There will be no Rapture!!!

[cv5]

Now you are saying I am lost because Scripture states Saint will not suffer God's wrath.
The tribulation is not God's wrath.
Maybe I should report you.

First of all, I deeply apologize. You were right.
And I agree 100% with you. You must understand this. I AGREE WITH YOU that you WILL go thru the 7 year tribulation.

Just to be clear: This wrath buddy. Right here. God's tribulation wrath.
Which is EXACTLY what you have been testifying about yourself on this thread all along.

Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 15:7
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Tribulation and wrath are two different words with two different meanings.

Study out the similar language (as I've mentioned in past threads) found in both: 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4 "he hath DRAWN BACK [WITHDRAWN] His right hand FROM BEFORE the enemy [i.e. lifting His restraint, basically saying, "HAVE AT 'EM!"];




And my question to you would be, WHEN do you believe the war in Ezekiel 38-39 takes place?;
My view is that it is a PART of the "SECOND SEAL Wars" fairly early in the Trib (first year or [nearly-]two), and that 39:7 has parallel wording to that which we read about Joseph's Famine, the parallel wording to this in Gen45:1[,6], where verse 1 says, "And there STOOD NO MAN WITH him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO his BRETHREN"... when there were "YET 5 yrs" remaining in the "7 year famine"... (now read Ezek39:7... and the outcome of this particular war); Notice especially the "WRATH" words used in Ezek38:18-19; and that Israel is once again called by Him "MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" in 39:7 (see Rom9:26 ['future tense'] about Israel, and Hosea 1:10-11, same). Ezek38-39 mentions both the "7 years" of their burning the weapons, and the "7 months" of burying the dead.

 

[cv5]

Behold:

I have apologized and agree with the post-tribbers that they WILL SUFFER THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION of Revelation ch 6-18.

That is what they have believed, this is their testimony this is their plea and desire. And I agree with them that as their faith is so be it unto them.

In fact, this is the VERY DEFINITION OF A POST-TRIBBER! They WILL be suffering the devastations of the wrath of God upon the world along with everyone else.

If any post-tribber would like to correct me in these my assertions please do so.

 

[DRobinson]

First of all, I deeply apologize. You were right.
And I agree 100% with you. You must understand this. I AGREE WITH YOU that you WILL go thru the 7 year tribulation.

Just to be clear: This wrath buddy. Right here. God's tribulation wrath.
Which is EXACTLY what you have been testifying about yourself on this thread all along.

Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17
For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 15:7
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Rev 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

So you accept the statement of the evil men of this world that is recorded in Rev.6:16.
Sad but not surprised.

 

[cv5]

Study out the similar language (as I've mentioned in past threads) found in both: 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4 "he hath DRAWN BACK [WITHDRAWN] His right hand FROM BEFORE the enemy [i.e. lifting His restraint, basically saying, "HAVE AT 'EM!"];




And my question to you would be, WHEN do you believe the war in Ezekiel 38-39 takes place?;
My view is that it is a PART of the "SECOND SEAL Wars" fairly early in the Trib (first year or [nearly-]two), and that 39:7 has parallel wording to that which we read about Joseph's Famine, the parallel wording to this in Gen45:1[,6], where verse 1 says, "And there STOOD NO MAN WITH him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO his BRETHREN"... when there were "YET 5 yrs" remaining in the "7 year famine"... (now read Ezek39:7... and the outcome of this particular war); Notice especially the "WRATH" words used in Ezek38:18-19; and that Israel is once again called by Him "MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" in 39:7 (see Rom9:26 ['future tense'] about Israel, and Hosea 1:10-11, same). Ezek38-39 mentions both the "7 years" of their burning the weapons, and the "7 months" of burying the dead.

Great insight there bro. Credit to you for bringing me into the DOLT Ezek 38 camp much obliged.

 

[cv5]

So you accept the statement of the evil men of this world that is recorded in Rev.6:16.

