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I have posted above and below where it all comes from so I won't be accused of falsely making up facts. In fact I posted several sources that clearly say EGW taught salvation by works. She has made numerous statements on this. Do individual SDA members believe differently? Probably, but then they are at odds with the numerous statements EGW made.
EGW taught that the sins we committed before membership in the SDA church will be blotted out but after that, one must behavor, dress, eat, worship on Saturday, etc to be saved.
The above quote says everry man's work. This includes those in the SDA church.
Is this enough proof or do you think I should post more?
EGW taught that the sins we committed before membership in the SDA church will be blotted out but after that, one must behavor, dress, eat, worship on Saturday, etc to be saved.
The above quote says everry man's work. This includes those in the SDA church.
Is this enough proof or do you think I should post more?
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I understand and agree with you. Links are as follows:
Seventh Day Adventism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
It is not letting me post them all. See below for more.
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Here are the rest. You might need to copy and paste them as I am having trouble posting them.
Facts Adventists Won
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Seventh-Day Adventist/deception.htm
Seventh-Day Adventism
Facts Adventists Won
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Religions/Seventh-Day Adventist/deception.htm
Seventh-Day Adventism
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1) Can we agree she is the "principle founder of SDA"? Her writings are considered equal to the bible, so there is no one higher than her in importance to the SDA except God himself.
2) Can you identify another remnant church?
3) Yes, SDA teaches the primacy of the scriptures but they also elevate the words of EGW to the same level as scripture.
4) Not many LDS use the bible Joseph Smith invented either. In fact, The "Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints" use the KJV as a part of their official cannon.
5) I posted several statements by EGW that contradict you. Now in all fairness I did read several SDA sites and they all deny they teach salvation by works and then they added that one should obey the laws of God.
Adventist.org: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church
Seventh Day Adventist
6) Yes, I understand what you are getting at. Can you show me any proof that her prophecies that did not come to pass were "Conditional"?
They didnt have the same fruit... they focusd on the law not love an they saw themself as better then others thats not any friut at all... where as the mormons an sda i know shoq love wn kindness an good will and ect.... an wnswer me this who sounds more christians to you the mormons i visit who accept me with open loving arms even though we have seperate belifs or the guy who judges them an sda ect for having diffrent belifs.
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No, I am not calling you a liar.
Yes, EGW is a co-founder.
Yes, SDA believe in the primacy of the scriptures but the doctrines, such as soul sleep and no such thing as Hell, come directly from EGW primarily and others, as I have stated earlier. A prime example of this is originally, EGW denied the trinity but later got smart and reversed her position. Both her nontrinitarian and trinitarian views became the doctrine of the SDA.
Yes, EGW is a co-founder.
Yes, SDA believe in the primacy of the scriptures but the doctrines, such as soul sleep and no such thing as Hell, come directly from EGW primarily and others, as I have stated earlier. A prime example of this is originally, EGW denied the trinity but later got smart and reversed her position. Both her nontrinitarian and trinitarian views became the doctrine of the SDA.
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Maybe Mormons and Jw's Do.....I don't know enough about them to comment on those......but the SDA... they say they don't teach it and I've never seen an example of them teaching it. If you can just show me an example of them teaching that I'll take it back, I just can't see it personally. The best I've ever seen anyone do is quote something an SDA has said and say that "implies" salvation is based on works. The way I'm looking at it, they're just trying to obey a commandment and are united under that belief and they're catching tons of flak for it that they don't deserve. A lot of times, they're really just keeping these verses in mind.
Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Matthew 5:19
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Like I said though....if you can show me proof they are teaching that I'll gladly thank you and reverse my entire position on it. I'm always down for exposing false teachings and while I think there are some in the SDA.....I don't think the salvation=works argument has any merit.
Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works."
Matthew 5:19
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Like I said though....if you can show me proof they are teaching that I'll gladly thank you and reverse my entire position on it. I'm always down for exposing false teachings and while I think there are some in the SDA.....I don't think the salvation=works argument has any merit.
I was raised a strict SDA, and while I attend the churches, I have not become a member - due to the fact that:
1. I don't believe in some of the doctrines: majorly, the chief one regarding the 'state of the dead' is biblically false (read Ecclesiaties 3:21 and 12:6-7). Verse 6 describes a 'silver cord'. This is what attaches ones spirit to ones body. I believe that when God breathed the Breath of Life into Adam, that is when his spirit was created, which is beyond ordinary death as the body dies, but subject to God nevertheless...In the resurrection, the spirit, soul and body come together again ie: 'and her spirit returned to her' : Luk 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
2. I don't believe EG. White was a true prophet of God, by the biblical definition of a 'prophet'...She may have had some 'prophetic moments', but a substantial amount of her prophesies hidden under the carpet by her husband James White were false. ie: Message to the little flock, the angel who spoke 'King James english' who told her that Sabbath started 6pm every Friday and ended 6pm every Saturday 'changed his mind' to sunset to sunset...Remember, I was brought up with this 'insanity' regarding EG. White and it took a long time to decondition my thinking from believing every word from her mouth was 'gospel'... Its worth looking at: The White Lie by Walter Rea and although some of the statements may be exaggerations and/or extrapolations, there were some historical facts regarding her documented which were interesting reading.
