The Woman Goes into the Wilderness and Returns as the Harlot

Pilgrimshope · Mar 4, 2022

I’m really not understanding what you are saying you think we’re living in heaven now ? And we don’t have to overcome the world ?

this is an instruction to believers Tom e church on earth

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re in a spiritual war while we live in earth not a physical war but by the spirit given of God through Christ we need to understand we are in a conflict with the ruler of this world remember christs kingdom is not of this world , we war according to the gospel of the kingdom the word of the spirit against the enemy who is trying to destroy us spiritually on earth

this isn’t an instruction for those in heaven

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s already been cast out of heaven . it’s an instruction for the inhabitants of the earth who believe the gospel each of us as we have our earthly lifespan

We can overcome the enemy of course by the spirit that was given when Christ was seated on the throne

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Christ was enthroned in heaven he sent the Holy Spirit into the earth into our hearts. This doesn’t mean we now don’t exist in earth or we don’t have to stand against the enemy , it means now we’re capable to overcome him and be received into the kingdom where Christ is seated now

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is victory to be had but we are as long as we are in the body at war with the enemy the devil whos only recourse after Christ was seated on the throne is to war against this group on earth

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s at war with the church on earth trying to stop us from inheriting the kingdom

are you thinking heaven isn’t an actual place ?

Journeyman · Mar 4, 2022

Aaron56 said:

It's not non sequitur, because the womans' seed are those who have the testimony of Jesus and keep his word. The problem is, you think people who turn back were ever counted by God as his people,

Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Mt.7:22-23

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

I’m really not understanding what you are saying you think we’re living in heaven now ? And we don’t have to overcome the world ?

this is an instruction to believers Tom e church on earth

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re in a spiritual war while we live in earth not a physical war but by the spirit given of God through Christ we need to understand we are in a conflict with the ruler of this world remember christs kingdom is not of this world , we war according to the gospel of the kingdom the word of the spirit against the enemy who is trying to destroy us spiritually on earth

this isn’t an instruction for those in heaven

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s already been cast out of heaven . it’s an instruction for the inhabitants of the earth who believe the gospel each of us as we have our earthly lifespan

We can overcome the enemy of course by the spirit that was given when Christ was seated on the throne

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Christ was enthroned in heaven he sent the Holy Spirit into the earth into our hearts. This doesn’t mean we now don’t exist in earth or we don’t have to stand against the enemy , it means now we’re capable to overcome him and be received into the kingdom where Christ is seated now

“Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there is victory to be had but we are as long as we are in the body at war with the enemy the devil whos only recourse after Christ was seated on the throne is to war against this group on earth

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he’s at war with the church on earth trying to stop us from inheriting the kingdom

are you thinking heaven isn’t an actual place ?

The rightful heir to the kingdom was killed without sin. Death had no right to keep Him and Hell had no right to be His dwelling place. They had to forfeit their authority: their keys. Then, God raised Him as a life-giving spirit so that all who reckon themselves dead would be co-heirs with Him

Heaven is not the kingdom. His kingdom will have no end. Heaven has an end. The heaven of God currently preserves the eternal kingdom principles along with its Principal, but the power and authority vests within Christ who is within us who are alive on the earth and in heaven. This is what He gained by His death: the right to include all who receive Him, in Him.

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God…”

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

Journeyman said:

The church and the kingdom are distinct. Many are called (out) but few are chosen. This is a choosing of their own.

Consider the parable of the Sower.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Do they not last a short time? And how can they ”fall away” if they were never part? Choked if they never had breath?

They were called out (ecclesia) but did not continue. Now, consider the offspring of the Woman. And consider how they make deals with the world systems today.

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

JStates said:

Something of interest. Maybe I'm reading into this.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

That number 1,260 is interesting. It's perfectly divisible by 7. 1260 / 7 = 180. Is this 180 a Biblical span of years? If so...

Those Puritans who separated from the Church of England were known as separatists, and a group of separatist Puritans known as Pilgrims founded Plymouth Plantation in Cape Cod Bay in 1620. Although it was not the first English colony in North America, Plymouth Colony was the first religious settlement. -classroom.synonym.com

Peregrine White was the first child born to the Pilgrims, circa November 20, 1620. The exact day of his birth is unknown.

