The Trinity Doctrine in the Bible

[GaryA]

You're confusing the Roman church with the catholic church.

Nope.

Rome hijacked the term catholic which is why I wrote what I wrote. In fact, the term Roman Catholic is on oxymoron because either she is Roman or catholic but she can't be both.

Proof?

When the early church fathers refer to the catholic church they are not referring to Rome.

Care to show me examples of that?

The ecumenical movement is dead. The liberal churches that supported the movement will be dead and gone in a generation if not sooner. The one world religion that denies the creator is secularism. Secularists don't give a flip about the word "catholic".

It is not dead, but alive and well - and, marching forward steadily.

I believe you have missed the point regarding 'catholic' being dangerous. The word means "universal" - and is at the center of the movement by the RCC today to accomplish the "combining" of all "religion" into a one-world-religion.

 

[Athanasius377]

Proof?

The terms are mutually exclusive. One cannot be local and also be universal. It would be the same as saying that apple is big small. Well, which one is it? It cannot be both.

Care to show me examples of that?

The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the catholic church, the sole depository of apostolical doctrine. heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.

Irenaeus of Lyons. (1885). Irenæus against Heresies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 416). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

The Church of God which sojourns at Smyrna, to the Church of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to all the congregations of the Holy and Catholic Church in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 39). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

Now, as soon as he had ceased praying, having made mention of all that had at any time come in contact with him, both small and great, illustrious and obscure, as well as the whole Catholic Church throughout the world, the time of his departure having arrived, they set him upon an ass, and conducted him into the city, the day being that of the great Sabbath. And the Irenarch Herod, accompanied by his father Nicetes (both riding in a chariot), met him, and taking him up into the chariot, they seated themselves beside him, and endeavoured to persuade him, saying, “What harm is there in saying, Lord Cæsar,14 and in sacrificing, with the other ceremonies observed on such occasions, and so make sure of safety?”

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 40). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

This, then, is the account of the blessed Polycarp, who, being the twelfth that was martyred in Smyrna (reckoning those also of Philadelphia), yet occupies a place of his own in the memory of all men, insomuch that he is everywhere spoken of by the heathen themselves. He was not merely an illustrious teacher, but also a pre-eminent martyr, whose martyrdom all desire to imitate, as having been altogether consistent with the Gospel of Christ. For, having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, he now, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world.9

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 43). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, (Thanksgiving) which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure an

Ignatius of Antioch. (1885). The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnæans. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, pp. 89–90). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

Iraneus 130 -202 AD
Polycarp 69-155 AD
Ignatius of Antioch Died between 108 and 140. Some sources say he was a student of the Apostle John. Who knows for sure?

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.

It is not dead, but alive and well - and, marching forward steadily.

I believe you have missed the point regarding 'catholic' being dangerous. The word means "universal" - and is at the center of the movement by the RCC today to accomplish the "combining" of all "religion" into a one-world-religion.

That's because the movement towards a one world religion is not coming from Rome. Rome is about to be engulfed in a titanic struggle internally between Frank the hippie pope and the hierarchy and legit orthodox roman believers. The real threat lies farther east in China and the CCP. Thats a very real threat that is gaining power and influence every day.

 

[CS1]

Why did you not include..rapture?

thank you I did not think of it and only listed a few examples not all of them

 

[CS1]

The terms are mutually exclusive. One cannot be local and also be universal. It would be the same as saying that apple is big small. Well, which one is it? It cannot be both.



The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the catholic church, the sole depository of apostolical doctrine. heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.

Irenaeus of Lyons. (1885). Irenæus against Heresies. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 416). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

The Church of God which sojourns at Smyrna, to the Church of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to all the congregations of the Holy and Catholic Church in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied.