3. I did not want a group of humans dictating to me whether I belonged to Christ or not, based in their 27 fundamental principles..., so I found a 7th day Baptist pastor who baptised me just purely into Christ - no man/woman - no creed - getting in the way..., as it should be...
Apart from these issues, I like the SDA's, as they seem to be the 'cleanest' biblically, that follow the bible word for word (as they best understand it) ... some don't believe in EG. White that look into it more deeply, and look more to the bible etc...I think they need to revolutionise some of their core beliefs and discard EG. White as a 'prophetess' and see her more as a mixed person who may have had some prophetic moments, but at other times did not ...
...It was quite amusing when documented facts came up, that her son was looking everywhere for her, and they eventually found her in some restaurant behind a screen consuming copious amounts of oysters with vinegar (made from scotch whisky then). She spoke of the evils of being addicted to vinegar, and I wondered how on earth can anyone be addicted to vinegar, and why is was 'evil'..., later I found out it was made with scotch whisky in those days....lolol...so funny....
...then there are plagurism issues where much of her alleged works were really by those of others..., it really does make one quite angry reading the truth about her...I just don't take notice of her ramblings pretty much.., I have seen how destructive the fanatical EG. White element can be..., but the SDA majority of principles are actually good and biblically sound, and they ARE good people ..., they just don't know the entire truth.
EG. White also believed 'black people' were the result of humans hybridizing with animals according to historical accounts, and this was apparently one reason they were not to be 'elders' or something along those lines. Similar to Mormon attitude on black people, early on in their history..., so I just don't have time for that kind of discrimination..., although the typical SDA does not have a clue about much if any of this..., you have to dig deep for this info...
I feel they are closest to Israel in a Christian sense as far as the common denominations go. I did go to some Messianic groups which was fabulous, even better --- as I love the feeling of 'true Israel' of God and love the Messianic worship, but unfortunately some did not keep Shabbat nor have a kosher diet, of the penticostal types that frequented these meetings, and some of the jews were very lasse faire with regards to principles involved, while others seemed more in keeping with them...
Pretty much these days, its hard to find an authentic church along the lines of a true Messianic Israel that is not into jew worshipping, that keeps the Word as written and/or understands it properly: and that is alive in Spirit and not part dead where the sermons just drag on...
Then you have the alleged 'spirit-filled' churches that negate the Word of God with words of the man Paul..., and who knows what spirits prevail in such churches, as there seems to be quite a mixture of true and false ones...., and one has to be wary. I cannot imagine the True God is speaking to them prophetically, that would not tell them about His true Principles and to keep them..., so I don't take any notice of alleged 'prophetic words' as being truly of God...
...really, in a way - there is a spiritual wilderness occurring, where the true Church is comprised of those seeking here and there for the Truth and fellowship accordingly, but never truly finding it - except in circumstances where God brings like minds together...
...however I do truly pray for a revival in the SDA movement, as I still feel a kinship with them, and they are good and Godly people overall...Operation Global Rain was a fabulous idea. A pity it was not supported by the SDA conferences globally....
1. I don't believe in some of the doctrines: majorly, the chief one regarding the 'state of the dead' is biblically false (read Ecclesiaties 3:21 and 12:6-7). Verse 6 describes a 'silver cord'. This is what attaches ones spirit to ones body. I believe that when God breathed the Breath of Life into Adam, that is when his spirit was created, which is beyond ordinary death as the body dies, but subject to God nevertheless...In the resurrection, the spirit, soul and body come together again ie: 'and her spirit returned to her' : Luk 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
2. I don't believe EG. White was a true prophet of God, by the biblical definition of a 'prophet'...She may have had some 'prophetic moments', but a substantial amount of her prophesies hidden under the carpet by her husband James White were false. ie: Message to the little flock, the angel who spoke 'King James english' who told her that Sabbath started 6pm every Friday and ended 6pm every Saturday 'changed his mind' to sunset to sunset...Remember, I was brought up with this 'insanity' regarding EG. White and it took a long time to decondition my thinking from believing every word from her mouth was 'gospel'... Its worth looking at: The White Lie by Walter Rea and although some of the statements may be exaggerations and/or extrapolations, there were some historical facts regarding her documented which were interesting reading.
3. I did not want a group of humans dictating to me whether I belonged to Christ or not, based in their 27 fundamental principles..., so I found a 7th day Baptist pastor who baptised me just purely into Christ - no man/woman - no creed - getting in the way..., as it should be...
