The "Trumping" Factor

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NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#1
As the title suggests, ya, I'm a Trump Fan. Although, in light of his statement last night concerning banning ALL muslims from coming stateside, I have YET to hear ANYONE else ask this question: "How can this country allow ANY "religion", who's seemingly ONLY "credo" is to DESTROY Christians/Jews...EVERYONE, who believes in the God of Abraham, Issac (not ishmael...islam?.....ishmael?....hmmm), and Jacob. I WILL, however change MY vote to the FIRST candidate, who does ask this question.

I'd a done a "poll", but, there just too many moving parts.........

Personally, I'd like to ban EVERYONE from immigrating/emigrating stateside.....For a little while, anyways.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
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#2
As the title suggests, ya, I'm a Trump Fan. Although, in light of his statement last night concerning banning ALL muslims from coming stateside, I have YET to hear ANYONE else ask this question: "How can this country allow ANY "religion", who's seemingly ONLY "credo" is to DESTROY Christians/Jews...
I've lived overseas in a Muslim run country in the Middle East. Your description does not fit my experience. In my experience everyone was respectful and hospitable and weren't out to "destroy Christians/Jews" so I don't think you're correct in your statement about "ALL muslims."

Really, Trump's proposed ban is a policy based in (a) collectivism, (b) fear and (c) laziness. His proposal views individuals as part of a collective in that it doesn't recognize individuation or variance within the group. His proposal is lazy because rather than do required leg work to differentiate between different types of Muslims or do the leg work required to combat the problem of radical Islamic ideology, it's theology, it's causes, and it's motives, it's much simpler to lump everyone into a collective and just ban them all.

Trump's collectivism is about as un-American as you can be. One of the hallmark's of American republicanism is the recognition of rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness for each and every individual. Trump's proposed ban denies these basic rights to certain people - namely, Muslims. He collectivizes them rather than individuating them, finds the group guilty without due process for the individuals in the group, and then makes policy affecting all individuals in the group. But this denies individuals in the group rights that are inherent to their humanity. On a fundamental level, Trump seems to be a nationalist and a collectivist. Both of these traits have historically proven to be very dangerous when someone with them is in power.

[/QUOTE]

EVERYONE, who believes in the God of Abraham, Issac (not ishmael...islam?.....ishmael?....hmmm), and Jacob. I WILL, however change MY vote to the FIRST candidate, who does ask this question.
Seems like your criteria for a candidate is rather simple.

Personally, I'd like to ban EVERYONE from immigrating/emigrating stateside.....For a little while, anyways.
Why? And what do you do with the people already here?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#3
I've lived overseas in a Muslim run country in the Middle East. Your description does not fit my experience. In my experience everyone was respectful and hospitable and weren't out to "destroy Christians/Jews" so I don't think you're correct in your statement about "ALL muslims."
yes, this. i work and interact with a number of Muslims, and the myopic, fear-based, right-wing rhetoric about them as a generalization of character does not match my experience either. i'm embarrassed every time someone associates the Republican party with Christianity, for more reasons than this. that association is a propaganda tool to garner votes, not a legitimate sharing of values.

there's a big measure of ignorance at play -- and in a secular sense, we might ought to remember that this country's first amendment establishes freedom of religion -- not "freedom of Christianity" -- but freedom of religion. America is and always has been a melting pot, not a Christian "upper room."

what distinguishes Trump's remarks from Hitler's rhetoric against the Jews is a thin line, IMO.
 
Aug 13, 2013
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#4
Are the fema camps coming? Is this internment all over again like in the 40's?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#6
AEVERYONE, who believes in the God of Abraham, Issac (not ishmael...islam?.....ishmael?....hmmm), and Jacob.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all in the Koran, and Islam teaches that all three believed and followed One God.

the character of Islam and it's book radically changed with Mohammed - but it didn't begin with that man. if you took the time to witness and listen to a Moslem, you might discover that as Christians we have a lot in common, so that what separates us is largely the right understanding of who Christ is, and who Mohammed was.

that's not to say that the Truth we know is compatible with Islam -- but do the Moslems believe they serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? yes, they do, the very same. "Allah" is simply the Arabic word meaning "God" - and when they say it, they mean to refer to the very same God. the difference between us is that they have rejected Christ, who He sent, and accepted a false prophet in His place. in that respect, they are no more different than Mormons from us.

personally, i'd like to ban ignorance and fear. which candidate is for that?
 