Yes you are going thru the 7 tribulation. I apologize and totally agree with you. Sorry about that.
You will suffer along WITH THE EVIL MEN OF THIS WORLD, so noted in Rev 6:16.
And with all of the other wicked who refuse to believe.

Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 15:7
And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[presidente]

You keep leaving out a very important part of that passage (v.9), which says, "Who [identifying them] SHALL BE [FUTURE tense] punished with everlasting destruction FROM the presence of the Lord, and FROM the glory of His power [10 WHEN He comes TO BE... and TO BE...]"

How do you think this helps your case? Jesus hasn't come back yet. The punishment of unbelievers is set in the future. How do you think any of the underlined words support what you are saying?

What is your point?

"rest/repose with us IN THE REVELATION OF the Lord Jesus from heaven with His MIGHTY angels in FLAMING fire INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON them that know not God, and that obey/hearken not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (same persons that 2Th2:10-12 speaks of);

1) the underlined ^ is speaking of a SPANS OF TIME, parallel to:

You are asserting this is 'spans of time'. Where does it say that. The passage tells us that this happens when Jesus comes. This is what we can expect when Jesus comes back. Your theory has Jesus coming, doing some of the stuff in the passage, going back, coming back here an doing some of the other stuff. That doesn't fit the wording of the passage.

Positing 'spans of time' doesn't change what the passage says will happen when other stuff is happening when Jesus comes back.

Then after the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" (think: "7 angels" with Trumpets, and "7 angels" with Vials --over SOME TIME), THEN this Thess passage goes on to say, "9 WHO [identifying them] SHALL BE [future tense to that stuff, i.e. AT HIS SECOND COMING to the earth point in time] punished with everlasting punishment AWAY-FROM the presence of the Lord and AWAY-FROM the glory of His power" (NO "BLESSED" MK age FOR THEM!!!)

He executes vengeance when He comes. Are you trying to change that to mean He will inflict vengeance before He comes, even though it says it will occur when He comes to be glorified in the saints? I am not sure I get what you are trying to say, and the italics, caps, underlines, and brackets seem to be distracting from it.

If you are going to change the coming of Christ to some vague time period when He isn't here, why not just be amil?

 

[Omegatime]

I would like cv5 to comment on 2 Thess 2----Peace Brother

2 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come

Is not the Day of the Lord we look forward too? We should know the time of te assembling to meet him? Happens after the antichrist takes his seat in Temple of God. And who is the restrainer?

 

[DRobinson]

Study out the similar language (as I've mentioned in past threads) found in both: 2Th2:7b-8a and Lam2:3-4 "he hath DRAWN BACK [WITHDRAWN] His right hand FROM BEFORE the enemy [i.e. lifting His restraint, basically saying, "HAVE AT 'EM!"];




And my question to you would be, WHEN do you believe the war in Ezekiel 38-39 takes place?;
My view is that it is a PART of the "SECOND SEAL Wars" fairly early in the Trib (first year or [nearly-]two), and that 39:7 has parallel wording to that which we read about Joseph's Famine, the parallel wording to this in Gen45:1[,6], where verse 1 says, "And there STOOD NO MAN WITH him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO his BRETHREN"... when there were "YET 5 yrs" remaining in the "7 year famine"... (now read Ezek39:7... and the outcome of this particular war); Notice especially the "WRATH" words used in Ezek38:18-19; and that Israel is once again called by Him "MY PEOPLE ISRAEL" in 39:7 (see Rom9:26 ['future tense'] about Israel, and Hosea 1:10-11, same). Ezek38-39 mentions both the "7 years" of their burning the weapons, and the "7 months" of burying the dead.

The war mentioned in Ezekiel happens at the second coming of Jesus.
Easy to see if you see the results.
God will not call Israel His people again until they acknowledge His Son as their Messiah and king and this does not happen until Jesus returns.
Why do you insist that tribulation and wrath have the same meaning?

 

[cv5]

disagree.

No, but I do agree with you. I have come around. I really am sorry. My bad.