Apart from these issues, I like the SDA's, as they seem to be the 'cleanest' biblically, that follow the bible word for word (as they best understand it) ... some don't believe in EG. White that look into it more deeply, and look more to the bible etc...I think they need to revolutionise some of their core beliefs and discard EG. White as a 'prophetess' and see her more as a mixed person who may have had some prophetic moments, but at other times did not ...
...It was quite amusing when documented facts came up, that her son was looking everywhere for her, and they eventually found her in some restaurant behind a screen consuming copious amounts of oysters with vinegar (made from scotch whisky then). She spoke of the evils of being addicted to vinegar, and I wondered how on earth can anyone be addicted to vinegar, and why is was 'evil'..., later I found out it was made with scotch whisky in those days....lolol...so funny....
...then there are plagurism issues where much of her alleged works were really by those of others..., it really does make one quite angry reading the truth about her...I just don't take notice of her ramblings pretty much.., I have seen how destructive the fanatical EG. White element can be..., but the SDA majority of principles are actually good and biblically sound, and they ARE good people ..., they just don't know the entire truth.
EG. White also believed 'black people' were the result of humans hybridizing with animals according to historical accounts, and this was apparently one reason they were not to be 'elders' or something along those lines. Similar to Mormon attitude on black people, early on in their history..., so I just don't have time for that kind of discrimination..., although the typical SDA does not have a clue about much if any of this..., you have to dig deep for this info...
I feel they are closest to Israel in a Christian sense as far as the common denominations go. I did go to some Messianic groups which was fabulous, even better --- as I love the feeling of 'true Israel' of God and love the Messianic worship, but unfortunately some did not keep Shabbat nor have a kosher diet, of the penticostal types that frequented these meetings, and some of the jews were very lasse faire with regards to principles involved, while others seemed more in keeping with them...
Pretty much these days, its hard to find an authentic church along the lines of a true Messianic Israel that is not into jew worshipping, that keeps the Word as written and/or understands it properly: and that is alive in Spirit and not part dead where the sermons just drag on...
Then you have the alleged 'spirit-filled' churches that negate the Word of God with words of the man Paul..., and who knows what spirits prevail in such churches, as there seems to be quite a mixture of true and false ones...., and one has to be wary. I cannot imagine the True God is speaking to them prophetically, that would not tell them about His true Principles and to keep them..., so I don't take any notice of alleged 'prophetic words' as being truly of God...
...really, in a way - there is a spiritual wilderness occurring, where the true Church is comprised of those seeking here and there for the Truth and fellowship accordingly, but never truly finding it - except in circumstances where God brings like minds together...
...however I do truly pray for a revival in the SDA movement, as I still feel a kinship with them, and they are good and Godly people overall...Operation Global Rain was a fabulous idea. A pity it was not supported by the SDA conferences globally....
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Actually, there are some similarities and direct connections between J. Smith and EGW, even though there is not a direct link of Smith to the Millerites or adventism.
1) Both Smith and EGW are considered to be prophets.
2) Ellen G White plagiarized from Smith's works.
(Compare Mrs. White's Writings with Joseph Smith)
3) Both Smith and EGW writings are considered inspired.
4) There is a Jeseph SMith Translation of the Bible and the Clear Word bibles.
5) Both Smith and EGW both had some involvement with the occult.
Untitled Document
6) Both claimed to receive info from an angel.
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...the understanding of the truth and value of the 7th day as the true Lords day, occurred in the SDA church via the influence of the 7th day Baptists..., who along with other early churches kept Saturday as the true Lords Day, and not the pagan day of the sun..., which became tradition at a later date...; so until that time the Adventists kept sunday until they were convicted otherwise to honouring the 7th day - which was a 'good thing'...Adventist means 'waiting for the advent of Christ' ie: His second coming; and they added '7th day' afterwards. Both good and sound principles which show sincerity....to God...
PS: keep in mind that although EG. White was not a true prophetess by biblical standards, many in some alleged spirit filled churches claim to be 'prophetic and are nothing of the kind, instead influenced by spirits ...
PS: keep in mind that although EG. White was not a true prophetess by biblical standards, many in some alleged spirit filled churches claim to be 'prophetic and are nothing of the kind, instead influenced by spirits ...
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It is hard to take one serious when they say to not eat shellfish and then they find her secretly munching on oysters. LOL
I do agree with you that it would be a good thing to see a revival in SDA and even all of Christendom, as it is badly needed today. The SDA are spot on in terms of essential christian doctrine. Too bad they can't get rid of soul sleep and "no hell".
I do agree with you that it would be a good thing to see a revival in SDA and even all of Christendom, as it is badly needed today. The SDA are spot on in terms of essential christian doctrine. Too bad they can't get rid of soul sleep and "no hell".
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Hey Brother,
In the book of Haggi
There is a traditional prophecy in the book of Haggi which like Nineveh they repented and God stayed the destruction that He promised to place upon them....People r going to c what they want to c..maybe its not the fullness of time in which God wants them to have the eye salve til other things come to past in their lives....we must pray for them and wait...God looketh on the inside...man on the outside.
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