the two witnesses are God the Father and the Holy Spirit

[prove-all]

No they did not believe that! For if they did, logic follow that they new He was telling the truth, and that He really was sent from heaven. They thought he was an insurrectionist and a liar and that He had a demon.

Nicodemus was given a position by the romans,
he came in secret so he would not lose his job


1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that
thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that
thou doest, except God be with him.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord,
wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

​

Hmm (I know the feeling) that's why they killed Him. Take heed when all men speak well of you.

Better the blows of a friend than the kisses of the enemy!
Thanks

are you claiming I am an enemy for not agreeing with you?
where have I ever said anything rude or out of place?

 

[miknik5]

you would be mistaken, nothing past Rev 11:12
has anything to do with the two witnesses doing anything

Right! Because, in fact, GOD calls these two men to "come up here"...in Rev 11:12...
then judgment and wrath begin.
And even in this, GOD still holds out HIS ARM of SALVATION by sending HIS ANGELS to preach (the last time) the EVERLASTING GOSPEL...

 

[miknik5]

No they did not believe that! For if they did, logic follow that they new He was telling the truth, and that He really was sent from heaven. They thought he was an insurrectionist and a liar and that He had a demon. Hmm (I know the feeling) that's why they killed Him. Take heed when all men speak well of you.

Better the blows of a friend than the kisses of the enemy!
Thanks

Prove-all is right.
That is exactly what they thought.
The jews thought that Jesus would overthrow roman rule and oppression and set up HIS "here and now kingdom"...
But, HIS KINGDOM is not of this world...in fact, HE came to bring the two men together and make them ONE in HIMSELF>

THAT'S THE KINGDOM...and that is being built up even now..
When all has been accomplished, when HE has put the last of HIS enemies under HIM, then will the Kingdom be handed over to THE FATHER so that GOD may be all and in all.

Right now GOD is not all and is not IN all...

Which is why THE GOSPEL is being preached...and which is why THE DOOR unto the KINGDOM, all must enter in by way of THE SON who is THE DOOR unto the KINGDOM

 

[badger58]

..for it is GOD who worketh in you to will and to do HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

Aren't we GOD'S WORKMANSHIP created in CHRIST JESUS unto good works which HE prepared in advance that we should walk in?

That would explain why John was told to prophecy again...and was given the very scroll of (lamentations) to eat...
Do you know better than John concerning the Two Witnesses then?

Should we listen to you or to GOD'S WORD by HIS SPIRIT?

The very theme of Isaiah 1-8 is not to put your hopes in a man of what account are men?
Therefore, those who HOPE in CHRIST aren't their faith in and on HIM sufficient to save?

At last hallelujah you have written something that I can say Amen to!
I think I detect a pattern developing. Use more scripture and we can get along just fine miknik5 God bless you!

 

[badger58]

Nicodemus was given a position by the romans,
he came in secret so he would not lose his job


1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that
thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that
thou doest, except God be with him.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord,
wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

​

are you claiming I am an enemy for not agreeing with you?
where have I ever said anything rude or out of place?

If you count Jesus as your Lord and savior and soon coming King then we are friends, and more than that, we are brothers, and more than that, we are heirs to His glorious Kingdom. I look forward to seeing you there brother.

 

[badger58]

Nicodemus was given a position by the romans,
he came in secret so he would not lose his job


1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that
thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that
thou doest, except God be with him.

When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord,
wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

​

are you claiming I am an enemy for not agreeing with you?
where have I ever said anything rude or out of place?

Nicodemus was a secret follower of Jesus and His disciples certainly believed He was telling the truth about where he came from and the Spirit led Him. That's why they asked about the kingdom.
It's obvious by the questions at Jesus's trial, they did not believe him.
Two different groups of people. Lambs and goats. I agree with you, if you can see my point.

 

[miknik5]

If you count Jesus as your Lord and savior and soon coming King then we are friends, and more than that, we are brothers, and more than that, we are heirs to His glorious Kingdom. I look forward to seeing you there brother.

Who again are the two witnesses? Are they, still to you, GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT?
And how do you separate GOD from the HOLY SPIRIT.
Or CHRIST, for that matter?

