The Trinity Discussion

[fredoheaven]

No trinity there and no I am not debating with Trinitarian view. Jesus says plainly, his Father is the only true God, period, that's one God only, who is not three persons, not three beings, not three parts.

Ho, ho, then to whom you are engaging? I thought the subject is about Trinity and I have the scriptural proof. What really you are trying to disprove is the Deity of our Lord Jesus which you cannot! Simple reason " The scripture cannot be broken" John 10:35b. It is the Father Himself says of His Son that Jesus is God! The same writer Beloved John says the Son of God is the true God!

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[Bronson]

Buddy, you know nothing about me so stop talking nonsense...

How many of the 44,000 differing Christian denominations take on the trinity? It is a lot, and given that it is a lot, one would think that God would have made sure that He would have explained, and made instruction for followers to accept this theory.....But no, there are as many arguments for as there are against as to the authenticate of this mind boggling, attempted to explaination by clergy, theory that cannot be shown to have any status in Biblical reference. On the contrary, the Bible is full of the one God status in so far as the almighty Creator of all things is concerned.

There is only one situation where God, the Almighty Jehovah would be denigrated to a lesser position and that one situation is Satan, his oppressor, the originator of the lie who would have people believe anything other than Jehovah being the Alpha and the Omega.

Satan is a god, money is a god to some, in many forms of 'Christianity' gods in the way of plaster saints are prayed to on a daily basis and given god status, so it is not so strange that so many people, blinded but the god of darkness, will stuff around with the trinity and not look to the many other falsehoods of Christendom.

Start with the one fact that there is only one truth, and work from there.

And, Old Mate, I know enough from your statement "The evidence for the trinity is very compelling and it is Biblical.", that IMO you have never studied the Bible,

But that is your opinion, your option, your right of choice, and I do not deny you your right of choice, just as you cannot deny me the right of my choice.

 

[Dagallen]

You can google these basic things very easily. So the purpose of your "questions" is to dodge the fact that your ideas are not biblical.

They are all through the scriptures, Jesus used all of such terms, if you can't see them for what they are when used in scriptures, then you will never have understanding, so he taught with proverbs, what does that mean ? Do you know ? When and where did he use them in scriptures ? What was his purpose in using them ? Me avoiding scriptures ? Not at all ? Avoiding your BS ? You bet !

 

[trofimus]

They are all through the scriptures, Jesus used all of such terms, if you can't see them for what they are when used in scriptures, then you will never have understanding, so he taught with proverbs, what does that mean ? Do you know ? When and where did he use them in scriptures ? What was his purpose in using them ? Me avoiding scriptures ? Not at all ? Avoiding your BS ? You bet !

7 useless questions in one your post and no answer to our objections again.

 

[graceNpeace]

How many of the 44,000 differing Christian denominations take on the trinity? It is a lot, and given that it is a lot, one would think that God would have made sure that He would have explained, and made instruction for followers to accept this theory.....But no, there are as many arguments for as there are against as to the authenticate of this mind boggling, attempted to explaination by clergy, theory that cannot be shown to have any status in Biblical reference. On the contrary, the Bible is full of the one God status in so far as the almighty Creator of all things is concerned.

There is only one situation where God, the Almighty Jehovah would be denigrated to a lesser position and that one situation is Satan, his oppressor, the originator of the lie who would have people believe anything other than Jehovah being the Alpha and the Omega.

Satan is a god, money is a god to some, in many forms of 'Christianity' gods in the way of plaster saints are prayed to on a daily basis and given god status, so it is not so strange that so many people, blinded but the god of darkness, will stuff around with the trinity and not look to the many other falsehoods of Christendom.

Start with the one fact that there is only one truth, and work from there.

And, Old Mate, I know enough from your statement "The evidence for the trinity is very compelling and it is Biblical.", that IMO you have never studied the Bible,

But that is your opinion, your option, your right of choice, and I do not deny you your right of choice, just as you cannot deny me the right of my choice.

Theology is not a democratic vote.
Furthermore I have never denied you anything...