You WILL be entering into, immersed fully into the experience of suffering the horrors of the 7 year tribulation judgements along with all of the other post-tribbers.

That is the very definition of a post-tribber, correct?

Really, the only remaining question in my mind is this:
Should post-tribbers be aiming to SUFFER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE during the testing of the 7 year tribulation?
Because you must consider that the most pious and zealous post-tribbers would earnestly desire such an outcome. Correct?

 

[cv5]

Where is @selahsays and @BeeBlessed ?

Need their input and advice to my questions.

Thanks everyone and again, I deeply apologize for having the audacity to DENY the post-tribbers their heartfelt desire to enter into the 7 year tribulation wrath.

They will. I now believe that God allow their choice, testimony and proclamation to be realized according to their belief and choice.

Franky, I am embarrassed to deny the post-tribbers their God-given CHOICE to suffer God's tribulation wrath.

 

[DRobinson]

Who says God's wrath has come in Rev.6:16?
It is the ungodly men of this world and you believe them. I do not.
Rev.15:1 is when Jesus returns.
Tribulation and wrath are two different words with two different meanings.
Stop being deceived by these false teachers that claim to be anointed.

So you do you the dreaded red X.

Behold:

I have apologized and agree with the post-tribbers that they WILL SUFFER THE 7 YEAR TRIBULATION of Revelation ch 6-18.

That is what they have believed, this is their testimony this is their plea and desire. And I agree with them that as their faith is so be it unto them.

In fact, this is the VERY DEFINITION OF A POST-TRIBBER! They WILL be suffering the devastations of the wrath of God upon the world along with everyone else.

If any post-tribber would like to correct me in these my assertions please do so.

First there is only 42 months of tribulation not 7 years.
Secondly tribulation and the wrath of God are two different things.
God's wrath is poured out when Jesus returns.
Saints have suffered tribulation since time began.
We are blessed that we have not while many in the world do daily.
But if we continue to live in this flesh until the man of sin comes we will suffer great tribulation
like never before just as Jesus said.
No doubt some more that others.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Who is they?

"They" (per context) are the ones who will be saying "Peace and Safety" when the "SUDDEN" (without-warning) ARRIVAL of the time-period known as "the day of the Lord" (namely the "IN THE NIGHT" segment of it, i.e. the Trib and its JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth [INCLUDING "the man of sin"]) befalls them... "and THEY shall not escape [actively-FLEE-OUT-OF]"...;





What's interesting, is that, just prior to [what many are calling and consider to be] His Second Coming, supposedly at the 7th Trumpet time-slot... just prior to that, what we see in the texts are this, instead:

--at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"... "and great fear fell upon them which saw them... [and]... And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." And then it goes on to say that the "the third woe [associated w/ the 7th Trumpet] cometh quickly"... IOW, these are the things taking place JUST PRIOR TO the "7th Trumpet" events (no one is saying "peace and safety");

--Rev11:18 starts off saying, " And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came..." (but His Second Coming to the earth hasn't taken place yet at this point... just its "pronouncement" being declared); but again, where are any of these texts informing us of anyone saying "PEACE and SAFETY" (especially in the presence of the last 3 Trumpets, connected with the "3 WOES"... and I believe also then the VIALS [7th being "Armageddon"] which lead up to His Second Coming to the earth in Rev19, and which Vials are called "the seven LAST PLAGUES," as well as being said of them, "IN WHICH the WRATH of God IS COMPLETED" [no "peace and safety" being said by the "THEM" in these scenes, that I can see...)

 

[DRobinson]

No, but I do agree with you. I have come around. I really am sorry. My bad.

You WILL be entering into, immersed fully into the experience of suffering the horrors of the 7 year tribulation judgements along with all of the other post-tribbers.

That is the very definition of a post-tribber, correct?

Really, the only remaining question in my mind is this:
Should post-tribbers be aiming to SUFFER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE during the testing of the 7 year tribulation?
Because you must consider that the most pious and zealous post-tribbers would earnestly desire such an outcome. Correct?