1620 + 180 = 1800

November 17, 1800. The Congress of the United States meets in Washington, DC for the first time.

The colonial era is over and the American Empire is on the rise.

Interesting

Pilgrimshope · Mar 4, 2022

Aaron56 said:

yeah I know he gave believers the power to become sons of God not the right but the power to become

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m asking is do you believe that Christ is in heaven on his throne at the right hand of God ? And do you believe those who passed through the world are with him ?

I’m not asking if the Holy Ghost was given to us who believe in earth , I’m asking do you believe this is the case

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christs kingdom will have no end that’s true it doesn’t end when he returns to earth and makes all things new though. Remember this part is already happening

“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭110:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ is already seated it’s why he was taken up to heaven until the earth is ended. Until he returns to earth and restores everything

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You see in revelation when Christ is taken up and seated as ruler ?

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is going to be the case in heaven until this day when that same son of man whomis tonrule with the rod of iron returns from heaven having all thkngs brought under his rule whether good or evil evil being bound and judged and good being redeemed to eternal life with him

“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:11-12, 14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ came once to the earth born as a man to offer salvation and bear our sins after he was raised up he was taken up to sit on David’s throne in heaven where he then sent the Holy Spirit from heaven into all the earth for believers. So they can overcome the war Satan is waging on us in earth it’s why we see the beast rise up in revelation looking like the dragon and serving his Will warring against the saints on earth

Christ will return as a raging lion coming with fire and destruction gathering his people who are still living on earth just beforehand we are living in the time between him being taken into heaven and his return from heaven during that time the dragon is waging a spiritual war against us on earth who believe trying to deceive us and blind us to the gospel of the kingdom

He’s already on his throne in heaven we are now waiting for this day

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as they witnessed him go up one day Christians will witness him return

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the child who goes up in chaoter 12 is the one who returns in chaoter 19

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

Of course. He is also resident within us who believe. His body is in heaven and on the earth. He is Jacobs Ladder upon whom angels ascend and descend. We are included in those angels (messengers). In the old and new Testaments messengers have been called up to God to witness things to bring back to the earth. He bridges the gap between the eternal and temporal for those who are in Him. We presently have authority over the darkness else we would have no power over the demonic. This also confirms our names are recorded in heaven even though we are on the earth.

The kingdom HAS COME to those who are in Christ. It will come to all the earth at the 2nd coming. We do not presently take vengeance upon anyone because it is not the time. When the time has come it will be the prayers of the saints that are hurled to the earth in judgement. Furthermore, for us, the Lord Jesus has already been revealed to us from heaven, it was the Father who has completed this. And we have the Holy Spirit that confirms our place within the House of God.

Again, the child, Christ, is corporate, not a singular Jesus. We are His flesh and bones. This is not theater but a reality.

My brother, perhaps we are at an impasse on this issue. I do not want to appear divided so I cede the thread to you. You love the Truth. That sanctifies you for the work of the Lord.

Grace and Peace,
Aaron

Pilgrimshope · Mar 4, 2022

Aaron56 said:

“Of course. He is also resident within us who believe. His body is in heaven and on the earth. He is Jacobs Ladder upon whom angels ascend and descend. We are included in those angels (messengers).”

amen I think understand a bit more what your saying now !! Thanks for bearing with me and explaining.

reality and theater lol not sure what the point there is I’m. It claiming any theater but reality according to what scripture is saying

no I don’t think we’re at an impass and Hope you don’t think we’re arguing I sure didn’t I was trying to understand what you were saying I think I do a bit more now

there should never be any insult or arguing between you and I , but at times it may take awhile to understand what we are saying in a discussion . I like to be able to speak freely , as the other person is to speak freely without risk of offense , it’s never intended .

sometimes I don’t understand how someone is speaking enough to understand exactly what they are saying

I don’t think I’ve ever been offended with anything you’ve said I sometimes don’t understand the words your using to say things or “ how “ you are saying it seems to be the only miscommunication I’m sure it is reciprocal at times

Journeyman · Mar 4, 2022

Aaron56 said:

The woman does continue. She's the good seed in the sower parable.