You made more than one uncalled for disparaging and insulting post - remember those...
I made a to-the-point remark and your response was another insult.

As for the evidence about the Trinity it is pointless sharing it with you given your insulting and dismissive demeanour.
I repeat - you know nothing about me, especially not my knowledge of the Bible.

 

[bluto]

They are all through the scriptures, Jesus used all of such terms, if you can't see them for what they are when used in scriptures, then you will never have understanding, so he taught with proverbs, what does that mean ? Do you know ? When and where did he use them in scriptures ? What was his purpose in using them ? Me avoiding scriptures ? Not at all ? Avoiding your BS ? You bet !

Yea dagallen, I would like to know the answer to the questions you just raised? You say Jesus taught with proverbs, you then ask what does that mean and what was his purpose of using them? Yea, I would like to know how Jesus using proverbs to teach us has any bearing on whether He is God or not god in your mind? And one more thing, are you sure you mean Jesus was teaching in proverbs or that He was teaching in "Parables," which is it?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[prove-all]

The Holy Spirit [He] is a person:

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.

 

[trofimus]

In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender.
Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter, properly
represented by the English pronoun “it” (John 1:32; Romans 8:16).

The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal
pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender
has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example,
the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.

In my language, "spirit" is masculine in gender. Thats why I use and probably will use "he, his" etc when talking about the Holy Spirit.

I have "it" associated with things or animals which is inappropriate here and everywhere where we are talking about person.

 

[Dagallen]

7 useless questions in one your post and no answer to our objections again.

Questions you can't answer ! I am not surprised.

 

[trofimus]

" The Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit" (ruach) is feminine in Genesis 1:2. But the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew has nothing to do with gender identity."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html

 

[Dagallen]

Yea dagallen, I would like to know the answer to the questions you just raised? You say Jesus taught with proverbs, you then ask what does that mean and what was his purpose of using them? Yea, I would like to know how Jesus using proverbs to teach us has any bearing on whether He is God or not god in your mind? And one more thing, are you sure you mean Jesus was teaching in proverbs or that He was teaching in "Parables," which is it?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

If you would have read John 17:1 through 26 you would have the answer to what word was used there. What's the difference between, a proverb or a parable or a fable ?

 

[prove-all]

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html

from your artical it says

So, while the Holy Spirit is neither male nor female in His essence, .......

 

[trofimus]

from your artical it says

So, while the Holy Spirit is neither male nor female in His essence, .......

Nor Father or Son is male or female, because genders are needed only for biological life and reproduction of this biological life.

But when we talk about any person of God, we use masculine gender because it is the gender He chose to ascribe to himself when talking to us.

 

[bluto]

If you would have read John 17:1 through 26 you would have the answer to what word was used there. What's the difference between, a proverb or a parable or a fable ?

I have read it, did a word for word study on the verses by checking out the meanings in the Greek and I know full well the difference between a proverb, parable and fable. None of these are in the text of John 17:1-26. Furthermore, since your making the claim that Jesus is speaking by way of a proverb then prove it because your just making up things to cover your "butt" because you can't defend your view that Jesus Christ is not God.

Your view is based strickly on John 17:3 that the Father is the only true God and that's it, period. Never mind the other scriptures that say clearly that Jesus is God, you outright ignore them and this is why I keep asking you to reconcile John 17:3 to the verses that say Jesus is God. You can't so you end up making all kinds of excuses, just like this "lame" proverb excuse that I know you made up.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Dagallen]

I have read it, did a word for word study on the verses by checking out the meanings in the Greek and I know full well the difference between a proverb, parable and fable. None of these are in the text of John 17:1-26. Furthermore, since your making the claim that Jesus is speaking by way of a proverb then prove it because your just making up things to cover your "butt" because you can't defend your view that Jesus Christ is not God.

