The Trinity Discussion

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B

bluto

Senior Member
#821
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
113
#821
Bronson said:
Poor Baby! How tightly you hang on the rope of deceit. Please s ho where the word trinity appears in the Bible.
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What a lame and childish argument bronson? Show me where the word "omnicience" is in the Bible? Or how about "omnipresence" or "omnipotent" is in the Bible. Does the Bible teach these attributes of God bronson? Here, let me give you a syllogism and let's see if you can disprove it. Oh yea, do you even know what a "syllogism" is bronson? Here, I'll even define it for you.

Syllogism in logic is a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given premises, one major premise and one minor premise. So tell me why you think the following syllogism is false or not true.

If the Bible teaches that there is one God

and

If in the Bible The Father is identifed as God

and

If in the Bible His Son is identified as God

and

If in the Bible their Spirit is identifed as God

THEN the doctrine of the trinity is valid

OR

The Bible is wrong.

So you see bronson, the word "trinity" does not have to be in the Bible for the doctrine to be true. So prove me wrong? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#822
#822
valiant said:
when God corrects you at the last day you won't be laughing
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And you aren't God now and you sure won't be God then and God did not make you judge and jury over no one, you speak foolishness. You have fallen short and have proved nothing but that you are a deceiver, good luck with that !
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#823
#823
bluto said:
What a lame and childish argument bronson? Show me where the word "omnicience" is in the Bible? Or how about "omnipresence" or "omnipotent" is in the Bible. Does the Bible teach these attributes of God bronson? Here, let me give you a syllogism and let's see if you can disprove it. Oh yea, do you even know what a "syllogism" is bronson? Here, I'll even define it for you.

Syllogism in logic is a form of reasoning in which a conclusion is drawn from two given premises, one major premise and one minor premise. So tell me why you think the following syllogism is false or not true.

If the Bible teaches that there is one God

and

If in the Bible The Father is identifed as God

and

If in the Bible His Son is identified as God

and

If in the Bible their Spirit is identifed as God

THEN the doctrine of the trinity is valid

OR

The Bible is wrong.

So you see bronson, the word "trinity" does not have to be in the Bible for the doctrine to be true. So prove me wrong? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
Well, well it is getting deep. Let see, the word proverb is in the scriptures and Jesus taught with proverbs and the scriptures even reveals what a proverb is but you are clueless, here let me help you out, a proverb means " to be like" meaning he was like his Father but not the Father of himself, it's not rocket science, it's common sense, now the word " and " is in scriptures, what does the word "and " mean? Let me help you out ? One " and " one = Two! or let me make it clear, one in addition, one = Two ! God in addition to God, Jesus Christ = Two ! Now where is the number 3 being or person ? There is none ! Why ! The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of one of the two or both, God Spirit, Son Spirit are both Holy, they are therefore one in Spirit, one in nature, is one greater than the other ? Yes ! Does scriptures back that one is greater than the other ? Yes ! The Father is greater than I. Now are you still a first grader or can you graduate and mature in understanding or are you going to be a first grader until you die ?
 
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B

bluto

Senior Member
#824
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
113
#824
Dagallen said:
Well, well it is getting deep. Let see, the word proverb is in the scriptures and Jesus taught with proverbs and the scriptures even reveals what a proverb is but you are clueless, here let me help you out, a proverb means " to be like" meaning he was like his Father but not the Father of himself, it's not rocket science, it's common sense, now the word " and " is in scriptures, what does the word "and " mean? Let me help you out ? One " and " one = Two! or let me make it clear, one in addition, one = Two ! God in addition to God, Jesus Christ = Two ! Now where is the number 3 being or person ? There is none ! Why ! The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of one of the two or both, God Spirit, Son Spirit are both Holy, they are therefore one in Spirit, one in nature, is one greater than the other ? Yes ! Does scriptures back that one is greater than the other ? Yes ! The Father is greater than I. Now are you still a first grader or can you graduate and mature in understanding or are you going to be a first grader until you die ?
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What are you suppose to be now, a "Paremiologist?" A biblical proverb is a "short saying that expresses a general truth for practical, godly living. Yes, the word proverb does mean "to be like" and this means (which obviously escapes your clueless notice) that Proverbs are full of comparisions showing us how various images (by those said proverbs) illustrate the fundamental truths of life.