Foolish post and question.

 

[ewq1938]

The war mentioned in Ezekiel happens at the second coming of Jesus.
Easy to see if you see the results.

I like the part where the people of Israel come and burn the weapons of the enemy for 7 years but they aren't allowed to use any local wood or trees to help with this fire. Only the enemy weapons are allowed for this fire. There is also mention of if you were robbed then you can rob them back in revenge which is good. I guess there will be near permanent jobs as buriers of that dead army too and if anyone is just passing through the area and sees a dead body and bones, they can leave a flag and the burier people will come and bury the remains. All these people are Israelites as well. Sounds like the second coming alright.

 

[cv5]

Foolish post and question.

I apologize. Sorry.

Can you please answer this question noted in green?

If indeed post-tribbers glory in suffering then this makes perfect sense.
I would like clarification from you the post-trib expert.

Sorry again for asking. And I deeply apologize for the red-X's.

Really, the only remaining question in my mind is this:
Should post-tribbers be aiming to SUFFER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE during the testing of the 7 year tribulation?
Because you must consider that the most pious and zealous post-tribbers would earnestly desire such an outcome. Correct?

 

[DRobinson]

"They" (per context) are the ones who will be saying "Peace and Safety" when the "SUDDEN" (without-warning) ARRIVAL of the time-period known as "the day of the Lord" (namely the "IN THE NIGHT" segment of it, i.e. the Trib and its JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth [INCLUDING "the man of sin"]) befalls them... "and THEY shall not escape [actively-FLEE-OUT-OF]"...;





What's interesting, is that, just prior to [what many are calling and consider to be] His Second Coming, supposedly at the 7th Trumpet time-slot... just prior to that, what we see in the texts are this, instead:

--at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"... "and great fear fell upon them which saw them... [and]... And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." And then it goes on to say that the "the third woe [associated w/ the 7th Trumpet] cometh quickly"... IOW, these are the things taking place JUST PRIOR TO the "7th Trumpet" events (no one is saying "peace and safety");

--Rev11:18 starts off saying, " And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came..." (but His Second Coming to the earth hasn't taken place yet at this point... just its "pronouncement" being declared); but again, where are any of these texts informing us of anyone saying "PEACE and SAFETY" (especially in the presence of the last 3 Trumpets, connected with the "3 WOES"... and I believe also then the VIALS [7th being "Armageddon"] which lead up to His Second Coming to the earth in Rev19, and which Vials are called "the seven LAST PLAGUES," as well as being said of them, "IN WHICH the WRATH of God IS COMPLETED" [no "peace and safety" being said by the "THEM" in these scenes, that I can see...)

They is referring to those in darkness, those lost and persecuting the Saints and happens at the return of Jesus.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

i.e. the Trib and its JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth [INCLUDING "the man of sin"]) befalls them

... by that, I mean that "the man of sin" (and ALL he will do) IS one aspect of the "JUDGMENTS" unfolding upon the earth, in that future specific time-period (we call the Trib)

 

[DRobinson]

I apologize. Sorry.

Can you please answer this question noted in green?

If indeed post-tribbers glory in suffering then this makes perfect sense.
I would like clarification from you the post-trib expert.

Sorry again for asking. And I deeply apologize for the red-X's.

Really, the only remaining question in my mind is this:
Should post-tribbers be aiming to SUFFER AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE during the testing of the 7 year tribulation?
Because you must consider that the most pious and zealous post-tribbers would earnestly desire such an outcome. Correct?

No one wants to suffer and to suggest they do is foolish.
But that does not mean many do not and will suffer.
Daniel was a righteous man but was taken into captive alone with the unrighteous of Israel
You seem to think you are more worthy to escape tribulation than Daniel and those who suffer every day.

 

[DRobinson]

... by that, I mean that "the man of sin" (and ALL he will do) IS one aspect of the "JUDGMENTS" unfolding upon the earth, in that future specific time-period (we call the Trib)

I agree with this statement