanding his belief, it appears like he does not believe like I do in the fact that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works. So we are saved by a belief alone, but is only when we are initially saved. God’s grace (and not works) is also foundational to our salvation because if we slip up into a sin on rare occasion, we do not go out to do a good work to absolve that sin. But we can confess of our sins to the Lord Jesus Christ to be forgiven of sin according to 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1. Let us boldly come to the throne of grace indeed. But the Pharisee made it all about Works and no grace whatsoever. He thought he was better than the one who was saved by God’s grace. But keep in mind this grace has to align with the grace in Titus 2:11-12, and not the false version of grace as shown in Jude 1:4.

The Pharisee also needed to learn the lesson that he is nothing and it was God who ultimately does the good work in Him and that without God He could do nothing. All praise should go to the Lord for any good done in his life. God is the One who makes us truly stand or fall. It is not solely our strength and power, but it is the Lord’s strength and power to do what is good and right.

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.

As for works issue:

Well, all I can do is encourage you to be a detective and look again at the verses I posted to you on how works do play a part in our salvation after we are saved by God’s grace. The key is not to fight with what they say trying to explain them away. We should believe and live by every word of God. Read the chapters for the verses I posted. Read it in context. But don’t read it with a preconceived belief with Protestantism talking in your ear. Be free from the voices of others. Just believe what Scripture says. Ask God to reveal the truth of the Scriptures to you by the Holy Spirit as you read the verses I have posted. If you follow that path, I am confident you will come to the same conclusion as me. if not, I believe all things will be revealed at the Judgment, and you will see the truth then.

Just picking up on your comment about no listening to Protestantism.

1...
Many Protestant denominations teach you can lose your salvation. Charismatic Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians...all mostly do. Also 'high' church Protestantism..in Anglicans and Methodists etc.. is almost indestinguishable from Catholics in the way a service is run.

2... Baptist's that didn't need reform plus other independent Christian churches teach OSAS and aren't really Protestants... Only in that they helped the reformers but weren't reformers

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

One more time. Every Christian will do good works. Why? Because they are saved.

But what happened in Matthew 722-23? Sure, they did wonderful works in Christ’s name, but Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. So while we do need good works (John 15:6) (Matthew 25:14-30), it is not all good works, either. We also have to have love, as well. Without love in our actions it profits us nothing (See: 1 Corinthians 13). But before all of this, we first need God’s grace through faith (Which is a process of salvation without works). It is when we believe the gospel message in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day. This is the gospel of our salvation. In short, we have to follow all our instructions in the Bible.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Hold on..not every Christian will be continuously faithful though. It's not only faithful believers in heaven. There are believers whose works gets burned up because they weren't continuously faithful who still go to heaven.

Does the Bible say that their works will be burned up? This is one of those sayings again that is merely invented.

 

[mailmandan]

@Bible_Highlighter says “This is very fanciful and imaginative but it has no substance or basis in the Word of God. The ”fruit“ in John 15 is a reference to works.”

selahsays: A true Christian will always produce fruit.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
- Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)

Amen! All genuine Christians are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)

 

[Fillan]

But what happened in Matthew 722-23? Sure, they did wonderful works in Christ’s name, but Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. .

It's not a given that they did anything good from that passage:

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The many say they did things, the Lord does not confirm this. He said he 'never knew them'. They were never saved, nor does the Lord confirm that they did even one work for the Kingdom. IMHO this passage is again addressing those who put their faith in their own works. God Bless You

 

[selahsays]

But what happened in Matthew 722-23? Sure, they did wonderful works in Christ’s name, but Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. So while we do need good works (John 15:6) (Matthew 25:14-30), it is not all good works, either. We also have to have love, as well. Without love in our actions it profits us nothing (See: 1 Corinthians 13). But before all of this, we first need God’s grace through faith (Which is a process of salvation without works). It is when we believe the gospel message in that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day. This is the gospel of our salvation. In short, we have to follow all our instructions in the Bible.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[Fillan]

Does the Bible say that their works will be burned up? This is one of those sayings again that is merely invented.