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 39). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

Now, as soon as he had ceased praying, having made mention of all that had at any time come in contact with him, both small and great, illustrious and obscure, as well as the whole Catholic Church throughout the world, the time of his departure having arrived, they set him upon an ass, and conducted him into the city, the day being that of the great Sabbath. And the Irenarch Herod, accompanied by his father Nicetes (both riding in a chariot), met him, and taking him up into the chariot, they seated themselves beside him, and endeavoured to persuade him, saying, “What harm is there in saying, Lord Cæsar,14 and in sacrificing, with the other ceremonies observed on such occasions, and so make sure of safety?”

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 40). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

This, then, is the account of the blessed Polycarp, who, being the twelfth that was martyred in Smyrna (reckoning those also of Philadelphia), yet occupies a place of his own in the memory of all men, insomuch that he is everywhere spoken of by the heathen themselves. He was not merely an illustrious teacher, but also a pre-eminent martyr, whose martyrdom all desire to imitate, as having been altogether consistent with the Gospel of Christ. For, having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, he now, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world.9

Roberts, A., Donaldson, J., & Coxe, A. C. (Eds.). (1885). The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna. In The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, p. 43). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, (Thanksgiving) which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure an

Ignatius of Antioch. (1885). The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnæans. In A. Roberts, J. Donaldson, & A. C. Coxe (Eds.), The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (Vol. 1, pp. 89–90). Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company.

Iraneus 130 -202 AD
Polycarp 69-155 AD
Ignatius of Antioch Died between 108 and 140. Some sources say he was a student of the Apostle John. Who knows for sure?

I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.



That's because the movement towards a one world religion is not coming from Rome. Rome is about to be engulfed in a titanic struggle internally between Frank the hippie pope and the hierarchy and legit orthodox roman believers. The real threat lies farther east in China and the CCP. Thats a very real threat that is gaining power and influence every day.

One cannot be part of the body of Christ (church) locally and collectively a part of the same body that is represented globally? i.e. little c vs big C? Those who are saved washed in the blood?

 

[Gideon300]

Can anybody help make The Doctrine of The Trinity clear to those who are new to the Faith using scripture alone?

There are only 2 known verses in all of scripture that even hint at the concept of a '3-person God' who is actually 'One'.

Matthew 28:19 lists the 3 persons of the Trinity, but does not describe their relationship in any way or teach the "concept" of the Trinity at all.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
(Mt. 28:19)
It is very significant to note that after this verse, the only baptisms that are related in detail describe baptizing in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. These are found in Acts 2:38 & 8:12

The other verse that comes close to describing the Trinity is Ephesians 4:4-6.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
(Eph. 4:4-6)
This verse, as well, fails to teach the actual "concept" of the Trinity.

There are many pagan religions with 3-person gods which go into great detail about the 3-person relationship of their gods and the history of how they came about, but in Christianity, there is no teaching anywhere in scripture about the Trinity. The word Trinity is found nowhere from Genesis to Revelation.

There is not a single book in the 66 books of the Bible, much less even a paragraph, that teaches the actual concept of the Trinity.

So how do we teach this concept to a new inquisitive Christian who is interested in learning about it in their Bible?

If you can teach this concept using the Bible alone, please supply those books, chapters and verses for the edification of those who are eager to learn.

The Bible is not an instruction manual with everything neatly laid out. It requires effort and the help of the Holy Spirit to find the truth. Systematic theology is man's concept, not God's.

John 1 says that Jesus is God, especially verse 1. John 4:24, "God is Spirit". John 8:58 and several other references, Jesus claimed to be "I Am", i.e. it was He who spoke to Moses from the burning bush.

1 Peter 1:12 clearly states "God the Father"

My way of working through these difficult concepts was to find a scripture then look up as many cross references as I could. I found it fascinating. It was more intellectual than spiritual for a long time, but God has worked much truth into my heart. Bible Hub is a great resource for this kind of study.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

One cannot be part of the body of Christ (church) locally and collectively a part of the same body that is represented globally? i.e. little c vs big C? Those who are saved washed in the blood?