What you are doing in your ignorance is trying to "shoehorn" the word proverb by using it's definition "to be like" means that Jesus Christ is "like" God but not God. What an idiotic and absurd comparison. I gave you a valid "syllogism that you cannot disprove because the Bible does teach that God the Father is identifed as God, the Son is identified as God and so is the Holy Spirit.

The Bible makes it clear that God the Father is God all over the place. The Son is identified as God by Thomas at John 20:28, by Paul at Titus 2:13 and by Peter at 2 Peter 1:1. The Holy Spirit is identifed as God at Acts 5:4. So this proves you don't know what your talking about. Furthermore, it has been explained to you a hundred or more times the Father is greater than the Son because the Son became or took the form of a man at Philippians 2:5-10. Jesus Christ was in the "form" of God BEFORE He became a man. This is the Bible, not from some amature like you that is incapable of dealing with the facts. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#825
#825
bluto said:
What are you suppose to be now, a "Paremiologist?" A biblical proverb is a "short saying that expresses a general truth for practical, godly living. Yes, the word proverb does mean "to be like" and this means (which obviously escapes your clueless notice) that Proverbs are full of comparisions showing us how various images (by those said proverbs) illustrate the fundamental truths of life.

What you are doing in your ignorance is trying to "shoehorn" the word proverb by using it's definition "to be like" means that Jesus Christ is "like" God but not God. What an idiotic and absurd comparison. I gave you a valid "syllogism that you cannot disprove because the Bible does teach that God the Father is identifed as God, the Son is identified as God and so is the Holy Spirit.

The Bible makes it clear that God the Father is God all over the place. The Son is identified as God by Thomas at John 20:28, by Paul at Titus 2:13 and by Peter at 2 Peter 1:1. The Holy Spirit is identifed as God at Acts 5:4. So this proves you don't know what your talking about. Furthermore, it has been explained to you a hundred or more times the Father is greater than the Son because the Son became or took the form of a man at Philippians 2:5-10. Jesus Christ was in the "form" of God BEFORE He became a man. This is the Bible, not from some amature like you that is incapable of dealing with the facts. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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You are a first grader at best, who wants to appear as someone greater but you have repeated your self to point the pattern you follow is clear. I simply reverse your approach and you took the bate but I used words that are in scriptures, Jesus used many proverbs but he came to a point where he would use proverbs no more.John 16:25 the time cometh, when I shall no more speak in proverbs, did you get that ? But I shall show you plainly of the Father. Did you get that ? He going to speak plainly of the Father, who his Father is. John 17:1 And this is eternal life ( pay attention ) that they might know the only true God and ( in addition to God ) Jesus Christ, whom You ( God the Father ) has sent. ( Jesus shows us who his Father is, the only true God, not a proverb but a fact, now we know Jesus is not the Father of himself, he makes it clear, his Father is his God, what did he say and reveal ? His Father is the only true God. Now can you show plainly that Jesus is the Father of himself, then and only then, can you say, Jesus is the only true God.
 
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V

valiant

Senior Member
#826
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#826
Dagallen said:
You are a first grader at best, who wants to appear as someone greater but you have repeated your self to point the pattern you follow is clear.
Click to expand...
Grow up!!!!


Jesus used many proverbs but he came to a point where he would use proverbs no more.John 16:25 the time cometh, when I shall no more speak in proverbs, did you get that ? But I shall show you plainly of the Father. Did you get that ? He going to speak plainly of the Father, who his Father is. John 17:1 And this is eternal life ( pay attention ) that they might know the only true God and ( in addition to God ) Jesus Christ, whom You ( God the Father ) has sent. ( Jesus shows us who his Father is, the only true God, not a proverb but a fact, now we know Jesus is not the Father of himself, he makes it clear, his Father is his God, what did he say and reveal ? His Father is the only true God. Now can you show plainly that Jesus is the Father of himself, then and only then, can you say, Jesus is the only true God.
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But no one claims that Jesus is the Father. As usual you show your total ignorance of the doctrine of the Triune God. The Triune God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, one God, three persona.