Perhaps this passage has a bearing:

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Again highlighting that salvation is not dependent on human works. We will be rewarded for what we have done for the Lord, but salvation itself is a gift, not of works so that no man can boast. God Bless You

 

[selahsays]

Perhaps this passage has a bearing:

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Again highlighting that salvation is not dependent on human works. We will be rewarded for what we have done for the Lord, but salvation itself is a gift, not of works so that no man can boast. God Bless You

Amen. Jesus paid an awesome price for believers to have eternal life.

 

[Fillan]

Hello!

Yes, I agree their hearts are not right with God. But why? Is it because they believe you need to have works as a part of salvation?

As a former RC and Charismatic/Pentecostal I would say that is indeed the root of the difficulties for many of them, the false gospel of works.

As soon as people are told that their Salvation does not depend on the finished work of Christ and that they can lose their salvation then they'll ask how they can lose their salvation. The RCC has created many questionable un-biblical teachings to answer this, as obviously the Bible cannot give an answer to a process that doesn't exist. The RCC came up with things like Mortal Sin, Purgatory, Indulgences and the like. With no assurance of Salvation, driven by unbiblical works. As for Charismatics, I was at a meeting where it was presented that a lady prophetess had been allegedly taken up to heaven and showed that those who didn't tithe to their church would lose their salvation and go to Hell. The bible (Deuteronomy 12, 14 and 26) explains what tithing actually is. With an unbiblical gospel of works sadly many have to make this sort of stuff up.

Okay. I have a challenge for you. if you were ever to just take a step back, and think objectively about this and look at the Protestant church as if you were an outside observer or a detective, you may see things that are hard to notice while having a mindset that is on the inside. Write down all the sayings you hear from OSAS Protestant teachers. Then compare their words to the words we see in the Bible.

I would recommend that you find a sound Bible believing church that goes through the bible book by book with expository teaching, exegesis not eisegesis.

What you will find is that their words are not exactly to be found in the Bible. You will hear things like, “We are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross!”

That might be a reference to:

John 19: 30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!”. Greek Tetelestai, finished or paid in full.

Jesus didn't say 'my part is finished, now over to you'! That would be like asking a rabbit to fetch a piece of lettuce.

We do see the woman who was a sinner (past tense) who kissed Jesus feet love much because she was forgiven much (Luke 7:36-50).

She is described as a sinful woman in the present tense. “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is—that she is a sinner.” (Verse 37). But it says: Luke 7: 48 "Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

But we have also realize that there are things God tells us to do, as well.

There are. And we should do them. But none of these things can earn us our Salvation, that is the Gift of God.

When a believer disobeys God there are consequences, loss of Fellowship, loss of Joy or peace to name a few. David himself in Psalm 51 said 'restore to me the joy of your Salvation', not 'restore to me Salvation'. There are many consequences of actions, many teachers try to throw all of them together as if they were all synonymous with 'losing your salvation'.

It’s not always automatic.
How so?

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

In these verses, taken from their passages you are throwing together several different concepts that I can see as if they were all synonymous.

But nowhere is this parable a defense for OSAS which leads men to think they can sin and still be saved. Yes, men can be in sin. When we first came to the Lord, our old life was one of sin. Yes, believers can stumble into sin on rare occasion, but they can go to God’s grace By confessing their sins and forsaking them and not say, I am saved even if I don’t confess or forsake these sins. I am already saved despite my being in sin. That’s not what the Parable is teaching. We see the Tax Collector seeking forgiveness of his sin with the Lord and not justifying that sin.

I wouldn't advise you to listen to a Christian teacher who encourages people to sin. I certainly wouldn't. But every Christian does still sin. There are those who say they don't sin, spend half an hour with them and see that they're deluded.

Well, all I can do is encourage you to be a detective and look again at the verses I posted to you on how works do play a part in our salvation after we are saved by God’s grace.