You have made 3 in Heaven as 3 separate beings...and that is NOT what THE WORD of GOD testifies to...

 

[badger58]

Who again are the two witnesses? Are they, still to you, GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT?
And how do you separate GOD from the HOLY SPIRIT.
Or CHRIST, for that matter?

You have made 3 in Heaven as 3 separate beings...and that is NOT what THE WORD of GOD testifies to...

I have already addressed this in a previous posting. I believe you find the answer there.
I still have not heard an answer to this underpinning question. I'm trying to help you out. If you can answer this, then you can drop the whole building because it is holding up the structure.

How can the two witnesses be the source of the oil that anoints the golden lampstand(Jesus) how can the two witnesses be the source of streams of fire? This is different than calling down fire, even the false prophet does that. Please anyone...

 

[badger58]

Who again are the two witnesses? Are they, still to you, GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT?
And how do you separate GOD from the HOLY SPIRIT.
Or CHRIST, for that matter?

You have made 3 in Heaven as 3 separate beings...and that is NOT what THE WORD of GOD testifies to...

Are you sure about that? There are hundreds of books on this subject, the trinity. It's not a simple thing are you saying you don't believe in the trinity?

 

[prove-all]

1 John 5:7 There are 3 that bare witness in heaven.

If you disagree, please be kind and explain why you think I'm off course.

-
this verse has been added to the bible around the 4th century,
it was not inspired by the Holy spirit, but was added by a monk.


so I think we should not use that verse at all as a witness or proof.

 

[prove-all]

In Isaiah 55:1 and John 7:37-39, [the waters] are a symbol of the Holy Spirit.

 

[miknik5]

I have already addressed this in a previous posting. I believe you find the answer there.
I still have not heard an answer to this underpinning question. I'm trying to help you out. If you can answer this, then you can drop the whole building because it is holding up the structure.

How can the two witnesses be the source of the oil that anoints the golden lampstand(Jesus) how can the two witnesses be the source of streams of fire? This is different than calling down fire, even the false prophet does that. Please anyone...

The same way that the witnesses today testify of JESUS...
For how did you overlook that Jesus already identified the Golden Lampstands as THE CHURCH in Revelation 1 and HE is THE SOURCE.

and apart from HIM...nothing...

 

[miknik5]

Are you sure about that? There are hundreds of books on this subject, the trinity. It's not a simple thing are you saying you don't believe in the trinity?

Ohh I most certainly do.
and the three are ONE...
For as CHRIST said HE and THE FATHER are ONE.
And I know there aren't two HOLY SPIRITS in Heaven
And I know that it is only through CHRIST we have access to THE FATHER by ONE SPIRIT.

 

[miknik5]

In Isaiah 55:1 and John 7:37-39, [the waters] are a symbol of the Holy Spirit.

LIVING WATER.
John 4

 

[prove-all]

40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is [not mine] to give;
but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

Will the two witnesses be given this?

- the bible does not say, Jesus can not give those positions,
but God will decide who will sit on Christs side.

[if] God was one of the witnesses,

do you think God will choice himself to sit on Christs side?
is not [Christ] sitting on the right side of God right now?
till his enemys become his footstool.

so that this theroy God dies, would it meen he [God the father ] gets demoted?

 

[miknik5]

At last hallelujah you have written something that I can say Amen to!
I think I detect a pattern developing. Use more scripture and we can get along just fine miknik5 God bless you!

That was in response to your truncating that we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling...I agree...but I also agree that this is ALL GOD'S WORK...HE calls whom HE calls and prepares whom HE calls by giving gifts of HIS SPIRIT to do what HE has called us to do...and what HE has called us to do is to witness to THE TRUTH of HIS SON...and the HIDDEN WISDOM of GOD made known to all men which is CHRIST and the MESSAGE of THE CROSS...which to some is foolishness but to those who believe it is the POWER OF GOD...and those who believe are kept by GOD'S POWER and FAITHFULNESS...for if one has their feet firmly planted on THE ROCK of THEIR SALVATION and does not allow sifting sand to come between their feet and THE FOUNDATION (WHO IS CHRIST) they will not fall...nor will they perish...nor shall they stumble...