Scripture says that Jesus is God,

[FONT=Georgia, serif]cts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] He purchased with his own blood.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rev 22:12-13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif](Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 1:8-9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] but of the Son he says,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Your throne, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]O God[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Y[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ou have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for in Him dwells [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]all the fulness of the Godhead bodily[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif],[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:5-11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] being in the form of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the name which is above every name[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in heaven and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] on earth and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Lord[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], to the glory of God the Father. [/FONT]
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#827
Nov 17, 2015
4,108
960
113
#827
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#828
Nov 17, 2015
4,108
960
113
#828
Dagallen said:
You are a first grader at best, who wants to appear as someone greater but you have repeated your self to point the pattern you follow is clear. I simply reverse your approach and you took the bate but I used words that are in scriptures, Jesus used many proverbs but he came to a point where he would use proverbs no more.John 16:25 the time cometh, when I shall no more speak in proverbs, did you get that ? But I shall show you plainly of the Father. Did you get that ? He going to speak plainly of the Father, who his Father is. John 17:1 And this is eternal life ( pay attention ) that they might know the only true God and ( in addition to God ) Jesus Christ, whom You ( God the Father ) has sent. ( Jesus shows us who his Father is, the only true God, not a proverb but a fact, now we know Jesus is not the Father of himself, he makes it clear, his Father is his God, what did he say and reveal ? His Father is the only true God. Now can you show plainly that Jesus is the Father of himself, then and only then, can you say, Jesus is the only true God.
Click to expand...
Umm, you are actually debating with a Trinitarian view not Oneness.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#829
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#829
Bronson said:
Poor Baby! How tightly you hang on the rope of deceit. Please s ho where the word trinity appears in the Bible.
Click to expand...
Well, if I am still baby, I have still a lot of time to get right. You are quite old already so you do not have much time and you should try very sincerely.

Even though the technical word "Trinity/Triunity" is not in the Bible, its meaning is.

Bible says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God

Trinity/Triunity says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#830
#830
valiant said:
Grow up!!!!




But no one claims that Jesus is the Father. As usual you show your total ignorance of the doctrine of the Triune God. The Triune God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, one God, three persona.

Scripture says that Jesus is God,

[FONT=Georgia, serif]cts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] He purchased with his own blood.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rev 22:12-13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif](Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 1:8-9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] but of the Son he says,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Your throne, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]O God[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Y[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ou have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for in Him dwells [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]all the fulness of the Godhead bodily[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif],[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:5-11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] being in the form of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the name which is above every name[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in heaven and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] on earth and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Lord[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], to the glory of God the Father. [/FONT]
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Jesus clearly shows his Father is the only true God, as there is no other God, you are not debating what I say, you debating what he says. So what you saying is, Jesus doesn't understand the trinity concept, also what you are saying is Jesus is a liar.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#831
#831
fredoheaven said:
Umm, you are actually debating with a Trinitarian view not Oneness.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Click to expand...
No trinity there and no I am not debating with Trinitarian view. Jesus says plainly, his Father is the only true God, period, that's one God only, who is not three persons, not three beings, not three parts.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#832
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#832
Dagallen said:
Jesus clearly shows his Father is the only true God, as there is no other God, you are not debating what I say, you debating what he says. So what you saying is, Jesus doesn't understand the trinity concept, also what you are saying is Jesus is a liar.
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Jesus said, 'to You the only true God, AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM YOU HAVE SENT'. He is thus claiming to be a part of the only true God.

I notice you do not answer ANY of the Scriptures which show that Jesus is God,
 
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Dagallen

Guest
#833
#833
That you might know the only true God and ( in addition to the only true God his Father ) Jesus Christ ( His Son ), as he reveals both Father and Son, that we might know both. Remember he is showing who his Father is by doing so, he reveals who he is, the Son.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#834
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#834
Dagallen said:
That you might know the only true God and ( in addition to the only true God his Father ) Jesus Christ ( His Son ), as the reveals both Father and Son, that we might know both.
Click to expand...
You are adding to Scripture. He does not say 'in addition to'. The 'and' means 'You are the only true God and I am too'.