Of course works are related to salvation. They come after you're saved as a result of salvation. We are not saved by works, we are saved to do them.

When Jesus died and paid in full for our sin the world was plunged into darkness, no human had a part in it. The New Covenant was a Covenant we didn't make and we cannot break. When God made the Covenant with Abraham he put Abraham to sleep and plunged him into darkness (Genesis 15:12). It was a Covenant that Abraham did not make and that he or his descendants could not break. That's the point. If the New Covenant were made by human effort it could not last, neither could the Abrahamic Covenant. They are unbreakable for that reason, God alone made them, they don't depend on human effort.

God Bless You

 

[fredoheaven]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

Those professors are unable to enter the kingdom since the Lord did not know them, to begin with. The Lord said:
I never knew you

 

[fredoheaven]

Of course it's evidence of salvation. Who has the Holy Spirit except those who are saved. And verse 12 says work it out...not produce it. You cannot work something out if you don't possess it.
Salvation is of God. You rob God of glory by ascribing His work to yourself. God does not share His glory with another.

Amen! The saved need to work out and not work for salvation.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Just picking up on your comment about no listening to Protestantism.

1...Many Protestant denominations teach you can lose your salvation. Charismatic Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians...all mostly do. Also 'high' church Protestantism..in Anglicans and Methodists etc.. is almost indestinguishable from Catholics in the way a service is run.

What does a true Protestant Church do? They protest against the Catholic Church. Just because a person may have the word, “Protestantism" on their T-shirt doesn't mean anything unless they truly protest against Catholicism. If one is Protestant in name only and they don’t live up to what the origin of Protestantism was, they are not really Protestant anymore. They are wearing a label that doesn’t mean anything to them. I think a lot of Protestant churches over the years lost their passion in protesting against the RCC.

So yes. It is true I did say the words, “Protestantism,” and “Protestant Church,“ but then, after I said these two words, I clarified by saying “Protestant OSAS teachers.” Baptist Churches and Calvinist Churches are the embodiment of what true Protestantism is. Many Baptists and Calvinists protest against the Catholic Church the most and with a passion. I do agree with protesting against the Catholic Church. But I am not a Baptist, and I am not a Calvinist. In context, I was referring to Protestant OSAS Churches. Most Baptist Churches believe in Eternal Security (Except for Free Will Baptists who also believe you can sin and still be saved). I have even talked online with a few Free Will Baptists over the years. Baptists number close to 100 million (approximately). Calvinists believe in something similar to Eternal Security (which they called, Perseverance of the Saints), and they are about 70 million (approximately). Baptists churches are a branch of Protestantism, and they are a Protestant Church. Same is true for the Calvinists. So there are 170 million Protestant Churches who believe in some form of Eternal Security. They can truly be called a Protestant Church or a branch of Protestantism. It’s just not a mindless label they have on a coffee mug.

My main issue if you ever noticed is that I have repeatedly said OSAS and or a “sin and still be saved" type belief in this thread. This “sin and still be saved type belief” I am against covers the Free Will Baptists and other churches who believe they can sin and still be saved. Some say they don’t believe they can sin and still be saved but they do justify sin like the Catholic church (Seeing they are into idolatry and necromancy among other problems). The problem is sin, and most churches justify some form of sin or another. That’s the problem. We are living in an age of apostasy. The falling away has already begun long ago.

2... Baptist's that didn't need reform plus other independent Christian churches teach OSAS and aren't really Protestants... Only in that they helped the reformers but weren't reformers

Jesus condemned the idea that a believer could sin and still be saved. This is the main battle I am up against. Most simply don’t care. They prefer to just change words in their Bible when it does not agree with their sin and still be saved type belief. Most don’t even have a Bible they can call the perfect Word of God these days. But they cannot escape the Judgment of our Lord Jesus Christ. Most will be shocked to discover that Jesus will tell them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin). I wish this was not the case. I wish everyone would be saved. But this is just not going to be the case. Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). Jesus was talking within the sphere of professing believers and not atheists, agnostics, and or pagan religionists. Read the chapter and you will find this to be true. If you are not a truth seeker, then you will just go back to the imaginary world of OSAS, and ignore what I am saying, and you will seek to change words in the Bible to fit OSAS, instead of just letting the Bible speak for itself plainly. I say this not to wound you, but I say this in truth, and in love.