Aaron56 said:

The offspring of the woman are described this way,

the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev.12:17

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. Gen.1:11

Pilgrimshope · Mar 4, 2022

Aaron56 said:

have you considered revelation in this light

“Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I mean is one example

What is done in heaven

“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is then done on earth

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1, 4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as the war in heaven came to earth , so the kingdom will be the same what’s established in heaven , will be done in earth later as a result of what happened already in heaven

One day heaven and earth will become one world again with those in heaven populating the new earth until then the kingdom is in heaven and we are connected to Jesus by the spirit but the war is now in our world

when we pass away we’re going to be present with him in heaven until then we have a war we’re involved in a spiritual one

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6-8‬ ‭

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“Of course. He is also resident within us who believe. His body is in heaven and on the earth. He is Jacobs Ladder upon whom angels ascend and descend. We are included in those angels (messengers).”

amen I think understand a bit more what your saying now !! Thanks for bearing with me and explaining.

reality and theater lol not sure what the point there is I’m. It claiming any theater but reality according to what scripture is saying

no I don’t think we’re at an impass and Hope you don’t think we’re arguing I sure didn’t I was trying to understand what you were saying I think I do a bit more now

there should never be any insult or arguing between you and I , but at times it may take awhile to understand what we are saying in a discussion . I like to be able to speak freely , as the other person is to speak freely without risk of offense , it’s never intended .

sometimes I don’t understand how someone is speaking enough to understand exactly what they are saying

I don’t think I’ve ever been offended with anything you’ve said I sometimes don’t understand the words your using to say things or “ how “ you are saying it seems to be the only miscommunication I’m sure it is reciprocal at times

This is good, my friend.

Aaron56 · Mar 4, 2022

Journeyman said:

Ah, yes. I did not deal with this yet.

This is the children of the harlot:

"Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

TMS · Mar 5, 2022

Aaron56 said:

The women and the harlot need identifying

The corrupt woman is the corrupt church and the woman in the wilderness is Gods church.

Revelation 12 is basically the narrative account of a beautiful, sun-clad woman and her descendants. (Revelation 12:1).

Here we are introduced to one of the most familiar symbols in the Bible. In both the Old and the New Testaments, God represents His people by a woman. As the bridegroom, He is married to the church. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:2).

All through the Bible we can follow the record of this symbolism. God said in the Old Testament, “I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2). And again, “Say unto Zion, Thou art my people” (Isaiah 51:16). The church is called Zion and God compares it with a beautiful woman. In the Old Testament, Israel was the chosen people so often portrayed as being married to God.

In the New Testament, the true Israel of God is no longer a nation but a church composed of Jews and Gentiles who receive Christ as their Saviour. If a pure woman is Gods church then the corrupt woman is the corrupt church.

With no direct access to Jesus, (Jesus defeated the devil and rose from the dead), the dragon (Rome) now turned his anger against the followers of Christ, the church: “And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child” (Revelation 12:13).

These words provide only a tiny hint of the horror of the violence which broke forth against the apostolic church. Practically all the early disciples and church leaders were martyred for their faith. Cruel pagan emperors turned the sporting arenas and coliseums into theatres of death for those who followed the true gospel.

Soon pagan Rome yielded to papal Rome, and the persecutions continued with even greater force. Millions died under the terrible inquisitions which sought to eradicate all opposition to the papal system. Historians estimate that during the Dark Ages more that fifty million people laid down their lives rather than yield up their Protestant faith.

“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.” Revelation 12:14

In order to escape extinction, the faithful Protestant refugees fled back into the Alpine mountains and valleys holding onto the true doctrine delivered by Jesus. Another book of Acts could be written about the heroism of the Waldenses, Huguenots, and Albigenses who refused to surrender their faith during those centuries of fierce oppression. God fought for them, and sometimes the pursuing armies of Rome were cut off by mysterious avalanches and rock slides. At other times the mountain streams were reddened by the blood of those faithful ones who sealed their devotion to the truth with their lives. The Revelation prophecy gives a symbolic picture of the desperate attempts made to wipe out those minority Christians who were now in hiding for their very survival: “And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood” (Revelation 12:15).