That is clearly how Peter understood it - 2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#835
#835
Dagallen said:
That you might know the only true God and ( in addition to the only true God his Father ) Jesus Christ ( His Son ), as he reveals both Father and Son, that we might know both. Remember he is showing who his Father is by doing so, he reveals who he is, the Son.
Click to expand...
John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself but the Father which sent me, the Father gave meva commandment, what I should say and what I should speak.
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#836
#836
valiant said:
You are adding to Scripture. He does not say 'in addition to'. The 'and' means 'You are the only true God and I am too'.

That is clearly how Peter understood it - 2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:
.
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No you are the one who is adding, the meaning " and " means in addition to, so did he say you are the only true God and I am to ? No ! He was talking about his Father not himself.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#837
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
#837
Dagallen said:
No you are the one who is adding, the meaning " and " means in addition to, so did he say you are the only true God and I am to ? No ! He was talking about his Father not himself.
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isn't it strange how you avoid answering the Scripture?
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#838
#838
valiant said:
isn't it strange how you avoid answering the Scripture?
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A lot of the scriptures you post are proverbs, it's the meaning behind the proverbs that you are blind to, on did Jesus say he was the only true God ? He used proverbs when teaching but then he gave the interpretation of the proverbs he used, you don't accept his interpretation, you avoid them. I am not avoiding the scriptures in any way, I just don't accept your interpretation but I accept the interpretation Jesus gave on who is the only true God but you reject his interpretation just as many has done throughout the years, his interpretation is not popular in the world today but man's interpretation is popular in the world today, unto he who give life to what is popular, shall fall ( the gate that is wide ) unto he who gives life to what is unpopular, shall stand tall and over come the fall ( the gate that is narrow ) what is popular is the gate that is wide but what is unpopular is the gate that is narrow, do you follow the interpretation of earthly men or do you follow the interpretation of a heavenly man ? It is a choice God will not make for you, it is not a choice that Christ will not make for you, it is not a choice I can make for you, it is a choice you must make on your own. Man's interpretation or the interpretation Christ gave, your choice. Accept his interpretation, that you might follow him or accept earthly men interpretation and follow earthly men. Accept his interpretation and be enlighten or accept the earthly men interpretation and remain in the dark ? I wish you the best in your search for truth, even as truth in in front of you, you still reject it.
 
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trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#839
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#839
Dagallen said:
A lot of the scriptures you post are proverbs, it's the meaning behind the proverbs that you are blind to, on did Jesus say he was the only true God ? He used proverbs when teaching but then he gave the interpretation of the proverbs he used, you don't accept his interpretation, you avoid them. I am not avoiding the scriptures in any way, I just don't accept your interpretation but I accept the interpretation Jesus gave on who is the only true God but you reject his interpretation just as many has done throughout the years, his interpretation is not popular in the world today but man's interpretation is popular in the world today, unto he who give life to what is popular, shall fall ( the gate that is wide ) unto he who gives life to what is unpopular, shall stand tall and over come the fall ( the gate that is narrow ) what is popular is the gate that is wide but what is unpopular is the gate that is narrow, do you follow the interpretation of earthly men or do you follow the interpretation of a heavenly man ? It is a choice God will not make for you, it is not a choice that Christ will not make for you, it is not a choice I can make for you, it is a choice you must make on your own. Man's interpretation or the interpretation Christ gave, your choice. Accept his interpretation, that you might follow him or accept earthly men interpretation and follow earthly men. Accept his interpretation and be enlighten or accept the earthly men interpretation and remain in the dark ? I wish you the best in your search for truth, even as truth in in front of you, you still reject it.
Click to expand...
Bible says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God

Trinity/Triunity says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God
 
D

Dagallen

Guest
#840
#840
trofimus said:
Bible says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God

Trinity/Triunity says that:
1. Father is God
2. Jesus is God
3. The Holy Spirit is God

4. There is only one God
Click to expand...
So you don't follow the interpretation of Jesus but you reject his interpretation of the proverbs he used, therefore you reject him.
 
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