I hope this helps.

May God’s goodness be upon you today.

 

[Romans34]

Baptists churches are a branch of Protestantism, and they are a Protestant Church.

This is not true. Historically Baptists have never been Protestant. Only in modern times (1939 for the SBC) have Convention Baptists (and some others) declared that they are a protestant denomination. Get a copy and read "The Trail of Blood" by J.M. Carroll (and make sure you get a copy with the chart in the back).

[Dr. Carroll himself was a Southern Baptist who lived and died before the SBC went 'Protestant']

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

This is not true. Historically Baptists have never been Protestant. Only in modern times (1939 for the SBC) have Convention Baptists (and some others) declared that they are a protestant denomination. Get a copy and read "The Trail of Blood" by J.M. Carroll (and make sure you get a copy with the chart in the back).

[Dr. Carroll himself was a Southern Baptist who lived and died before the SBC went 'Protestant']

I never said anything about their origins. What they were in the past does not matter. I am talking about today.
They are Protestant today. Many articles and sources will confirm they are Protestant today. I am also not really into reading about various different churches and their history; Especially if it may be biased. I may briefly look up a church from time to time, but I am not looking to follow an organization or read their materials. I prefer to look only to Jesus and His Word. That is my primary go to source. Granted, I may watch videos by Baptists on the KJB topic. But I do not agree with their OSAS or their sin and still be saved type belief. That’s not how salvation works. This of course is their blind spot.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

It's not a given that they did anything good from that passage:

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The many say they did things, the Lord does not confirm this. He said he 'never knew them'. They were never saved, nor does the Lord confirm that they did even one work for the Kingdom. IMHO this passage is again addressing those who put their faith in their own works. God Bless You

It says no such thing. They did not put their faith in their works according to Matthew 7:22-23.
In Matthew 7:26-27, Jesus says everyone who does not do what I say is like a fool who build his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of it. After we are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9), we then need to enter the Sanctification of the Spirit as a part of salvation (2 Thessalonians 2:13). Works are merely a part of your Sanctification. We learn from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself that he teaches you need to be fruitful or do works as a part of God’s plan of salvation.

Consider these pieces of Scripture with words from the Lord Jesus Christ Himself:

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46). “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-36).

.“...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19)

“And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28) (An example of loving your neighbor is given to us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37).

“Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire” (Matthew 7:19). If you have been following along in the thread, I have shown verses that demonstrate a connection between fruit and works.

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

“And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: (Matthew 25:25-26). “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30). “And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:20-21).

So in order for your assertion to be true, you would have to explain away the plain meaning of these words by our Lord Jesus above.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

- Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

This is a strong warning to those who call themselves Christians but are only pretending. They do not do the will of God. They teach another gospel than the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. They teach traditions and doctrines that are not in the Scripture. You must do the will of God.

The will of God is not a sin and still be saved type belief.
The will of God is our Sanctification according to 1 Thessalonians 4:3.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Those professors are unable to enter the kingdom since the Lord did not know them, to begin with. The Lord said:
I never knew you

Right, and how do you know the Lord? By keeping His commandments (See 1 John 2:3). For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commands is a liar and the truth is not in him (See: 1 John 2:4).

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Perhaps this passage has a bearing:

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames. Again highlighting that salvation is not dependent on human works. We will be rewarded for what we have done for the Lord, .

In regards to the parable of the building,
and it's materials in 1 Corinthians 3:

Paul says before the parable, "you are God's building."
So we are the materials that make up the building.