The 3 and a half year time period is mentioned seven times in the books of Daniel and Revelation (Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14; 13:5): three times as a “time, times, and half a time”; twice as 42 months; and twice as 1,260 days. Based on the 30-day calendar used by the Jews, these time periods are all the same amount of time: 3½ years = 42 months = 1,260 days.

One prophetic day equals one literal year (Ezekiel 4:6; Numbers 14:34)

History tells us what happened and it fits perfectly with this description.

Here is a fascinating point of history. In a.d. 538 a decree by Emperor Justinian went into effect which assigned absolute spiritual preeminence to the church of Rome. Gradually, this religious tyranny drifted into union with civil powers until eventually kings were forced to seek permission from the pope before they could begin to rule. This authority remained in force until the year 1798 when Europe was rocked by the French Revolution. In the subsequent rebellion of the oppressed peasants against the privileged clergy, the pope was captured in 1798. The papal property was confiscated, and the French Directory government decreed that there would be no more Bishop of Rome. The oppressive rule of the papacy ended exactly 1,260 years after it was inaugurated in A.D. 538.

It all fits perfectly.. It was prophesised, and now it is fulfilled prophecy. More reason to believe the word.

Journeyman · Mar 5, 2022

Aaron56 said:

It's no secret that Our Lord taught repentance,

And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Lk.13:2-3

Pilgrimshope · Mar 5, 2022

TMS said:

this is a prophecy of Jerusalem the city of God and capitol of Israel who was expecting the messiah the son of man to be born and raised up to the throne at Gods right hand she began as beautiful wearing a crown

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-‭KJV‬‬

the original israel. Jacob and his wife and sons before they went into Egypt

“And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.( Joseph the 12th son )

And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I ( sun) and thy mother (moon) and thy brethren ( 12 stars) indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭37:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Consider isreals story and Gods lament for them

“Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

Then washed I thee with water; yea, I thoroughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

( now watch how she changed into a harlot )

But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon…..

And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God) Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.

Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.

Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord:

( now watch his judgement upon them )

Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these things; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon thine head, saith the Lord God: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:1-2, 8-18, 23, 25-26, 28-32, 35-40, 43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the garments of the beautiful women changed to diverse colors

“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And her judgement

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭

Revelation is uncovering Old Testament prophecy the woman is Israel when she began , the man child is the messiah son of man , being taken up to the throne , the woman whomisnoursued into the desert is isreal bekng scattered into the world and the whore having changed her clothes holding a cup of her fornications , riding on the beast is showing israels worship of all the nations gods around her through the Old Testament.

Jesus was promosed to israel to be born , to rule with a rod of iron and be taken to the throne in heaven , israel was foretold to be recognized as a harlot me be left desolate for her fornications

the church in that chapter is here

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the rest of the children who have Jesus testimony and keep his commandments

You can find every chapter of johns vision in ot prophecy clearly

Aaron56 · Mar 5, 2022

When Adam blamed God for Eve deceiving him, this seed of corruption was planted in her soul and in the earth. One generation later the woman, through birth, exclaims that she finally has a man: her son Cain. Cain grows in jealousy and corruption, doing what he thinks is right his own mind in the site of God: lawlessness. This manifests in murder and ultimately genocide as all of Abel’s lineage perished with his death.

Israel and the Jews were a shadow of the kingdom that has come in Christ, one where there is no respect of persons, nationality, or status or lineage. The woman in Revelation 17 is the ultimate expression of the desolate mind that opposes God. She has had many forms, leading back to Eve. We may note how those with promise fall from God’s grace in the example of Israel, but this is not Israel in Revelation. Thematically, all is coming to a head in these times and in the book. The harlot, who we see, is the final and most complete expression of the corrupt woman who once had promise in God but chose to make her bed with the rulers of this world.

ewq1938 · Mar 6, 2022

Is the woman in Revelation 12 also the harlot of Revelation 17?

No.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This is obviously Christ and Babylon the harlot did not birth him.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

God prepared a place of safety for this woman. God does not do this for the harlot.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

The devil wants to persecute this woman. Clearly she cannot be the harlot.