Your view is based strickly on John 17:3 that the Father is the only true God and that's it, period. Never mind the other scriptures that say clearly that Jesus is God, you outright ignore them and this is why I keep asking you to reconcile John 17:3 to the verses that say Jesus is God. You can't so you end up making all kinds of excuses, just like this "lame" proverb excuse that I know you made up.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Still the same old hard head way of thinking, I could post a hundred + scriptures and you would twist everyone of them, to try to make them appear to back your belief, if you are not Roman Catholic, you sure act as one.

 

[trofimus]

Still the same old hard head way of thinking, I could post a hundred + scriptures and you would twist everyone of them, to try to make them appear to back your belief, if you are not Roman Catholic, you sure act as one.

You just described your own behaviour.

 

[valiant]

They are all through the scriptures, Jesus used all of such terms, if you can't see them for what they are when used in scriptures, then you will never have understanding, so he taught with proverbs, what does that mean ? Do you know ? When and where did he use them in scriptures ? What was his purpose in using them ? Me avoiding scriptures ? Not at all ? Avoiding your BS ? You bet !

Then don't avoid these!!!!

Jesus is described as God or equivalent


Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which He purchased with his own blood.


Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;


2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:


Rev 22:12-13 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
(Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).


Heb 1:8-9 but of the Son he says, Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows


Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,


Php 2:5-11 Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

WELL?

 

[trofimus]

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
J 17:3

"Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
1J 5:20

Who does not believe in Trinity, gets a very serious problem with those verses. He either chooses just one of them and ignores the another one or he must say the other one is some kind of "proverb".

Trinity actually has no problem, because it says that both Father and Son are one true God.

Trinity wins the biblicity test again.

 

[valiant]

How many of the 44,000 differing Christian denominations take on the trinity? It is a lot, and given that it is a lot, one would think that God would have made sure that He would have explained, and made instruction for followers to accept this theory.....But no, there are as many arguments for as there are against as to the authenticate of this mind boggling, attempted to explaination by clergy, theory that cannot be shown to have any status in Biblical reference. On the contrary, the Bible is full of the one God status in so far as the almighty Creator of all things is concerned.

There is only one situation where God, the Almighty Jehovah would be denigrated to a lesser position and that one situation is Satan, his oppressor, the originator of the lie who would have people believe anything other than Jehovah being the Alpha and the Omega.

Satan is a god, money is a god to some, in many forms of 'Christianity' gods in the way of plaster saints are prayed to on a daily basis and given god status, so it is not so strange that so many people, blinded but the god of darkness, will stuff around with the trinity and not look to the many other falsehoods of Christendom.

Start with the one fact that there is only one truth, and work from there.

And, Old Mate, I know enough from your statement "The evidence for the trinity is very compelling and it is Biblical.", that IMO you have never studied the Bible,

But that is your opinion, your option, your right of choice, and I do not deny you your right of choice, just as you cannot deny me the right of my choice.

Then explain these verses

[FONT=Georgia, serif]Acts 20:28[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, in the which the Holy Ghost has made you bishops, to feed the church of God, which[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] He purchased with his own blood.[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Tit 2:13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ; [/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]2Pe 1:1[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]our God and Saviour Jesus Christ:[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Rev 22:12-13[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif](Compare 1.8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty).[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Heb 1:8-9[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] but of the Son he says,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Your throne, [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]O God[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Y[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]ou have loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellows[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Col 2.8-9 and not after Christ: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] for in Him dwells [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]all the fulness of the Godhead bodily[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif],[/FONT]


[FONT=Georgia, serif]Php 2:5-11[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]who,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] being in the form of God,[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]even[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] to death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted Him, and gave to Him [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]the name which is above every name[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] in heaven and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] on earth and [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif]things[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] Lord[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif], to the glory of God the Father. [/FONT]

 

[Dagallen]

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
J 17:3

"Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
1J 5:20

Who does not believe in Trinity, gets a very serious problem with those verses. He either chooses just one of them and ignores the another one or he must say the other one is some kind of "proverb".

Trinity actually has no problem, because it says that both Father and Son are one true God.

Trinity wins the biblicity test again.

Wrong as always, you win nothing.