The True Meaning of Glorification
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I never posted to you. So sorry that you assumed I was speaking to you.
I was speaking to the original poster about his comment implying that CHRIST had to ascend back to the Father in order for HIM to have the GLORY of the FATHER.
I asked him this same question twice in two different ways.
And what led you to think that I was talking to you?
And is that what you think?
That I overthink another?
Listen, sir...if something doesn't make sense to me, I am going to ask for clarification...
He didn't make sense and so I asked him...
Not you...
I was speaking to the original poster about his comment implying that CHRIST had to ascend back to the Father in order for HIM to have the GLORY of the FATHER.
I asked him this same question twice in two different ways.
And what led you to think that I was talking to you?
And is that what you think?
That I overthink another?
Listen, sir...if something doesn't make sense to me, I am going to ask for clarification...
He didn't make sense and so I asked him...
Not you...
Sir I was coming back because I don't want any hard feelings between us? I am sorry you thought I was challenging you
it wasn't you but the original poster of this thread
but I see you posted and directly after your post I posted so I can see that you might have thought I was directing my post to you
i wasnt
and I don't know why I would question you
i think we have seen each other's posts enough to know by now that we believe the same Lord and Savior
it wasn't you but the original poster of this thread
but I see you posted and directly after your post I posted so I can see that you might have thought I was directing my post to you
i wasnt
and I don't know why I would question you
i think we have seen each other's posts enough to know by now that we believe the same Lord and Savior
Here also are verses which speak of his entering into his glory according to the following verses (which all agree in the same)
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm (again Psalm 2:7) Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Glorification is being shown in Hebrews 5:5 and Acts 13:33 after he was raised from the dead and where it was said to him (being made a high pirest) "thou art my Son, to day I have begotten thee".
Like if you follow thru in Hebrews to the following verse even shows the two (combined) in the place where the Father glorified Christ as Son in the first begotten from the dead (and also sworn in) as a priest (and for ever) after the order of Melchezidek (being at his right hand)
He couldnt take this honour on himself but as Aaron was called so likewise was Christ in His order.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. (Psalm 110:4)
In both places at his right hand (in heaven) the same said to him as in Psalm 110:1
As Christ said,
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
If he were on earth he should not be a priest (Heb 8:4) as he is not a priest after the order of Aaron( Heb 7:11) Christ springing from Judah Heb 7:14 Being declared a priest for ever (which is shown in Psalm 110:2-4) needed to be fulfilled (Acts 13:33) and than at his right hand (in heaven) where it shows it was said to him (Psalm 2:7, Heb 1:8, Psalm 45:6)
Even as Christ said,
Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And this one in particular was which he had with thee before the world was
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I dont know if these would help add anymore confirmation or not.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm (again Psalm 2:7) Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Glorification is being shown in Hebrews 5:5 and Acts 13:33 after he was raised from the dead and where it was said to him (being made a high pirest) "thou art my Son, to day I have begotten thee".
Like if you follow thru in Hebrews to the following verse even shows the two (combined) in the place where the Father glorified Christ as Son in the first begotten from the dead (and also sworn in) as a priest (and for ever) after the order of Melchezidek (being at his right hand)
He couldnt take this honour on himself but as Aaron was called so likewise was Christ in His order.
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
Heb 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. (Psalm 110:4)
In both places at his right hand (in heaven) the same said to him as in Psalm 110:1
As Christ said,
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
If he were on earth he should not be a priest (Heb 8:4) as he is not a priest after the order of Aaron( Heb 7:11) Christ springing from Judah Heb 7:14 Being declared a priest for ever (which is shown in Psalm 110:2-4) needed to be fulfilled (Acts 13:33) and than at his right hand (in heaven) where it shows it was said to him (Psalm 2:7, Heb 1:8, Psalm 45:6)
Even as Christ said,
Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And this one in particular was which he had with thee before the world was
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
I dont know if these would help add anymore confirmation or not.
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If you are trying to show it as being there (at his resurrection only) if you follow it through to Heb 5:7 it says,
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered
But there in both places he is called a Son, even in the days of his flesh also, but being begotten there is from the dead itself as the second psalm (according to Acts) had to be fulfilled "in that" God raised Jesus up AGAIN.