If you are Christian, you are part of the local body which is part of the universal body. Which includes many from many denominations.

 

[GaryA]

One cannot be part of the body of Christ (church) locally and collectively a part of the same body that is represented globally? i.e. little c vs big C? Those who are saved washed in the blood?

This may help:

http://mywebsite.us/ABA/Topics/Local_New_Testament_Church.html

 

[Athanasius377]

One cannot be part of the body of Christ (church) locally and collectively a part of the same body that is represented globally? i.e. little c vs big C? Those who are saved washed in the blood?

That would be an example of catholicity. Yet Rome claims immediate jurisdiction of all of the church worldwide. If you are baptized according to Rome you owe her your allegiance. At least historically that has been the case. Modern Roman doctrine is like trying to nail jello to a wall. So in other words the title "Roman Catholic" the operative word for Rome is the word Roman. The way historically the catholic church locally was described would have been , the catholic church at Smyna, not the Smynean catholic church. It is semantics to be sure but details like this matter. Don't let Rome get away with hijacking a wonderful and historic word. Why? Because history matters first and foremost. And second, the word catholic appears in the three creeds of the Church (Apostle's, Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed and the Athanasian Creed).

 

[CS1]

This may help:

http://mywebsite.us/ABA/Topics/Local_New_Testament_Church.html

Thank it was answered.

 

[CS1]

That would be an example of catholicity. Yet Rome claims immediate jurisdiction of all of the church worldwide. If you are baptized according to Rome you owe her your allegiance. At least historically that has been the case. Modern Roman doctrine is like trying to nail jello to a wall. So in other words the title "Roman Catholic" the operative word for Rome is the word Roman. The way historically the catholic church locally was described would have been , the catholic church at Smyna, not the Smynean catholic church. It is semantics to be sure but details like this matter. Don't let Rome get away with hijacking a wonderful and historic word. Why? Because history matters first and foremost. And second, the word catholic appears in the three creeds of the Church (Apostle's, Nicean-Constantinopolitan Creed and the Athanasian Creed).

The point I am drawing from is not the historical church to those who have creeds but what Jesus said and the Apostles.


The church the body of Christ is one no matter where they are in the world. Jesus fully knows who they are.

In the Book of Revelation Jesus in chapters two & three Jesus speaks about the Church and they are all over the known world. All had issues, some more than others but Jesus called the "Church" Jesus called them to repent or he would spew them out of his mouth for their unfaithfulness.

Jesus is the head, not Rome and Jesus knows who his body is not a denomination. Jesus said there are many parts yet all are needed and one. Jesus is so much knowing who His body is HE will be coming for it.

 

[BamaPapist]

Can anybody help make The Doctrine of The Trinity clear to those who are new to the Faith using scripture alone?

There are only 2 known verses in all of scripture that even hint at the concept of a '3-person God' who is actually 'One'.

Matthew 28:19 lists the 3 persons of the Trinity, but does not describe their relationship in any way or teach the "concept" of the Trinity at all.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
(Mt. 28:19)
It is very significant to note that after this verse, the only baptisms that are related in detail describe baptizing in the name of Jesus or Jesus Christ. These are found in Acts 2:38 & 8:12

The other verse that comes close to describing the Trinity is Ephesians 4:4-6.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
(Eph. 4:4-6)
This verse, as well, fails to teach the actual "concept" of the Trinity.

There are many pagan religions with 3-person gods which go into great detail about the 3-person relationship of their gods and the history of how they came about, but in Christianity, there is no teaching anywhere in scripture about the Trinity. The word Trinity is found nowhere from Genesis to Revelation.

There is not a single book in the 66 books of the Bible, much less even a paragraph, that teaches the actual concept of the Trinity.

So how do we teach this concept to a new inquisitive Christian who is interested in learning about it in their Bible?

If you can teach this concept using the Bible alone, please supply those books, chapters and verses for the edification of those who are eager to learn.