Aug 13, 2013
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#7
Are you saying we have the same bible and the same God as the Muslims when they call us unbelievers?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#8
Are you saying that Trump is the same as Hitler?

i'm saying that there is not a whole lot distinguishing his position from Hitler's.

both are charismatic right-wing conservatives, without substantial political policy ideas, making appeals to nationalist pride, boasting about "making their country 'great' again," blaming a religious/ethnic group for problems, playing on fear to stir up emotion, and advocating rounding up and detaining immigrants, shipping them off and blocking all further immigration with a subtext of 'purifying' the nation.

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#9
Are you saying we have the same bible and the same God as the Muslims when they call us unbelievers?
are you reading my posts?

the first half of the Koran is basically old testament stories about Abraham retold. its character radically changes when Mohammed appears. have you ever looked at it, or did Rush Limbaugh tell you everything you know about Islam?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#10
Are the fema camps coming? Is this internment all over again like in the 40's?

we ain't that far from mccarthyism as it stands, brother. we've been having 8 years of a 'second red scare' already.

here's a thread talking about being a "fan" of a man who wants to be president and deport anyone who says "yes" to being a believer of a certain religion. how exactly do you think that squares with amendment #1 ? what do you think it takes for the next guy to come along and do the same thing with a different religion, maybe yours?
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#11
sorry about the "rawr rawr"

i get upset about how successful slick advertising has been in convincing so many that Christianity and Republicanism are the same thing.

:(
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
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#12

what do you think it takes for the next guy to come along and do the same thing with a different religion, maybe yours?
What if Obama just goes ahead and bans Trump-ism and it's followers as a precaution? I mean, thus far we can't really be confident that his brand of nationalistic collectivism is safe for freedom.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#13
Are you saying we have the same bible and the same God as the Muslims when they call us unbelievers?
the Moslem believes he is serving the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac.

whether that is true or not is a totally different question.
do i think it's true? no, of course not! because i have the Truth, and the Truth has me. but to reach a Moslem with this truth, you don't have to convince them that the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac exists -- only to show them that they are mislead about Him, and the One He sent.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
What if Obama just goes ahead and bans Trump-ism and it's followers as a precaution? I mean, thus far we can't really be confident that his brand of nationalistic collectivism is safe for freedom.

what if Trump sets this kind of precedent, singling out and persecuting a religious group, and in 4 or 8 more years we get a gay president who's outspoken against "Christian bigotry" ?


 
K

Kaycie

Guest
#15
Like Martin Luther King Jr. said, a person should not be judged according to their outward appearance, but by the content of their character. Just as SOME whites were racist against all blacks because some blacks were murderers, many are racist against all Muslims because some Muslims are murderers. There are murderers in every race and nation (unfortunately). I myself am closely related to a man found guilty of murder, and serves life in prison. Does that make me a murderer? Of course not.

Muslims are not the only people who grew up being taught a false religion. They do believe in the first five books of the bible- through which I was able to convert some by showing them the truth. But they themselves are in fear and trying to escape radical Muslims who harm them even more than they've harmed Americans. And they are being lied to. They are shown videos of porn, kidnapping, murder, homosexuality, theft, etc. Then they are told we act this way FOR Christ, because we believe the more sin we do the more grace we get. And since most

Americans claim to be Christian, they think we are all evil, and that it's their mission to purge the earth of such evil nations. The dangerous thing is they still believe we are in Old Testament times- like when Saul killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands. They don't know our battles are now spiritual instead of physical, they don't know that Christ called us to be nonviolent. And the really dangerous thing is they don't know they are no longer Gods people, that in John chapter one God switched to adoption because they would not receive God's Son. So they think they are God's only people, and that Christians are the evil ones. The bible says a time will come when those who put you to death will think they are doing a service to God.

This false doctrine Quran is a very dangerous teaching for the radical and no radical alike. They believe after the first five books of the bible that God was silent all the way up to the Quran which is far after Christ, and after God's word (bible) was completed and that no other writings are to be added.

Just st as false doctrines have some truth mixed with lies, some things Trump says I agree with. But overall, he does not have the right mind frame or maturity to be president. Can you imagine him talking to other world leaders like he talks to Rosie Odonald? We are certain to be bombed then. Whoever the next president is, he needs to be assertive in going after Isis. Evil is dangerous enough, but evil that thinks it is good is even more so.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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#16
Jesus preached "A little yeast leavens the whole lump."

