The Trinity Discussion

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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According to the Bible,Jesus told the disciples to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,and He will do it.
If you ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
J 14:14
 
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DiscipleDave

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2012
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Any one care to share their thoughts, also from the word of why you believe that the trinity is the right way to view God? or even if you do not believe it and care to say why.
I myself do not believe the doctrine of the trinity, but I am not against those that do, nor do I believe it's dependent on a person's salvation.
It is written that ALL Scripture is given to us for instructions:

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Now if you say one verse should not be there, then you do not believe the above inspired by God Scripture. You either believe ALL verses in Scriptures, (Which is TRUTH), or you are one of those who pick and choose which verses to believe and which ones to discard, and which ones should not be there. (deceived by satan)

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

These THREE: Father + Jesus + Holy Ghost is what we Christians call the Trinity. It doesn't matter what you decide to call those three. Trinity or whatever. What is TRUE is what Scriptures teach. There are THREE that bear record in Heaven. The Father, The Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. Believe Scriptures not what people teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Jesus also said that the Son and believers would be one.
Quote.

If you mean this verse:

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

then it is something very different from this:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one."
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him"
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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You changed the passage to suit you interpretation, as the passage says, calling upon God, there is a good reason the passage used the word God but you changed calling upon God to calling upon the Lord, you did that so the beginning of the passage would look like the end of the passage, by doing so, you remove God the Father out the passage, foolish.
Actually the passage is even clearer. It says literally

'And they stoned Stephen calling upon and saying, "Lord Jesus receive my Spirit"

God the Father is not mentioned in the passage. YOU read it in.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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Quote.

If you mean this verse:

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

then it is something very different from this:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
I and the Father are one."
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him"
according to Jesus its the same as Him and the Father. its easy to miss these things when you can never see past the doctrine.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
790
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according to Jesus its the same as Him and the Father. its easy to miss these things when you can never see past the doctrine.
What are you saying? There is nothing about us being one with Christ on the same level as Christ is one with Father.
 
May 11, 2014
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If Christ is not God, why is He called "My Lord and My God"? And why is He glorified by saying glory and power to Him forever and ever.
You can only say that about God.

John in revelation is about to bow to an angel and the angel rebukes him.

When Thomas said "My Lord My God" to Jesus he was not rebuked for it.

Another thing to keep in mind is, are you willing to worship a glorified man? I thought it was only God you should worship.
 

Dagallen

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2017
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Actually the passage is even clearer. It says literally

'And they stoned Stephen calling upon and saying, "Lord Jesus receive my Spirit"

God the Father is not mentioned in the passage. YOU read it in.
I will continue praying to the Father, in the name of His begotten Son, that I my overcome what ever is needed, including both.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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No, He prayed for the Church to be as one. Not to be one with Him.
church is never mentioned, He even says the "as one" in question is the same as the "as one" between the Son and Father. a grade school kid could see this.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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790
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church is never mentioned, He even says the "as one" in question is the same as the "as one" between the Son and Father. a grade school kid could see this.
You must be kidding me or you cant read.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me [i.e. Church] through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
"

Jesus is praying for the Church to be one, united. Not to be one with Jesus. Either you have wrong Bible or you do not want to read what is really written.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,507
482
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You must be kidding me or you cant read.

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me [i.e. Church] through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
"

Jesus is praying for the Church to be one, united. Not to be one with Jesus. Either you have wrong Bible or you do not want to read what is really written.
im not kidding, church is not mentioned in the passage.

but if you like we can call believers church as we both know it has nothing to do with what im talking about. Jesus askes for the "church" to be one, just as the Son and the Father are one.

the big bold part is what im trying to show you, the part you keep ignoring and talking about church.
 

Dagallen

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2017
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im not kidding, church is not mentioned in the passage.

but if you like we can call believers church as we both know it has nothing to do with what im talking about. Jesus askes for the "church" to be one, just as the Son and the Father are one.

the big bold part is what im trying to show you, the part you keep ignoring and talking about church.
Some people make it all about the church built by the hands of man, putting the church before Christ, when that happens, you can't have a true relationship with Christ, you can only have a relationship which the church, putting church before Christ is foolish.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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It is written that ALL Scripture is given to us for instructions:

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Now if you say one verse should not be there, then you do not believe the above inspired by God Scripture. You either believe ALL verses in Scriptures, (Which is TRUTH), or you are one of those who pick and choose which verses to believe and which ones to discard, and which ones should not be there. (deceived by satan)
By scripture I take it you mean the written word? After all, the spoken word and the written word are one, in the same.

According to most Christians,
the ability of man to communicate using spoken word is something that occurs naturally by his physical design and languages simply evolved over time. So if it is written in the scriptures that man does not live by bread alone but every word that proceedeth from the mouth of the LORD does man live then howbeit that the all scriptures are given by the inspiration of God?

Likewise, since the ability to read and write the spoken word also considered to have evolved over time from the wisdom of man's own reasoning. Shouldn't it be that all scriptures are given by the inspiration of man?

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

These THREE: Father + Jesus + Holy Ghost is what we Christians call the Trinity. It doesn't matter what you decide to call those three. Trinity or whatever. What is TRUE is what Scriptures teach. There are THREE that bear record in Heaven. The Father, The Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. Believe Scriptures not what people teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave
That is like saying that there are three that bear record in the flesh, the male, the female and man, and these three are one. Or in the beginning was the female, and the female was with man and the female was man.
 

Dagallen

Senior Member
Jan 16, 2017
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John 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs but the time shall come, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs but I shall show you plainly of the Father. John 17:1 These words spoke Jesus and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, Father the hour is come, glorify Your Son, that Your Son may also glorify You: John 17:2 as You have given Me power over all flesh, that He who is the Son should give eternal life to as many as You have given the Son. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true God and the Son Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. ( I accept the saying of the Son, who shows plainly of who is the only true God, his Father ! Therefore the Jewish belief that, a claim to be the Son of God, is a claim of being God himself, was false. ) I stand !