The truth behind the Law

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I think what you are doing is placing the sacrificial system on us today. There are 2 things wrong with that idea.
1 HaShem told us in the OT what He wanted.
Psa 40:6
You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand you don't require burnt offerings or sin offerings.
Jer 6:20
There's no use offering me sweet frankincense from Sheba. Keep your fragrant calamus imported from distant lands! I will not accept your burnt offerings. Your sacrifices have no pleasing aroma for me.”
Hos 6:6
I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices.
I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings.

As I said, I see the Torah as His profile. It is from understanding the truth behind His law, that we can see the true Him.




Of the 2 that are given by Yeshua, if we work to keep just them, the rest fall into place. If we love HaShem, then the first for will be kept.
If we love one another then the last 5 will be kept.
It is good to note that there are more than just the 10C that one should look at. After all, any that wish the Law to go away, still follow many of them, ever when they say they don't.
Take tithes, perverted sexual acts, not offering you kids to ideals, not cutting your self, this can go on, though I think you get the idea.

I can't wait to get your reply. You always have something reverent to add. I do hope it makes me think as well.
the key I see is
"As I said, I see the Torah as His profile. It is from understanding the truth behind His law, that we can see the true Him.
"

Yes! Understanding the truth behind His law!

And, what governs our daily actions? the truth behind His law? Or, the actual words of the law?
 

Rainrider

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,536
87
48
when it's 1800 in one part of the world, it's 0600 the next day in another.

when Genesis says Evening and Morning, then, is it talking about a particular place? If day six closes at different times around the world, when did God start resting?

I agree, it doesn't need to be a big deal, but it is for some Jewish Rabbis, because they want so much to keep the law exactly right.
It is said,(we really know until we can ask HaShem) That HaShem was speaking for Jerusalem. I really don't see as we can say this isn't true, as the Word does say Jerusalem is the apple of His eye. Add that to the fact that when looking at prophecy, (keep in ind I am not one to say I understand that much) we can see that Israel is His time peace. So yes it vary likely that He started it when the sun was setting over Israel.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
If one takes out of context the Word, they can nerve find truth in it. The phrase "Blood of vipers, is only found 4 times in the Bible, not once it is used in concretion with the Law. If you find it used in a passage that is not listed, please post that passage so I can see it.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 12:34 “Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Mat 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Luk 3:7 Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Just to be clear I looked in some 17 different translation to be sure I know what I was saying was in Context, and not removed from any of the ones I have on hand.
The phrase was only found in 4 translations, and only in the passages I posted.
So to answer your question, He never did.
Can i ask how you can say the above has nothing to do with the law?
it had to do with the truth of the messiah whom those who had GOD's WORD and we're under the LAW should have understood by all the goings on that GOD's WORD and PROMISE had come

But instead of believing, they disbelieved and even challenged THE WORD

Nor only that, two of these above passages speak about John's message.
The "brood of vipers" came out to hear john, that's for sure...but they didn't want to do what John told the crowds to do

if they did, it would be a witness against them before all the common folks that they too were unclean and in need of this baptism

So they didn't do it
and John called them out on it
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
Matthew 12 and 23 had to do with the TRUTH that the Pharisees did not believe HIM and so they tried to trap HIM through the requirements of THE LAW

that is why Jesus called them a brood of vipers because here they are claiming to follow the law but they can't even make a right judgement not only about what is good and right to do but concerning CHRIST to be THE MESSIAH
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
If someone follows the law perfectly but does not believe in Jesus Christ and hasn't been baptized (by GOD) through faith in HIM are they justified in the sight of GOD
 
Last edited:
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
If someone follows the law perfectly but does not believe in Jesus Christ and hasn't been baptized (by GOD) through faith in HIM are they justified in the sight of GOD
This is an impossible question to answer because nobody has done this and will ever be able to do this..... except for Jesus Christ our Saviour. He kept the Torah to the last letter.

God was and is always looking for relationship with us, if we are in a relationship with Him the law will take care of itself because man made doctrines will not have a hold on us :) . God's law is His law and as He is a non-changing god we can with certainty say that our problem with the law is with our interpretation and not with God's law.
 