The work is not referring to just any kind of general actions of a believer like good fruit (any kind of good fruit) and evil fruit (sin). The work is referring to those believers we bring to the faith and their eternal status with God (i.e. what kind of building materials are they made up of). The Parable is talking about Paul's work (Which is the Corinthians in this instance).

I believe Paul and the other apostles are a part of the foundation with Christ being the chief cornerstone or the ultimate baseline foundation (Ephesians 2:20), and that Paul's work in the gospel are the result of the Corinthians being initially saved by the gospel. However, Paul is now concerned that his labor in the gospel (concerning them) is now in vain because the Corinthians are now working the sins of strife and envying (Note: Paul condemns the sins of strife and envying when writing to the Galatians (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God). In Galatians 4:11, Paul was concerned for the Galatians in that they were going back to the Old Law so as to be justified or saved. He was concerned that his labor for the gospel was in vain for the Galatians.

So the parable speaks of how his labor for the gospel (concerning the Corinthians) was now possibly in vain for them, too.

#1. The chief cornerstone foundation = Jesus Christ.​

#2. Built as a part of the foundation on top of Christ = The apostles (including Paul, etc.) (Ephesians 2:20).​

#3. The actual building materials of the tower or building = God's people (In this instance it would be the Corinthians).​

#4. The Corinthians would be like: Wood, hay, and stubble in this particular point in time within their life while they abided in their sins of strife, and envying (Which are sins that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God).​

Wood, hay, and stubble are not materials that could survive a fire.​

#5. Paul (the soul winner, and builder of the gospel and builder upon the foundation of Jesus Christ) would be saved through the fire (despite his work - i.e. the Corinthians being his work) would be burned up because of their sins. For Paul then says that if any man defiles the temple, God will destroy them (Meaning: God will destroy the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins). We are the temple of God. Our bodies are the temples of God. If we as believers defile our temples by sin, God will destroy us (i.e. condemn us).​

This is what I believe the parable is saying. The works of Paul that will be burned are the Corinthians if they do not repent of their sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). The Corinthians at this point in time are not saved and they will be burned up in the fire and destroyed by God if they don't seek forgiveness with the Lord and turn from their sins of strife and envy. Paul, the apostles, or the gospel preacher is the one who will be saved through fire if his work (the Corinthians) is burned up (on the account of their justifying sin). The parable is not talking about how a believer can sin and still be saved as long as they have a belief on Jesus. It's actually teaching the exact opposite of that. One cannot build sin as a work upon the foundation of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not advocate sin, and neither did He teach that a person can continue to sin and still be saved.

Yes, we are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace, but believers cannot justify sin, and they have to be fruitful for their Lord and live holy as a part of the Sanctification Process.

For Hebrews 12:14-15 says,

“14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;” (Hebrews 12:14-15).

…but salvation itself is a gift, not of works so that no man can boast.

The fact that Ephesians 2:8 says it is a gift should give you a clue that Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to Initial Salvation.
How many times do you receive a gift? Just one time, right?
Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive).
How many times were you quickened or made alive?
I am hoping just one time because that is the new birth (which happens when we are Initially Saved).
So you are confusing Initial Salvation mentioned in Ephesians 2:8-9 and you are not able to distinguish or rightly divide that the Salvation mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is the next step in the Christian life. God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. This is not Initial Salvation, but it takes place as a secondary event after you are saved by God’s grace through faith without works. This is what you do not understand.

God Bless You

May God bless you, as well.
May His goodness be upon you and your family greatly.

 

[Romans34]

I never said anything about their origins. What they were in the past does not matter. I am talking about today.
They are Protestant today. Many articles and sources will confirm they are Protestant today.

I am also talking about today. Not ALL Baptists claim to be Protestant. Some of us understand the history (the past DOES matter), know the difference, and still hold to the same teachings as historical Baptists taught before they started claiming they were Protestants (which happened AFTER they came to America). New Testament churches still exist after 2000 years.

I am also not really into reading about various different churches and their history;

That's sad. Eternal blessings await those who will have ears to hear.