If Paul had taught them "post-trib," why would such a claim (2:2) "trouble" them or cause them to be "shaken in mind," and require Paul's second letter, as it would be something to have been fully expected;
If Paul had taught them pre-trib, why would they be troubled? Whatever we being taught did not match with what Paul had already taught them, and Paul had to reteach an clarify.
Pretrib assumes stuff there is no evidence for in scripture--- multiple returns of Christ (or the return of Christ being redefined to mean something that lasts for a period of years or something like that).
There is no reason for me to accepted spinned interpretations that try to make these passages fit with post trib.
Look at the wording of these verses from
II Thessalonians 1
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the
coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
gathering together unto him,
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall
gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Look-- coming of our Lord Jesus Christ is placed first in II Thessalonians, then the gathering together unto Him. In Matthew 24, we see 'Some of man coming' placed first, then the gathering together of his elect.
Matthew 24 sets this 'after the tribulation of those days' and also describes it as 'great tribulation' from which we get that term.
And notice the falling away compared with many being offended and the love of many waxing cold earlier in Matthew 24.
II Thessalonians 2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Matthew 24
10 And then
shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold.
And again Matthew 24 and I Thessalonians 4
Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the
clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with
a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall
gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the
trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be
caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice that I Thessalonians 4 says 'the coming of the Lord'-- not 'one of the comings of the Lord.' We are waiting for the coming of the Lord. Matthew 24 sets the coming of the Son of Man ___after the tribulation, describing it as 'great tribulation.' Both passages describe the trumpet.
ecall, they were already informed (Paul says they "know perfectly") what the day of the Lord is and particularly the manner of its ARRIVAL (1Th5:1-3), so what Paul is supplying in 2Th2 is the sequence concerning "our Rapture" and its relation to the time period known as "the DOTL" (in view of a false claim about it, that is, the false claim about the TIME-PERIOD being already here / present)... and he repeats this sequence 3x in this chpt 2, which agrees with the sequence not only in his previous letter to them, but in all other passages covering this subject as well (e.g. the 24 elders already wearing "stephanous/crowns" which Paul said would be awarded "IN THAT DAY" [not upon death of the Christian], and are wearing the "white himatiois/garments" and are sitting on "thrones" and are saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood OUT-OF EVERY..."[/quote]
The four beasts sing with them. Do you think these cherubim-esque beasts are human also? You are making some huge assumptions. John saw these elders.... at whatever point in time. We might guess 90 something AD, and saw them with the crowns when he saw the vision back then. You assume they are human elders. Do you make that assumption about the beast. And you want to set it in some pre-trib scenario for which you have no evidence from Jesus or Paul's writings, just trying to assume it into this scenario in Revelation. Those are a lot of assumptions.