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Again she can go to place of safety God prepared for her plus the Earth helps her.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The Dragon (the devil) is angry at the woman. She is no ally of his. Babylon the harlot already exists at the time that this woman exists and she will ride upon the ten horned beast that is part of the Great Tribulation war verse 12:16 speaks about. The other, Godly woman is safe in the wilderness while Babylon consorts with the kings of the world.

Aaron56 · Mar 6, 2022

She is not originally the harlot. Just like Israel was not originally the harlot. Those who are called out (church) are destined to be the Bride yet those who leave their first love and embrace the world’s system will become the harlot. It has happened and it’s happening.

As a corollary: have you taken note of how easily the world can shut off a person’s ability to buy and sell? The Canadian truck drivers… and now the entire nation of Russia.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 6, 2022

ewq1938 said:

israel and the messiah

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: …And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel’s persecution that followed

“And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Israel’s scattering into the nations away from the persecutions of Rome

“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The beast rises up in the dragons image

“And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we see later in the wilderness the beast has caught up to the woman who fled into the wilderness and corrupted her changed her beauty and garments like the prophets foretold

“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:3-4‬ ‭

It’s the story of Israel’s adulteries and fornications with other gods that the prophets were all clearly fortelling. Israel Began as beautiful made so by God and his choosing of them to be his “bride “ but they broke his covenant and worshipped all the many gods of the nations again and again and again

the imagery of a whore comes from that israel prostitutes he selves to other gods and Gods word is what calls then a harlot , a whore , saying thier work was as a wife who committed adultery against her husband the world of an insatiable harlot

it’s written in prophecy consistently over and over

Here’s parts of yet another pertaining to Samaria and also Jerusalem

“And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours, Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses. Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself.

Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her. Wherefore I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, upon whom she doted.

And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms.

Then I saw that she was defiled, that they took both one way, And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw men portrayed upon the wall, the images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion, And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: then my mind was alienated from her, like as my mind was alienated from her sister.

Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. Thus thou calledst to remembrance the lewdness of thy youth, in bruising thy teats by the Egyptians for the paps of thy youth.

Therefore, O Aholibah, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will raise up thy lovers against thee, from whom thy mind is alienated, and I will bring them against thee on every side;… And they shall come against thee with chariots, wagons, and wheels, and with an assembly of people, which shall set against thee buckler and shield and helmet round about: and I will set judgment before them, and they shall judge thee according to their judgments.

And I will set my jealousy against thee, and they shall deal furiously with thee: they shall take away thy nose and thine ears; and thy remnant shall fall by the sword: they shall take thy sons and thy daughters; and thy residue shall be devoured by the fire.

They shall also strip thee out of thy clothes, and take away thy fair jewels.

For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated: And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.

I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand. Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

The Lord said moreover unto me; Son of man, wilt thou judge Aholah and Aholibah? yea, declare unto them their abominations; That they have committed adultery, and blood is in their hands, and with their idols have they committed adultery, and have also caused their sons, whom they bare unto me, to pass for them through the fire, to devour them.

Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

And furthermore, that ye have sent for men to come from far, unto whom a messenger was sent; and, lo, they came: for whom thou didst wash thyself, paintedst thy eyes, and deckedst thyself with ornaments, And satest upon a stately bed, and a table prepared before it, whereupon thou hast set mine incense and mine oil.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭23:3-9, 11, 13-14, 17-19, 21-26, 28-31, 33, 36-38, 40-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

anyone familiar with prophecy won’t have any question who the woman is and that she bacame a harlot that’s what revelation is uncovering of the message hidden in prophecy. You can find the whole vision in the ot

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we take in the ot writings we will better understand the New Testament words . The Old Testament tells a story israel chosen and exalted by God , thier part was to constantly worship false gods while rejecting the true God who chose them. This is where the imagery of a beautiful woman who becomes a harlot having changed her garments me shoes up holding a cup filled with her fornications

Diakonos · Mar 15, 2022

Dino246 said:

Because the woman (The Mother of Harlots who ) will deceive all the nations of the earth (Rev 14:8, 18:3, 23).

The Woman Goes into the Wilderness and Returns as the Harlot

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