Sola Scriptura itself is not biblical, so good luck trying to make out the entire doctrine of the Trinity using just that method. Fortunately, Jesus created a Church to make these things clear to us.

 

[phil36]

Sola Scriptura itself is not biblical, so good luck trying to make out the entire doctrine of the Trinity using just that method. Fortunately, Jesus created a Church to make these things clear to us.

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:30–31, NIV)

The Bible is infallible, men are fallable (the Magisterium is fallable).


Although we can learn a lot from other men/women, the only supreme authority in the life of the church is the infallable scripture.


Sola scriptura: The Bible is the supreme authority, sufficient and clear.

The doctrine of the Trinity is in Scripture.

 

[BamaPapist]

Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:30–31, NIV)

The Bible is infallible, men are fallable (the Magisterium is fallable).


Although we can learn a lot from other men/women, the only supreme authority in the life of the church is the infallable scripture.


Sola scriptura: The Bible is the supreme authority, sufficient and clear.

The doctrine of the Trinity is in Scripture.

Did I deny the infallibility of Scripture or something? I certainly did not, but you provided no verses that teach the Bible alone is the only infallible source of our faith. Sola scriptura also teaches the formal sufficiency of scripture, which Protestantism proves isn’t true.

 

[BamaPapist]

Nope.


Proof?


Care to show me examples of that?


It is not dead, but alive and well - and, marching forward steadily.

I believe you have missed the point regarding 'catholic' being dangerous. The word means "universal" - and is at the center of the movement by the RCC today to accomplish the "combining" of all "religion" into a one-world-religion.

It’s very clear that many of the people you replied to have never read the early church fathers (first 4 centuries). If they did, it would of been obvious that all these holy people held uniquely Catholic beliefs. It’s why Protestant churches don’t educate their members on early Christian writings from that period.

 

[phil36]

Did I deny the infallibility of Scripture or something? I certainly did not, but you provided no verses that teach the Bible alone is the only infallible source of our faith. Sola scriptura also teaches the formal sufficiency of scripture, which Protestantism proves isn’t true.

It's simple, man is fallible. The fallible cannot be on the same par or as authoritative as the infallible.


Take the magesterium for a good example (the church you are referring to). It states the bible is infallable in so far as what they teach about it.

"Why was the supreme authority of Scripture an issue at the Reformation? A variety of medieval theologians believed that the institutional church’s leadership, the bishops headed by the Pope (technically called the “magisterium”), were the true interpreters of Scripture. This effectively placed the teaching authority of the bishops over Scripture itself. The magisterium then could not be questioned. (T4G)"

 

[Magenta]

Digression: why does it say " Banned" under your ID?

That poster has "Banned" under their user name because he/she was banned.

Asking why they were banned is another matter altogether, and may not be wise.

Not that you asked that question Just a precaution

Not much point in asking a banned member a question, since they cannot answer.

 

[BamaPapist]

It's simple, man is fallible. The fallible cannot be on the same par or as authoritative as the infallible.


Take the magesterium for a good example (the church you are referring to). It states the bible is infallable in so far as what they teach about it.

"Why was the supreme authority of Scripture an issue at the Reformation? A variety of medieval theologians believed that the institutional church’s leadership, the bishops headed by the Pope (technically called the “magisterium”), were the true interpreters of Scripture. This effectively placed the teaching authority of the bishops over Scripture itself. The magisterium then could not be questioned. (T4G)"

Again, if the Bible itself does not teach that the Bible Alone is the sole infallible source of our faith...then Sola Scriptura is a self-defeating proposition, which is the case.

Paul calls the church the “pillar and bulwark of truth”. Sounds infallible to me. He also describes an oral “tradition” passed down through the church as the word of God. Jesus didn’t leave us a Bible when he ascended into Heaven, he left us a Church.