 

[badger58]

-
this verse has been added to the bible around the 4th century,
it was not inspired by the Holy spirit, but was added by a monk.


so I think we should not use that verse at all as a witness or proof.

Are you saying that you don't believe in the trinity? The Jews don't believe, the Muslims don't believe. I thought that this was settled by the church fathers at the council of Nicea. It's interesting, I came out of a church that taught that the trinity was doctrine of demons. In fact this is the very reason I escaped. I new that if the trinity were true in the new testament, it would have to show up in the old testament. That's when I first read the vision in Zech 4. I was asking God to prove that the trinity was not an invention of men. I came to this candle stand all of gold and these two olive trees that supplied oil to it. To my surprise, I somehow new this was the answer to my prayer. This was simple, yet beautiful symbol for the trinity. To me this was a revelation from God.

 

[prove-all]

It's obvious by the questions at Jesus's trial, they did not believe him.

-Pilate believed him

19And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross.
And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.

20This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified
was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

21Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not,
The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.



22Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.

 

[miknik5]

Are you saying that you don't believe in the trinity? The Jews don't believe, the Muslims don't believe. I thought that this was settled by the church fathers at the council of Nicea. It's interesting, I came out of a church that taught that the trinity was doctrine of demons. In fact this is the very reason I escaped. I new that if the trinity were true in the new testament, it would have to show up in the old testament. That's when I first read the vision in Zech 4. I was asking God to prove that the trinity was not an invention of men. I came to this candle stand all of gold and these two olive trees that supplied oil to it. To my surprise, I somehow new this was the answer to my prayer. This was simple, yet beautiful symbol for the trinity. To me this was a revelation from God.

Badger, Please look into :

Haggai 2, Ezra 3 and Zechariah 4 with regards to....THE...FOUNDATION...

Please review those three together and you might understand that "THE TEMPLE" being built is in THE BODY of HIS SON who is both the FOUNDATION and the HEAD of HIS BODY..
It's HIS BODY...and as such, HE is able to direct the "members" of HIS BODY as HE chooses...

All were called into ONE...and that IS CHRIST...for GOD, in a sense is "marrying" children to HIMSELF through, in and by HIS SON who alone will present back to HIS FATHER, HIS BODY/HIS BRIDE/HIS CHURCH.

GOD in HIS WORD to Haggai, Ezra and Zechariah told us to PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION to THE FOUNDATION

That's why there will be a mixed emotional outburst at the siting of the earthly temple:
Some will cry out in awesome adoration while others will mourn as for an only son.
That's why in Haggai 2, GOD asks the earthly high priests the question about "meat" being clean or unclean and declared all unclean before HIM
That's why the SON alone will build for HIS FATHER, HIS HOUSE
that's why Zerubabbel's hand will lay THE FOUNDATION and HIS hand will complete it.

 

[badger58]

That was in response to your truncating that we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling...I agree...but I also agree that this is ALL GOD'S WORK...HE calls whom HE calls and prepares whom HE calls by giving gifts of HIS SPIRIT to do what HE has called us to do...and what HE has called us to do is to witness to THE TRUTH of HIS SON...and the HIDDEN WISDOM of GOD made known to all men which is CHRIST and the MESSAGE of THE CROSS...which to some is foolishness but to those who believe it is the POWER OF GOD...and those who believe are kept by GOD'S POWER and FAITHFULNESS...for if one has their feet firmly planted on THE ROCK of THEIR SALVATION and does not allow sifting sand to come between their feet and THE FOUNDATION (WHO IS CHRIST) they will not fall...nor will they perish...nor shall they stumble...

You quoted the perfect verse: This is the word of the Lord unto Zarrababbel: Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit!
And this quote is pointing right to the two olive trees and the golden lamp stand. This is how I understand the three in one nature of the Godhead. One in purpose, one in cooperation, one in love. Jesus prayed for all of the night before His passion, that we would be one as He was one with the Father and the Holy Spirit.