Islam is a lie, a fuzzy undefined lie that can be adjusted to look like the culture in which it is put. I call this a mirage.

The core accusation is the cause of sin in the world is the wrong corrupt religion. The dream is with the right religion, Islam everything will be ok. Because this is never defined, any muslim can point at anything non-muslim and say, that is the cause, reject that. The whole community then responds in obedience because there is no basis for a counter argument.

Now the core "right" way of running the community is black and white. Adultery, death, homosexuality, death, murder, death, theft, hands chopped off. Now in pure law old testament terms people would say, harsh, but it is there in the bible.

But unbelief, apostacy, and blasphemy is also death. An apostate becomes not being the right type of muslim, or praying the wrong way. So the logical noose goes tighter and the murders and mayhem increase, innocents accused of blasphemy, apostacy for any and every reason, summarily murdered with no come back.

Now what stops the ordinary muslim falling into this pit of logic? It is nuts and so counter to life experience. But imagine you get a little depressed and unhappy with your social group, a little paranoid, then wack, suddenly it all makes sense, why did you not see it before. They are all guilty of blasphemy and deserve to die.

Now if I can take you logically from normal life to 100% Isis in 10 sentences, you need to take seriously this idiology is dangerous and without foundation. Islam survives because it refuses to define morality, law, love, respect, righteousness, sin, God, Jesus properly, so if you argue with it, they twist it to say whatever looks nice. But it is only 50% nice, not real.

And once you challenge it you have declared yourself an enemy, therefore of Satan, and worthy of death. So do not ever suggest this idiology is anything but dangerous.

An example of this reality is read the stories of girls who at 16 said to their father they did not want to marry the man they were being set up for. Suddenly their nice family became violent, aggressive and their life was in danger. Why? Because a father can kill a daughter with no problem before God. And in their eyes, that is what matters.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#17

what if Trump sets this kind of precedent, singling out and persecuting a religious group, and in 4 or 8 more years we get a gay president who's outspoken against "Christian bigotry" ?


Don't you ALREADY have one? :rolleyes:

 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#18
As the title suggests, ya, I'm a Trump Fan. Although, in light of his statement last night concerning banning ALL muslims from coming stateside, I have YET to hear ANYONE else ask this question: "How can this country allow ANY "religion", who's seemingly ONLY "credo" is to DESTROY Christians/Jews...EVERYONE, who believes in the God of Abraham, Issac (not ishmael...islam?.....ishmael?....hmmm), and Jacob. I WILL, however change MY vote to the FIRST candidate, who does ask this question.

I'd a done a "poll", but, there just too many moving parts.........

Personally, I'd like to ban EVERYONE from immigrating/emigrating stateside.....For a little while, anyways.
I don't think it can be stopped... below is what happens when a nations turns away from God. It sounds the US to me.

Deuteronomy 28:49-52 KJV
The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
[50] A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
[51] And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
[52] And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
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#19

what if Trump sets this kind of precedent, singling out and persecuting a religious group, and in 4 or 8 more years we get a gay president who's outspoken against "Christian bigotry" ?


I think we might already have a gay president married to a Michael Robinson. Still investigating. Please don't throw stone. Smile.

I just hope that most Muslims are not true Muslims. The Koran calls for the destruction of all infidels. Muslims are taught to be nice, gargle, smile a lot, befriend their infidel neighbors then when the call goes out from head quartetrs, kill the infidels.

Brigitte Gabriel has it right.

Obama has indicated he is Muslim. Explains his reluctance to fight Isis. Oh boy. Several muslims in top positions in our government. Am I wandering again? Sorry.
 
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Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
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#20
Oh and I don't remember beheaders with long knives, guns, and bombs entering Germany during time of Hitler. Comparing Trump with Hitler doesn't work.
However, alienating all Muslim countries when we need their ground forces to defeat Isis not good.

Im just saying we need the bad guys, Putin, to help defeat the bad guys. Oh what to do, what to do. Here's what we need to do!

The better route would be for the 'church' (yea I'm doing it again) to align with the word and repent and then maybe, just maybe God would then bring America to repentance..........hope springs eternal.....not holding my breath. Well. Maybe just a little. Now throw your stones. Smile. I'm not mad atcha!