 

[CS1]

It’s very clear that many of the people you replied to have never read the early church fathers (first 4 centuries). If they did, it would of been obvious that all these holy people held uniquely Catholic beliefs. It’s why Protestant churches don’t educate their members on early Christian writings from that period.

That is not true. in my Bible school and seminary, they do just that.

The context of the RCC is not that is not the first but they are unbiblical relations to the very word they fully know and have received.

Mary is not able to save you or pray for you. We have one mediator between God and man that is Jesus Christ. The RCC Bible says that too.

There is no paying for one to get out of hell, that is in the RCC Bible. The Pope is not the authority of the church nor is he the embodiment of Christ and his words are not the authoritative word of God. it was an error when they First did and taught this and it is an error today. If you Look at what Jesus said in the book of Revelation and discern all Christian professing churches today on what Jesus said there in Rev chapter 2&3 The RCC fails greatly.

the reason for the supremacy of Scripture during the reformation and not earlier because the RCC became too powerful and led the monarchy and church with fear and threats of death.

Those of the "Reformation" final fight back and God blessed it. it is no the Protestant Church today who is seeking and teaching universalism it is the Pope of today who is calling Islam a valid way of salvation. IT IS NOT.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way, the only truth, and the only life. No other. It is not the RCC, the baptist, pentacostel, or any other title or name one may want to use. If you do not come to God by the cross and Jesus Crist, If you do not have faith in the death, burial, and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ I want you all to know the history of the RCC will not do it.

 

[CS1]

Again, if the Bible itself does not teach that the Bible Alone is the sole infallible source of our faith...then Sola Scriptura is a self-defeating proposition, which is the case.

Paul calls the church the “pillar and bulwark of truth”. Sounds infallible to me. He also describes an oral “tradition” passed down through the church as the word of God. Jesus didn’t leave us a Bible when he ascended into Heaven, he left us a Church.

God said I placed my word above my name. the word of God says we are to adhere to all that is written therein. The Bible says over and over again God speaking " Keep my words and live". The Bible is a miracle of God's handy work given to man written by man as the Holy Spirit carried them along and God has kept His word.

To say otherwise is like Joe Biden calling a national day of pray but left God out of it.

The RCC is called a church BUT it has LEFT GOD OUT OF IT.

 

[BamaPapist]

That is not true. in my Bible school and seminary, they do just that.

The context of the RCC is not that is not the first but they are unbiblical relations to the very word they fully know and have received.

Mary is not able to save you or pray for you. We have one mediator between God and man that is Jesus Christ. The RCC Bible says that too.

There is no paying for one to get out of hell, that is in the RCC Bible. The Pope is not the authority of the church nor is he the embodiment of Christ and his words are not the authoritative word of God. it was an error when they First did and taught this and it is an error today. If you Look at what Jesus said in the book of Revelation and discern all Christian professing churches today on what Jesus said there in Rev chapter 2&3 The RCC fails greatly.

the reason for the supremacy of Scripture during the reformation and not earlier because the RCC became too powerful and led the monarchy and church with fear and threats of death.

Those of the "Reformation" final fight back and God blessed it. it is no the Protestant Church today who is seeking and teaching universalism it is the Pope of today who is calling Islam a valid way of salvation. IT IS NOT.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the only way, the only truth, and the only life. No other. It is not the RCC, the baptist, pentacostel, or any other title or name one may want to use. If you do not come to God by the cross and Jesus Crist, If you do not have faith in the death, burial, and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ I want you all to know the history of the RCC will not do it.

Ok, then can you name one non Catholic Christian from the 1st 4 centuries that believes the distinctive Protestant beliefs you believe? Just one.

You mentioned Revelation, did you skip over the part where the elders in heaven were offering prayers to God from the saints on Earth? Or have you read in 1 Timothy about how all Christians are asked to pray for each other? When you go to heaven, you are still part of the body of Christ (probably more so). They can pray for us. James tells us prayers from holy people are very powerful, if you’re in heaven I would think those prayers are probably more so.