B

Burninglight

Guest
If someone follows the law perfectly but does not believe in Jesus Christ and hasn't been baptized (by GOD) through faith in HIM are they justified in the sight of GOD
First of all, no one can keep the law perfectly but Jesus. Abraham was justified by faith. Without faith it is not possible to please God. Do you think someone without faith or belief in the Word of God would be justified by God? Why do you waste time thinking of ridiculous questions? There is no salvation outside of Christ. Jesus said "NO one comes to the father but by me."
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
First of all, no one can keep the law perfectly but Jesus. Abraham was justified by faith. Without faith it is not possible to please God. Do you think someone without faith or belief in the Word of God would be justified by God? Why do you waste time thinking of ridiculous questions? There is no salvation outside of Christ. Jesus said "NO one comes to the father but by me."
Good point!

And it was so even before He was born from His earthly mother. Everybody in the Old Testament knew Jesus.....
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
This is an impossible question to answer because nobody has done this and will ever be able to do this..... except for Jesus Christ our Saviour. He kept the Torah to the last letter.

God was and is always looking for relationship with us, if we are in a relationship with Him the law will take care of itself because man made doctrines will not have a hold on us :) . God's law is His law and as He is a non-changing god we can with certainty say that our problem with the law is with our interpretation and not with God's law.
this isn't an impossible question to ask

How does any man enter into a right relationship with GOD

especially since by HIS WORD to those under THE LAW, HE had already declared all unclean. And not only those under the LAW but all nations

So doesn't GOD have to first wash us and declare us clean. in order for us to be in the right relationship with HIM?
 
Last edited:

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
Good point!

And it was so even before He was born from His earthly mother. Everybody in the Old Testament knew Jesus.....
And yet GOD not only turned the whole world ovee to disobedience, but through thebpeophwt Haggai declared all unclean

can following the law, apart from faith in CHRIST JESUS as the ONE who washed us and restored us to GOD save us?
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
And yet GOD not only turned the whole world ovee to disobedience, but through thebpeophwt Haggai declared all unclean

can following the law, apart from faith in CHRIST JESUS as the ONE who washed us and restored us to GOD save us?
Keeping the law never saved anybody... not even in the OT so I can't really see the point of your question...
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
The Jews did not want to wash. They did not want to listen to John because if they did what he said, they would have had to admit that they were imperfectt (and no different than the common folk who looked to them as their spiritual link to GOD). They would have had to admit to those who thought they had a right relationship with GOD, that they too were convicted and guilty of their sins, that they couldn't follow the law perfectly and they needed to be washed.

and they could not do it
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
First of all, no one can keep the law perfectly but Jesus. Abraham was justified by faith. Without faith it is not possible to please God. Do you think someone without faith or belief in the Word of God would be justified by God? Why do you waste time thinking of ridiculous questions? There is no salvation outside of Christ. Jesus said "NO one comes to the father but by me."
Faith in the WORD of GOD

You mean faith in CHRIST right
Faith in all GOD's PROMISES to those who believe in and look to HIM as their HOPE that all who believe in HIM
have life and HE will raise them up on the last day

Right

that is what you meant when you said faith in GOD's WORD
You meant faith in JESUS
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
Maybe not to get into an argument I will ask you this: Do you belief that people were saved by keeping the law in the OT, and if so why?
No I dont
i believe the LAW was put in place to lead us to THE SON from
the beginning

that is why when HE reopens the eyes of HIS FIRST LOVE and they look upon the ONE whom they have pierced, they will understand

though some will mourn as for an only son, others will go out like calves released from their stalls when HE removes the yoke burden of their guilt and sin and opens up a fountain to the inhabitants of David for purificatuon


then they'll understand


these discussions amongst those who have the meat of HIS WORD,who are fat and filled confuse those baby little lambs trailing behind who haven't first drunk the milk of HIS WORD

and that milk is the TRUTH of THE GOOD NEWS through faith in CHRIST
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
Ezekiel 34 comes to mind

we're supposed to feed HIS lambs

but here we are feeding ourselves when we admit that we have already been fed

and that not by men
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
This is not a typical preaching arena
there are other baby ears listening in and this discussion causes confusion to those little ears who need to hear what alone we were called to preach
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
It is said,(we really know until we can ask HaShem) That HaShem was speaking for Jerusalem. I really don't see as we can say this isn't true, as the Word does say Jerusalem is the apple of His eye. Add that to the fact that when looking at prophecy, (keep in ind I am not one to say I understand that much) we can see that Israel is His time peace. So yes it vary likely that He started it when the sun was setting over Israel.
Exactly!

And again, it's not a big deal,

God set apart the seventh day that begins at sunset in Israel.

if we want to honor the Sabbath like God did,

that's the day we would want to honor.