Though he WERE a Son is shown (the Word made flesh) even the Son of man (concieved of the Holy Ghost) who would be called the Son of God (even openly declared such) by the resurrection from the dead.
Shows a Son is "given", that God sent his Son made of a woman made under the law, both Son of man and Son of God. Begotten there is from the dead (when he is raised up again) adressed as Son (as the Son is also adressed as God by God also) as we see in the Psalm, but it still says, "though he were a Son". He come not as by a man (as his natural father) but by God (even as by physical birth) into this world and then again (after he was put to death and raised up again) declared Son there (and begotten from the dead).
Thats how I see it.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered
But there in both places he is called a Son, even in the days of his flesh also, but being begotten there is from the dead itself as the second psalm (according to Acts) had to be fulfilled "in that" God raised Jesus up AGAIN.
Though he WERE a Son is shown (the Word made flesh) even the Son of man (concieved of the Holy Ghost) who would be called the Son of God (even openly declared such) by the resurrection from the dead.
Shows a Son is "given", that God sent his Son made of a woman made under the law, both Son of man and Son of God. Begotten there is from the dead (when he is raised up again) adressed as Son (as the Son is also adressed as God by God also) as we see in the Psalm, but it still says, "though he were a Son". He come not as by a man (as his natural father) but by God (even as by physical birth) into this world and then again (after he was put to death and raised up again) declared Son there (and begotten from the dead).
Thats how I see it.
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Well, he was certainly a son already before he came to be on the earth, hence why it is said, "he sent his son", so, he became a son some time before he came to the earth, hence why it is said,
So whenever "today" was, it was before he came to the earth. And since the son has existed from the beginning, "today" can mean no other day than "day one" of creation. A son does not come at the same time as a father, first comes a father, then a son, and since the Father has no beginning, therefore the son came to be on "day one" of creation, and thus he became a son to the father on that day and was present in the beginning, to then utter his first words, "let there be light".
So whenever "today" was, it was before he came to the earth. And since the son has existed from the beginning, "today" can mean no other day than "day one" of creation. A son does not come at the same time as a father, first comes a father, then a son, and since the Father has no beginning, therefore the son came to be on "day one" of creation, and thus he became a son to the father on that day and was present in the beginning, to then utter his first words, "let there be light".
The apostles said that verse needed to be fulfilled though
See?
Acts 13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
That anchors it, and everything else needs to fit what has been revealed and we know that God sent His Son (become the Son of man) as the Word was made flesh (died, was raised again) ascended to the Father having been begotten from the dead and declared Son of God with power (and at the same time a priest for ever after the order of Mechizedek).
I dont reason with the word in the same way as you might allow for yourself, I take what is written and seek to confirm things already presented, and stay away from doing that. I need scripture to reason from (and with) but I try not to reason out of my own mind without them, that took a bit of discipline but I found its a blessing not doing that.
So I probably cant help you there, you are on your own there
See?
Acts 13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
That anchors it, and everything else needs to fit what has been revealed and we know that God sent His Son (become the Son of man) as the Word was made flesh (died, was raised again) ascended to the Father having been begotten from the dead and declared Son of God with power (and at the same time a priest for ever after the order of Mechizedek).
I dont reason with the word in the same way as you might allow for yourself, I take what is written and seek to confirm things already presented, and stay away from doing that. I need scripture to reason from (and with) but I try not to reason out of my own mind without them, that took a bit of discipline but I found its a blessing not doing that.
So I probably cant help you there, you are on your own there
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as it is written:read:
38. 4. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8. Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9. When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10. And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11. And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12. Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13. That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14. It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15. And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16. Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
:ty:
godbless us all always
. ... so as it is written
:read:
38.17. Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18. Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19. Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20. That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21. Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22. Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23. Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24. By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25. Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26. To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27. To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28. Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29. Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30. The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31. Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32. Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33. Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34. Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35. Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
36. Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37. Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38. When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
:ty:
godbless us all always
:read:
38.17. Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18. Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19. Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20. That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21. Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22. Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23. Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24. By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25. Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26. To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27. To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28. Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29. Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30. The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31. Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32. Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33. Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34. Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35. Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
36. Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37. Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38. When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
:ty:
godbless us all always